Figure Skating Chat!- Page 22

[MTVMANN]

Posted: 2/15/06 at 2:54pm

BTW, how did you guys feel about Tatiana's comments?

I was very turned off by them and I could see that Maxim was embarrassed that she said that.

[sanda]

Posted: 2/15/06 at 2:55pm

Sigh, I never crushed on Michael Weiss. Sometimes he's painful to watch.

Scott Hamilton's straight, isn't he?

[MTVMANN]

Posted: 2/15/06 at 2:57pm

Yes and married with a child.

[sanda]

Posted: 2/15/06 at 2:57pm

That's just stupid.

I am Chinese but I don't care at all. I think Shen/Zhao deserve silver more than Zhang/Zhang. But Zhang Dan is so brave so it doesn't matter anymore.

Haha, I am happy that Zhang Dan's more impressive than the Champion now.

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Posted: 2/15/06 at 2:57pm

Tatiana was unbelievable when she said that. I wasn't surprised though because their coach, Oleg Vassiliev, has always been bitter. He even accused Hongbo Zhao of Shen/Zhao of faking his achilles tear. I bet you he was angry that the Zhangs stole their spotlight. However, I did see a bit of the warm-up and I did notice the Zhangs seemed to be getting in their way from the parts I saw. Like when Tatiana landed a jump and lady Zhang nearly ran into her after Tatiana's landing and they exchanged looks. With that said, there is no excuse for Tatiana's comments.

BTW, Jamie and David should not be the ones lecturing on sportsmanship considering they have no qualms with playing up the evil Russian thing to make themselves look better with the media.

[MTVMANN]

Posted: 2/15/06 at 3:04pm

Glad you agree! The Zhangs are lucky to have silver and maybe their SP helped them get that, because just going by the LP, Pang and Tong deserved to be up there......not them. I admire her courage, but that's not fair to give them something because of that. But definately not the biggest mistake in judging history!

As for Tatiana and Max, unless they stay in competition and change their style, they will only be remember for their fall at the 2004 Skate America and for being "Stock Russian"......consistant but nothing special.
Despite Elena and Anton not being the "true" winners of their the shared gold medal back in 2002, they were indeed Special!
Updated On: 2/15/06 at 03:04 PM

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 2/15/06 at 3:12pm

Delightful Dottie, do dish!

[sanda]

Posted: 2/15/06 at 3:15pm

I like Max. He looked like a nice and sweet guy.

I respect Tatiana's courage from recovering but she's just stupid to say things like that.

And their LP was too tight. I think they were too nervous. I feel their SP, but not LP. It's kind like they just did it routinely like a machine, trying to avoid mistake instead of performing with heart.

I cannot talk more about Zhang/Zhang because it is too painful to watch. But I am very proud of them.

Pang/Tong did a great job. But my favorite is still Shen/Zhao. Especially Zhao, he is so wonderful. I couldn't be more proud of him.

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 2/15/06 at 3:20pm

OK, someone please fill me in...what did Tat say?

I swear I really did watch the figure skating!!

[MTVMANN]

Posted: 2/15/06 at 3:21pm

Oh yes! They skated to Romeo and Juliet, but they certainly weren't Romeo and Juliet at all!

[MTVMANN]

Posted: 2/15/06 at 3:24pm

She was asked something like what was going through her mind when the Zhangs feel and she said "I felt no real special emotion." And then went on to say that the Chinese were overly aggressive in the warmup so maybe this was just "desert" for them to fall.

She was also cold to them on the stand.
I know that the girl Zhang crashed into her during the Warm-up at the 2005 WC too.


Basically it was just rude and very unsportsman like. As the winners you should be gracious and very thoughtful of those that you beat.

It's hard to understand anything that she says, but there was nothing really lost in translation, cause she knew what she was saying, but probably doesn't know that those comments don't "fly" with Americans, as they might Russians......and then again she might have known!

Updated On: 2/15/06 at 03:24 PM

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 2/15/06 at 3:26pm

Thanks. She comes across very cold, so this kind of remark does not surprise me.

[sanda]

Posted: 2/15/06 at 3:29pm

hehe, I can understand that she must be very mad. She finally won the gold yet the spotlight belonged to the silver.

Still stupid.

[MTVMANN]

Posted: 2/15/06 at 3:34pm

Well, it's happened before about the spotlight!
At the 2004 WC, Shen and Zhou were the big stars there, but they finished 4th in the SP(a fall or something by one of them), then WON the LP but could only finish 2nd because of their SP placement.

Anyways, even though T&M won, Shen and Zhou were still the big stars.

