Finished Deathly Hallows? SPOILERS WILL PROBABLY ABOUND.- Page 4

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 7/22/07 at 3:36pm

I’m a little confused as to what some people wanted from this tale. This woman has woven a fantastical myth for the ages, and one which hopefully is meant to inspire. You want cynicism and despair? Don’t look to her works, look in a mirror.

Being sort of unsure about the epilogue doesn't mean that we wanted cynicism and despair. I even said that I loved the epilogue conceptually because Harry and his friends weren't going to be damaged by the war when the only things they ever fought for were freedom and the safety of family and friends. It's perfect to have our final look at those characters, especially Harry, be them with what they always wanted and showcasing the highest ideals of the series. I just think that it could have been written with a little more clarity and elaboration.

If you ask me why I said, before reading the book, that I thought that Harry would die, my answer would be the same as the reason that he walked willingly to meet his fate once he knew it (which was altogether gut-wrenching to read). If Voldemort was right about anything, it was that Harry isn't the type to let other people continue to die for him. There's no way I'd expect anything less. The fact that Rowling delivered this willingness without sacrificing the character's life and without my feeling as a reader that it was somehow cheating is really a testament to her skill in setting up this series.

But he DID, really. It's only since Harry's blood was used to bring back Voldemort at the end of GoF that Voldemort started preserving part of his soul, correct? (I can't double-check because both my parents have to get through the book...) But if I'm remember that correctly, then up until the end of the fourth book (with the infamous "gleam of triumph"), Dumbledore WAS planning for Harry to die, believing him to be the final Horcrux.

Entirely the way I saw it, too. I think that Dumbledore was absolutely fascinating in this book, because.... even if Harry hadn't have the protection of his mother's blood and would have died, I'm honestly not sure how Dumbledore's plans for him would've changed. He might have been determined to do it himself and therefore less reckless with something like the Resurrection Stone, but if it had to come down to Voldemort and Harry... But I love Dumbledore beyond words, and believe that he loves Harry enough that he'd find another way or else be completely straight with Harry about the way it would have to go. Because the case was that Harry had to believe that he'd certainly die, it makes sense that Dumbledore only gave him part of the story. I'm so pleased with that as an explanation for the much-speculated-about "gleam of triumph." Updated On: 7/22/07 at 03:36 PM

[Craig]

Posted: 7/22/07 at 5:18pm

Finished. I thought it was pretty ok. I know.. you all hate me for just using the word OK. There were some incredible parts. I thought there was a lot of padding which, for me, wasn't really all that exciting nor neccessary. Didn't care much for the epilogue as it was written.

I did love the final chapters from the moment that harry goes to see snape's memories through the final confrontation.

As I felt with the other books (after reading #2) - they are somewhat formulaic. Not that it's a bad thing, but for me, not terribly exciting. You could almost skip reading about 500 or so pages of every book and just read the last 100-200 and get the entire plotline. In short, it all boils down to conversations with Dumbledore where the "truth" is revealed (and in this book, with Snape's memories)

But overall, a good book and what we've come to expect.

Posted: 7/22/07 at 5:27pm

DONE! I loved it. I'm so sad it's all over, though! I was pretty amazed about Snape. I feel stupid. It was a really incredible way to end everything. I cried the most when Harry was walking into the forest at the end. Being with the ones he loved and walking into his death was so amazing to me.

And the ones she killed off? ARGH! I'm so upset.

[Taryn]

Posted: 7/22/07 at 7:20pm

The fascinating thing about Dumbledore is that, when Harry talks to him, he seems so disgusted at his teenage idea of "for the greater good" and such. Yet it's an ideal that he KEPT. He loved Harry, I believe that, but he was certainly ready to allow his sacrifice if it meant destroying Voldemort.

