How did it all begin? (the universe) I'm serious

I often try to think about when there was nothing. I mean before there was heaven, stars, planets-ANYTHING. I don't think the human mind is able to imagine "nothing". I know I can't imagine it, no matter how hard I try.

I know there is the belief that God created the heavens and earth, etc. But what was here before God came? Don't say he was always here, because there had to be the day before he arrived (lol).

And for those who don't believe that God created everything-those who believe in evolution, or the big bang theory-what was here before that happened? there had to be one day when the first tiny little atom or the first star, or the heavens arrived. Before that day, what was here, and how did the first tiny atom appear, and where did it come from?

I really spend a lot of time thinking about this. I have this discussion with many friends and the only answer I've gotten is "It was always here." I don't know any astronomers-I'll bet they have an answer.

If anyone wants to give some thought to this I'd love to hear different ideas.

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thanks for your reply, justthefacts. Isn't it perplexing? If you try to imagine nothing, your brain simply can't go there. As I do believe in one God, I believe it to be spiritual, and lives in all of us. So that isn't how I think everything started. Scientifically, can we ever know what happened? It was too long ago, to say the least. I'm dying to hear what an astronomer believes.

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I've made no secret of my religious beliefs around here, so it shouldn't be a huge shock that I believe in a God who created the universe.

I always go to a Martin Luther quote - "Your thoughts of God are too human." Frankly, I don't think that the whole concepts of time and space in their infinity are things that we as human creatures are able to even begin to wrap our minds around. Still, it's stretching to try to comprehend it all - it really leaves me with a sense of wonder.

Those are just my musings... but I always love to just sit and listen to what others have to say about the topic. Thoughts of the scope of our existence are really quite fascinating and make for some pretty interesting chats.

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Updated On: 2/20/06 at 11:13 AM

Aigoo - I call myself a Creatilutionist, also believing that the two theories can coexist.

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I always thought the big bang theory stated that there was a collision with the sun, am I right? Even if it wasn't the sun, there was a collision or a breaking away from something that was already there. I want to know how the originals got there.

Slim thanks so much for the recommendations-I'll look into them for sure!

Justthefacts-Very interesting. So you're saying that this universe, inside its bubble, isn't the only thing that may exist? That around the bubble is the nothing that came before? Stilll-how did our universe start? who and what came out of where when there was nothing, and started something?

You could actually laugh at my questions, the way I'm asking them!

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But Elphaba, my thread is about how it all started.

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I would never laugh at such questions. They're the most important questions there are.

If I remember (and I think I did read "The Origins of the Universe" - if it's the one I'm thinking of - it may not be, since I read it about 20 years ago) Anyway, if I remember, the Big Bang theory suggests that all matter at one time existed compacted into a tiny space - an infintitessimally tiny pin****we couln't imagine the smallness of - and it became so dense and so superheated that it suddenly exploded (the Big Bang). With that explosion all the particles and subparticles of matter spread out from that tiny origin, at first evenly distributed. The farther the particles went they began to slow down and to cool off. It was a rippling out effect. The first element was hydrogen - hydrogen is the simplest element, having only 1 proton, 1 electron and 1 neutron. All the oldest stars of the universe are hydrogen stars. But as the particles cooled and slowed and fell into each other they formed heavier elements - for instance helium with 2 of everything. Helium stars are not "first stars", I believe. The elements get progressively more dense as their atomic counts get higher. Anyway, this is the way the stars, and then the galaxies and everything else formed. Where we are now is in some outer ripple that is still moving away from that first point of origin, still slowing and cooling. Astronomers speculate on how far we will continue to ripple out. So your question, I guess, would be where did that first subparticle of matter come from that eventually grew into the tiny pin****that exploded? But can something just "pop into being" out of nothing?

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Updated On: 2/20/06 at 12:09 PM

*brain implodes*

Jane, I do believe you and I have more in common that I thought. Also in my mind is where does it all end? I mean, the universe can't be infinite... there must be an end at some point, right? Or is it all one big circle, and whatever direction you go on eventually you end up in the same place?

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Oh my God! Thus the idiocy of censorship has just intruded intself into my quasiscientific explanation of the Big Bang Theory. (By the way, isn't it a miracle THAT came through unbowlderized? Otherwise, we would see the Big **** Theory.) I tried to describe the tiny point of origin - as many scientists have before me, by the way - as a (I have to misspell here) pinprik. You know, as in prikking your finger with a pin? Sheeesh!

I think we answered the question as to what existed before the origin of time and space and matter. Censorship. Censorship comes directly to you from the Great Void. Or should I says, "Censorship ***** directly to you from the Great Void."?

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right Jane, I got that........it was just never something I thought about. As mentioned I figured we're here now......so what do we do with it all???

I probably wasn't clear...just woke...on way to Starbucks

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Justthefacts-you know what I'm thinking, yay! Your explanation, starting with the pinprck makes sense from that point on, but as we both are wondering-who put that atom there? I truly don't think our question can be answered, and being a virgo who has to analyze and know who what and where about everything, I just can't be satisfied. There are many who don't need to know about this topic, or don't care, but I find myself wondering about it so often that I needed to bring it up?

As for the censoring-I think there is a list of words and no matter how innocently they are used-even if they have legitimate "OTHER" meaning, such as the work prk, they'll automatically be deleted.

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thanks. elphaba, I appreciate what you've just said.

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Thanks, Jane2. It's a good thing there was no censorship at the beginning of all things, isn't it? I have Mercury in Virgo, which gives me the same thought processes as yours, and Saturn in Virgo - which causes me to go into things very deeply. Unfortuneatly, I also have Venus in Virgo, which means I have no love life - probably because I'm too cautious and analyze things to death.

Best12Bars - I forgot about that - anti-matter. Is that still a theory or has its existence been proven? I suppose speculation on the nature of anti-matter might bring us closer to out goal.

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