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Posted: 2/15/06 at 3:36pm

There was a rumor that T/M didn't want to do the 2004 Worlds exhibition despite the fact that they won. I heard they skated right after S/Z and they got such a huge roar that T/M didn't want to follow it.

[sanda]

Posted: 2/15/06 at 3:39pm

I remembered that the coach Yao Bin said that even Zhang/Zhang land that jump successfully it is still very hard to beat Russain.

I think T/M got a ridiculous high point for their LP. Well, maybe that is a payback from their accident one year before.

Zhang/Zhang is still very young. They made a great impression. I am very optimistic for their future.
Updated On: 2/15/06 at 03:39 PM

[MTVMANN]

Posted: 2/15/06 at 3:47pm

Well it would have been hard for them to beat the Russian, but for good reason. While I said that T&M are "stock Russian", the Zhangs are really just "Stock Chinese", for the most part. And I think that T & M have a little more to offer.

However, if Hue Shen did her jumps better and the duo skated with more speed, then they would really challenged them!

[MTVMANN]

Posted: 2/15/06 at 3:52pm

Did you guys catch the comment that Tom Hammond made to Scott Hamilton after Plushenko's Program?

Scott said something like, "The only ones he cares about are those who didn't pay to get in" refering to the judges!

Then Tom said "Did you pay to get in?"

BIG pause

Scott "Yes" and then Sandra chriped in "A life time of experience!"

[MTVMANN]

Posted: 2/15/06 at 3:54pm

VIETgrlTerifa, Tell me more about what you were saying about Sandra going away from figure skating.

The last programs I remember hearing she did were Tara Lipinski and Lu Chen at the 1998 Olympics.

Also for someone who worked with Tara and created programs about for her, she sure said mixed things about her!

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Posted: 2/15/06 at 3:55pm

Whoa! I missed that one! Good catch.

BTW, as boring as stock Russian could be, it's so technically superior than many other stock types. Zhang/Zhang are definitely stock Chinese and just aren't in T/M's league...quad or no.

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 2/15/06 at 3:58pm

MTVMANN, I did catch that last exchange on television last night (about paying).

I'm so glad Dick Button is there (just wondering what kind of special arrangement was made with ABC). It feels strange not seeing Peggy Fleming there, though.

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Posted: 2/15/06 at 3:58pm

VIETgrlTerifa, Tell me more about what you were saying about Sandra going away from figure skating.

She did an article some years ago...I believe 2004 where Bezic claimed to be done with the sport and no longer wanted to have anything to do with it. She then started justifying her decision by saying how no skater in the eligible world is worth her time (I'm paraphrasing here).

The truth is that no eligible skater has come to her in the last 8 years to do choreography, and she was recently fired from Stars on Ice for crappy choroegraphy and replaced by the superior Chris Dean. A lot of people think that article was a result of nobody wanting her no more, rather than the other way around.

And now, here she is...back to commentating...

[DottieD'Luscia]

Posted: 2/15/06 at 4:02pm

Didn't she used to choreograph Kristi Yamaguchi's programs at one time. To me, her choreography (Sandra's) was like a one trick pony.

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Posted: 2/15/06 at 4:04pm

I always found Bezic's choreography to be quite generic. The only exception was Lu Chen's Rachmaninoff LP from 1996 Worlds where I felt she did such a wonderful job, but wouldn't have been as good without Lulu.

That's why I had to laugh about her true comment about Joubert's SP being trite. As true as it may be, she devoted a lot of time doing trite programs in pro skating.

[VIETgrlTerifa]

Posted: 2/15/06 at 4:15pm

A poster named Trinity on Figure Skating Universe did an awesome job translating a Russian article about Kwan.

Here it is:

Michelle Kwan: The Bitter Final

On February 12th, five-time World champion Michelle Kwan flew from Torino to the US. A day before, she held the last press conference where she announced she is withdrawing from the Games due to injury.

It was impossibly hard to watch. Kwan was wearing black and only those who know her for many years could really imagine the deepness of her mourning – the skater never liked to wear black.

Nobody will likely understand why fate had no pity to this unique skater. It seems symbolic now: Kwan was getting ready to compete at her first Games in Lillehammer, but never took the ice. The story repeated at her last Olympics in Torino.

She was 13 in Lillehammer. A tiny child, unnoticeable outside the rink, transformed as soon as her blades touched the ice. She started doing a spiral, an element when skaters usually try to rest and save their strengths, and her spiral had so much power and passion, I couldn’t even take it. Only the greats skate like that.”

Around the same time, Irina Rodnina, who worked at the Lake Arrowhead skating center then, said,

“When Kwan is practicing on ice, it’s hard to believe that a person is able to work like that. We always thought that nobody in the World works as much as the Russian skaters. Comparing to Kwan, everybody else is completely lazy.”