And from what we've seen from Snape's memory, Dumbledore was completely prepared--in fact, INSTRUCTED SNAPE--to NOT TELL HARRY he had to willingly sacrifice himself until pretty much the last possible moment. He's a manipulator, really. He knows exactly how to work people. When he was younger, he obviously did it for his own benefit--not with malice, necessarily, but rather because he thought rather highly of his abilities and his intelligence and he liked others to share that opinion. Yet we see how he's grown older and wiser and learned to use this talent for...the greater good. He never really lets that ideal go, he just doesn't abuse it so much.

[Ariella]

Posted: 7/22/07 at 8:20pm

I finished it last night... it's strange how sad I feel. Having grown up with Harry, I suppose this is almost the end of an era (the movies don't count), and it's strange to finally have resolution to the story. I'm happy, very, very happy that Harry survived because I felt there was a good chance he wouldn't. I spent the last chapters crying my eyes out, especially the "Forest" chapter. The ending gives a nod to people who wanted Harry to die and those who didn't, but I'm certainly glad he ended up alive.

I liked the complications Rowling added to Dumbledore's character. While always something of an enigma, in the past books Dumbledore's loyalties and ideals were never in question, and Rowling smashed the archetype good wizard figure she had built Dumbledore up to be. All of the main characters are relatively complex, and I'm glad Rowling saw fit to delve into greater detail with Dumbledore. Along those lines, I was satisfied with the explanation for Snape's behavior - he remains neither good nor bad, yet his actions have finally become justifiable.

I'm in agreement with Siren about the epilogue. After all the characters have been through, it was wonderful to see them happy, living the lives they'd only dreamed of (and with the right people, too!). All of the ideals and morals Rowling brought up throughout the books manifested themselves in this happy ending. In this case, something that could be construed as slightly cliched is highly preferable to continued suffering. Rowling hardly let us off lightly in this book, anyway.

[Ourtime992]

Posted: 7/22/07 at 8:59pm

The problem I had with the epilogue is that it just wasn't terribly compelling or well-written. The chapter before it -- the end of the story proper -- was fantastic and its final sentence "I've had enough trouble for a lifetime" allowed us to reflect back in an instant on 7 books worth of adventures. In short, it was the perfect note to end on.

The epilogue had a wonderful sentiment, and I get what she was trying to do in writing it, but it felt woefully out of place at the end of the novel. We all know Rowling wrote that chapter several years ago, and though I'm sure she rewrote it and sent it past her editors as she completed Deathly Hallows, it felt like her writing of 7 years ago, not the more mature style she has developed since then.

I don't have a problem with her leaving some questions unanswered -- that's part of the fun. It's just that after a beautiful composition, she added a "p.s." that didn't quite fit.

[midnghtdolphin]

Posted: 7/22/07 at 9:08pm

i thought the last word was supposed to be scar.

[DG]

Posted: 7/22/07 at 9:15pm

Obviously, everyone has diferent sensabilities and wants/needs/desires. For me, after everything that had happened and been addressed over the long course of this saga, I was comforted and perfectly happy to have the coda be a fairy-tale ending. She did enough work to present themes and situations for awareness, growth and learning - leaving me with the 'happily ever after' was like a mother's kiss as she turned out the lights. I was very content.

[Ariella]

Posted: 7/22/07 at 9:46pm

Right. I would have felt incredibly bereft if Rowling had chosen to conclude the book on a dark note, and I don't think a grim ending would have proved anything. The epilogue was so reassuring, and the reader almost needs that reassurance after the intensity of the book.

And I loved how Harry and Ginny named their kids.
Updated On: 7/22/07 at 09:46 PM

[singingwendy]

Posted: 7/22/07 at 9:54pm

The epilogue served two purposes for me:

1. To show that Harry got what he wanted most of all---a family.

2. To remind the readers that this was a series originally written for children. Yes, we can get all deep in our debates about it's morality and sense of right and wrong, but the simple fact is that this is a book for children, and children's stories rarely end with no hope. This gave us enough of a glimpse into Harry's future to see that he's a normal, well adjusted adult who's biggest concern now is how his children will do in school. Calamity will come, but in the end, the world will go on.


A few other things I really liked in the book

--When they were told about the Deathly Hallows, and Ron, Hermione and Harry all picked a different object as the one they would most desire. In essence, Harry and his friends are the Deathly Hallows.

--That Voldemort died of his own curse, and not really at Harry's hand. Had Harry actually said the killing curse, I think the "happy ending" epilogue would not have happened.

[StephenSondheimWHOO]

Posted: 7/22/07 at 9:56pm

I loved it! It really a lot to me, at my age. Because it sort of represents a stage in my life as the 1st one came out when I was 3 and this one is coming out as I am about to become a teenager, the books in a way represent my young childhood, so it was hard to see them end. Anyway, I thought she did an amazing job. I haven't cried at a book since "where the red fern grows" when I was REALLY little, but I was crying a lot here. I cried when Dobby died (sooo sad,) when Lupin, Tonks, and Fred died, in the whole Snape pensieve scene, and when it was over.
On the topic of the epilouge, i didn't think it was very wel-writtin except I l=just loved the line where harry says something along the lines of "your named after 2 hogwarts headmasters, one of the was a slytherin and he was about the ravest person I ever knew" to albus, that was a great line.

[StephenSondheimWHOO]

Posted: 7/22/07 at 9:56pm

I loved it! It really a lot to me, at my age. Because it sort of represents a stage in my life as the 1st one came out when I was 3 and this one is coming out as I am about to become a teenager, the books in a way represent my young childhood, so it was hard to see them end. Anyway, I thought she did an amazing job. I haven't cried at a book since "where the red fern grows" when I was REALLY little, but I was crying a lot here. I cried when Dobby died (sooo sad,) when Lupin, Tonks, and Fred died, in the whole Snape pensieve scene, and when it was over.
On the topic of the epilouge, i didn't think it was very wel-writtin except I l=just loved the line where harry says something along the lines of "your named after 2 hogwarts headmasters, one of the was a slytherin and he was about the ravest person I ever knew" to albus, that was a great line.

[EponineThenardier]

Posted: 7/22/07 at 10:11pm

midnightdolphin, she mentioned in an interview not too long ago that scar was no longer the last word.


OK..............Woowww. Let's see here.

Big fat gloat moment for me:
I'm a proud to say that throughout the series I guessed Snape's motives off the bat. I actually wrote down a prediction after I read the first book as too what was going to happen in the last book. One of which was Snape was in love with Harry Mama. WHoot! I rock! I also correctly guessed that he was the Half Blood Prince before that book was released. I couldn't see any other way around it.


I started crying at Dobby's death. Holy cow! I didn't truly believe that Moody was dead...until the end. I didn't think she'd pick off one of the twins...two of my favorite characters, sooo sad! Also so sad about Hedwig. I'm guessing she couldn't fit him smoothly into the plot since they are in hiding and therefore got rid her her. Also it fits that he had Hedwig while he was at Hogwarts, and since he left Hedwig died.

Also I was CERTAIN that Neville was going to kill Bellatrix as much as Harry was going to destroy Voldy. It really fit, since she tortured his parents into their current state and the interaction between Neville and Bella in the fifth book. Can't complain about Mrs. Weasley though, hahaa!

The line about Snape being the bravest person that Harry ever knew, had me in pieces...what a great last word about Snape. My favorite character by the way. Someone mentioned in the first page that they can't wait to see Alan Rickman do his thing for this film...MEEEE EITHERERRRR! Although I must say I wished he was in more than the last 50 pages or so (not counting the first character). Also the whole doe thing. God I love Snape! I do also wish that he had died protecting Harry as well...however as someone mentioned...it was all for Lily.

I originally thought Draco might turn and save Harry and surely Lucius would can it. But I ADORE what JKR did, having the Malfoy family all bare witness, alive, at the end as to what had happened. Out of place and unsure of what the future was to hold...So brillant!