Kwan won her first Worlds in 1996, beating Lu Chen by a tiny advantage. In a year, she lost her crown to Tara Lipinski. The loss was logical – Kwan started going through growing pains. Witnesses said Kwan was fainting at practices in America, as she tried to manage her growing weight. Still, she kept working like crazy.

She became the champion again in 1998.

A month before the Worlds, she had to go through her first Olympic tragedy. The skater came to Nagano as 100% favorite. A week earlier, she won the Nationals, and her performace was called the best in skating history. She received fifteen 6.0s for her two performances, and several judges couldn’t hold back the tears of admiration.

I remember Caroll and Kwan’s press conference after the short program in Nagano almost better than the competition itself. The coach talked about the art a lot, and how his students can “hear” the music and interpret the character. He was joking how her winning program cost him only $4.39 – that was the price of priced-down CD with Rachmaninov’s concert. At the end, he said, “We are not thinking about the gold at all!” The room was completely quiet and Kwan exhaled, “We are dreaming of it.”

When she didn’t win, maybe that was when the first little cracks came in between the skater and her coach. Maybe it was a little later. It’s pretty clear that in four years between Nagano and Salt Lake City, the mutual understanding in the perfect union was somehow disrupted.

I don’t remember which competition it was, but just like in Nagano, Caroll started talking at the press conference after a performance that wasn’t too good for Kwan. He said that this is sport and he thinks everything is all right. Kwan took the mike and yelled out, “Nothing is right. Nothing!”

They split before the SLC Games. Before that, Kwan won the Worlds twice – in 2000 and 2001. She fired her choreographer Lori Nichols who created beautiful programs during Michelle’s entire career. The reason was easy to guess. At some point, Kwan probably thought her entourage wasn’t supporting her enough and that meant working together from that point on was pointless.

In Salt Lake City, Kwan lost again…

It often happens in skating for a skater to fail some important jump in the beginning of the free program and start chasing it (as a rule, with no success), forgetting about everything else, and try it again and again. Kwan’s decision to stay for another four-year cycle reminded just that – a race for a phantom of the Olympic gold. She started working with Scott Williams, but after winning another World title in 2003, she left him as well. Rafael Arutunian became her new coach. Before the Olympic season, Kwan also turned to Tatiana Tarasova for help. Tarasova agreed, “When a skater wants to get a result so much, it impossible to say no.”

Three of them worked the whole summer. One day, Kwan was in the locker room with Tarasova, and suddenly told the coach, “Maybe it’s not normal and it’s very hard to explain but I still want to compete very much. I think I’ll never find the same thing that made sense for my whole life in any professional show. I’m afraid that my life would lose any sense.”

After hearing that, Tarasova cried.

Kwan did a humongous job that summer. The new system smashed her. Everything that skater learn for almost twenty years, wasn’t up even to level two under the new rules. At the age when many skaters are finishing their career, Michelle had to learn many elements again.

It worked. Before the season started, Kwan was constantly inviting the USFSA experts to attend her practices and they confirmed – there were no weak spots in her programs.

And then she got injured and that took away several months.

The American had health problems before. She took any pity on herself at the practices. This and constantly being in the cold surroundings led to arthrosis of pelvic joints. In Dortmund, it seriously bothered her for the first time. The story repeated itself in Moscow. Kwan’s mother resisted any doctor recommendation for the treatment, “First, you have to give birth to healthy babies, and after that you can take strong medicine as much as you want.”
Acupuncture treatments weren’t effective. They are not meant for such pain and for a body tortured by such pressure.

It started again in Torino. That Alpine climate often is dangerous for rheumatic problems. Maybe Kwan should’ve come to the Games even earlier – nine hours time difference requires at least nine days of adjustment. In this case, Michelle would’ve had a chance to go through it under much calmer work regimen, and later take her body smoothly to the practicing the way she is used to. She dived deep into the Games not caring for her ailment. She was waking up at night as she couldn’t take the pain but she forbid herself to even think about not going to the Olympic ice one more time.

The Opening Ceremony was the last drop. After standing in the cold for several hours, Michelle realized it was over.

She came back to the rink next morning after another sleepless night. With some inhuman power, she made herself to attempt a triple jump. She fell. She started over again, and collapsed on the ice. After the third unsuccessful attempt, she glided to the exit barely moving her feet. And than she held the press-conference…

I came to the press center on Monday morning and opened the Olympic reference system on the computer to print out Kwan’s information. The figure skating great wasn’t listed under “athlete’s biographies” anymore.

Updated On: 2/15/06 at 04:15 PM