I'm pissed about the Tonks/Lupin death clarity. It wasn't as much of an impact because Harry didn't witness their deaths and so as readers we don't either, and also because I was unsure as to their fate originally. I did know however that once they were dead that Harry HAD to live because he needed to be there for Teddy Lupin as Godfather, since Sirius couldn't be there for Harry very long.

The whole Hallows and items thing confused the crap outta me. I thought for a while that Ron, Hermione and Harry would take the place of the three brothers in the story. Ron being the one with the wand gets himself killed. Hermione getting the stone and brings back Ron but then kills herself to be with him. Of course Harry having the cloak. But that didn't turn out.

I thought Hermione's sparky purse was about the coolest thing ever. Haha.

I was surprised that Dumbledore didn't come back in the form of a phoenix.

I LOVED Ron and Hermione's kiss after Ron yells that someone should save the house elves. Pitch perfect. Love those two...

Also the first time I verbally cheered was when Percy came stumbling back into Hogwarts. Yaaaaaay!!

Also sad about the lack of Sirus...so what if he's DEAD?! Waaah!

Must give a shout out to Mary Grand Pre and her BEAUTIFUL drawings. I love the pictures at the beginning of each chapter. Especially loved getting to each new chapter and seeing the pictures for the first time.

And finally I reaaaallly wanted a young adult Snape and Lily kiss during the Pensive scenes. Reaaaalllly bad. Maybe they'll stick it in the movie...? I bet people would flip out though since it wouldn't be true to the books.



I will undoubtedly write more later.

EDIT: Adding to StephenSondheimWHOO, I started the books when I was 11, the same age as Harry at the beginning. I'm now 21. I certainly also feel like I've grown up with Mr. Potter. Thanks Jo Rowling!
Updated On: 7/22/07 at 10:11 PM

[mlsheehan]

Posted: 7/22/07 at 10:13pm

Ok, I finished this book this afternoon. I really loved it. One of the best in the series, in my opinion. Although I thought it bogged down in the middle after a terrific beginning. The ending brought it back on track.

A question...

What are your thoughts on the significance of the crying baby in the scene at King's Cross?

[Atrias]

Posted: 7/22/07 at 10:19pm

What are your thoughts on the significance of the crying baby in the scene at King's Cross?

I believe that was the piece of Voldemort's soul that was in Harry.

[sweetestsiren]

Posted: 7/22/07 at 10:22pm

What are your thoughts on the significance of the crying baby in the scene at King's Cross?

I thought that it was the piece of Voldemort's soul that Harry had been harboring inside him, finally separated. The description was definitely a throwback to Voldemort's temporary form in Goblet of Fire, and the fact that Dumbledore and eventually Harry decide that it's beyond all help fit with that. Someone else suggested that it was Voldemort's soul entire, or what's left of it, as he was also unconscious at the time. Either way, it was a good way to indicate that not much is lost when Voldemort dies, given that his soul is damaged beyond help or repair.

[caitiesus1522]

Posted: 7/22/07 at 10:24pm

The crying baby was Voldemort's soul, why Dumbledore said that was hopeless now. It makes sense to me because Harry and Voldemort wake up at the same time. It also was cool to see what it was like when a piece of soul was lost

[kelzama]

Posted: 7/22/07 at 10:46pm

Four pages and no one's mentioned the blatant Christian imagery especially in this book. Wonder how the religious right will react, what with all the book banning and such?

--The selfless, yet entirely human, young man destined to sacrifice himself for the greater good yet retaining the free will to choose not to.

--The presence of spirits, existing on a higher plane who've won a place of honor and respect because of their valour and faith on earth, that can be called on for strength in moments of need.

--The existence of a supremely evil force that can be defeated only by faith, unity and love.

--The Afterlife, where the good are restored and happy, the evil are condemned to eternal suffering.

Et Cetera

Regarding the epilogue:
JKR's storytelling and writing got more complex with each novel. The epilogue goes right back to the very simple style that Sorcerer's Stone was written in. At first, I felt it seemed almomst like an afterthought; upon a second read, I decided it was right where it needed to be.

Regarding unanswered questions:
I remember hearing that there'd be a character who, for the first time, would produce magic late in life under extreme circumstances. I had been convinced that would be Petunia; clearly I was mistaken, but I don't recall any other character who did so. Anyone else?

[mlsheehan]

Posted: 7/22/07 at 11:02pm

Thanks Atrias, sweetestsiren, and caitiesus. I didn't make that connection. I was thinking the presence of evil which would still be around, even if Voldemort was vanquished, but I like your idea.

[istillbelieve24601]

Posted: 7/22/07 at 11:15pm

Kelzama, I was wondering the exact same thing about the character who was supposed to perform magic....

I'm too tired (I'm a very fast reader and finished the book by 7:00) on Saturday to write more, if anyone cares enough to see my thoughts I advise them to check out musicals.net (SN: Eponine93) I'm too lazy to copy and paste right now. I just want to say I'm glad that I wasn't the only person who cried my eyes out while I read the book. I didn't cry as much as I did when Dumbledore died (I was so shocked, thought that Harry was doomed, that I cried so hard I had to put down the book for about half an hour) but I was really upset. Dobby and Hedwig's deaths both affected me, even though I knew that Hedwig had to die and that Dobby was happier dying for Harry Potter than living without him. As for Sirius and Snape, I was upset at both of their deaths but I had expected it from the moment I read the third book when I was eight. Tonks and Fred... those were shockers. I admit I cried both for them. Finally, that beautiful chapter where Harry walks in the forest made me sob so hard.

Has anyone noticed that lately there seems to be a theme of redemption in pop culture? First in Spring Awakening (I know it was based on the 1891 play, but that doesn't explain why it's so popular recently) the main character is about to kill himself when the two people he loves most comes from the dead, tells him that they are always with him, then convinces him not to kill himself. In Grey's Anatomy... the main character almost dies, is in limbo-land with people who tell that they are always with her (or her best friend) and then comes back. In Harry Potter... the main character (walking to his death) is told by those he loves most who are gone that they love him, are always with him, he dies and then comes back. It doesn't take a genious to see a trend here, which probably can be carried over to many more modern works of entertainment or art (depends on how you classify them...)

[Roninjoey]

Posted: 7/22/07 at 11:16pm

Well Dumbledore said that killing rips the soul apart. I'm assuming that the soul can eventually repair itself in JK Rowling's world, but Voldermort has done more damage to his soul than anyone else. Because of what he did to himself, I think he's beyond all help.

I totally predicted one of the twins was going to die and nobody believed me.

I was wondering who the character who did magic late in life was too. I didn't notice anything.

[singingwendy]

Posted: 7/22/07 at 11:19pm

Could she have meant Aberforth Dumbledore and his helping out Harry and the Order with the passageway in his pub?

[istillbelieve24601]

Posted: 7/22/07 at 11:21pm

I don't think it could have been Aberforth, because it's mentioned as early as the fourth book about his inappropriate charms on a goat, which definitely would require magic...

I was thinking maybe someone who is redemptive and switches sides and does something bad. The only character who really switches sides and brings out a part of his personality he had all along, something no one guessed, was Kreacher.

[singingwendy]

Posted: 7/22/07 at 11:26pm

Well then, possibly Percy, who joins the Order at the very end? (Not that I think Percy was ever truly on Voldemort's side, but eventually being part of the MInistry WAS being on Voldemort's side.)


Or Mrs. Weasley? I mean, up into this point we had no idea she had the power to kill Bellatrix. Updated On: 7/22/07 at 11:26 PM

[DG]

Posted: 7/22/07 at 11:29pm

"I remember hearing"

Nothing exists until it is made real. There are probably many ideas that came and went - and God knows there's been MANY hypothesis by fans.