Larry Kramer: People Who Use PrEP are Cowardly

[Kad]

Posted: 5/22/14 at 5:47pm

"On the topic of the controversial PrEP approach to having safe sex, he says “anybody who voluntarily takes an antiviral every day has got to have rocks in their heads. There’s something to me cowardly about taking Truvada instead of using a condom. You’re taking a drug that is poison to you, and it has lessened your energy to fight, to get involved, to do anything.”
Article here.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 5/22/14 at 9:19pm

Hero visionary firebrand and all the other stuff that's going to get trotted out when The Normal Heart airs.

There are a lot of things Larry Kramer is and a lot more things he is not. He is not kind compassionate or empathetic.

His voice is irrelevant in any discussion of prevention in 2014.

Goodnight Larry. They made your fricking movie.

[South Fl Marc]

Posted: 5/22/14 at 9:27pm

There are some things I admire about Larry Kramer, but not much.

He was a great activist, but there is a reason that all organizations he has been a part of have distanced themselves from him.

"The Normal Heart" is a great play, but the rest of his writings - plays, books, screenplays, letters - are self indulgent crap.

As far as being a person , having met him several times, Larry Kramer is a TWIT.



Updated On: 5/22/14 at 09:27 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/22/14 at 10:48pm

Little known fact: Larry Kramer and Arthur Laurents were great friends for decades...until Larry said something to Arthur that Arthur felt was "unforgivable." (NOTE: Arthur frequently said unforgivable things to his friends, the minute anyone said anything back, Arthur would deem it unforgivable and not speak to that friend for days/months/years.)

But after Larry said whatever it was he said to Arthur, they never spoke again. Arthur went to his grave not having forgiven his good friend Larry Kramer for whatever it was Larry may have said.

I doubt if Larry even remembers...

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 5/22/14 at 10:51pm

Larry? Not remember?

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 5/22/14 at 10:53pm

In more than two decades of dating, I've only seriously dated two positive guys, and both long before PrEP was a thing. I always wondered what I'd do if I were ever faced with the prospect of another relationship with someone who was positive. I've seen what HIV drugs do to people, and I think I probably would chose condoms over Truvada. It's not a judgement on anyone who would choose it, but I've been through chemo twice, and while I know it's not the same, it's the only frame of reference I have when I consider what the effects of a powerful antiviral must feel like.

All that said, cowardly wouldn't be the first word that popped into my head when it comes to people who use PrEP. That Larry is a crazy old heifer.




Updated On: 5/22/14 at 10:53 PM

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 5/22/14 at 10:57pm

What PRS said.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 5/23/14 at 6:28am

Kramer may have reasonable objections to this kind of PREP use. But I'm not sure how "cowardly" - perhaps the most ineptly used word - applies in this instance.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/23/14 at 8:24am

The man is 78 years old, was in a hospice for most of the past year and was always intemperate with his speech. He even wrote several plays and novels with characters based on his inability to temper his speech. Why would anyone expect him, at this late date, to cease being the Crazy Cassandra? I'm just surprised that he didn't go into one of his "They're killing themselves, killing themselves" rants.

Updated On: 5/23/14 at 08:24 AM

[Kad]

Posted: 5/23/14 at 9:51am

I think there's a legitimate and reasonable argument to be had about the use of PrEP possibly creating resistant strains of the virus, and a legitimate and reasonable argument to be had about taking such strong medication to prevent rather than to treat.

But Kramer decided to opt out of legitimate and reasonable decades ago.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 5/23/14 at 10:26am

I think there are reasonable and legitimate discussions to be had about all the aspects of PrEP. I don't necessarily see why they have to be arguments. And it would be great if the discussions about PrEP included the voices of the researchers and doctors who have been working on this for years. I suppose the exact same point about drug resistant virus could be made about treatment at all, couldn't it?

As for Larry and anybody else in this world who prefaces the a-hole things he does and says with "I'm an a-hole, but…" in no way diminishes the fact that whatever comes out of his mouth next is coming out of the mouth of an a-hole.

And PJ, I feel like we are long past the time where "Oh that Larry" is enough to let him off the hook for spouting information that could actually harm people, especially his allegedly beloved gay community. His misinformation about prevention tools is right down there with Jenny McCarthy's pronouncements about vaccines. Not cute. Not helpful. Dangerous.

Updated On: 5/23/14 at 10:26 AM

[Kad]

Posted: 5/23/14 at 10:52am

"I suppose the exact same point about drug resistant virus could be made about treatment at all, couldn't it?"

There isn't much precedence for the regular taking of an antiretroviral in an uninfected induvidual, to my knowledge. Vaccines aside, I can't think of many instances in which anyone would take an antibiotic/antiviral/etc. on a regular basis (not short-term, like following a surgery, traveling, or so on) if they were not already infected or at imemdiate risk of infection.

But since HIV is, at present, incapable of being vaccinated, having an at-risk population that is constantly under dosage of one of the few reliable means of treatment justifiably leads to concern for further mutation.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 5/23/14 at 11:00am

There is quite a lot of precedence for prophylaxis treatment for many things that are deadly in humans. There has also been a lot of research done on PrEP with a lot of dedicated members of the gay community putting themselves on the front lines in clinical trials. But you know, a 78 year old man using his 1985 brain has chosen to call those men cowards.

Again, not just not helpful, HARMFUL.

[Kad]

Posted: 5/23/14 at 11:09am

Oh, I totally agree- Kramer does more harm than good with his warped perception of reality. He's pretty sex-negative and, despite his position as an activist, often strikes me as dealing with a lot of self-hatred for being gay.

(Not to mention he's an aggressive self-promoter and horrendously unaware of his own financial privilege).

Updated On: 5/23/14 at 11:09 AM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 5/23/14 at 11:16am

Self-loathing! And loathing of others. And loathing of pleasure. Obsessed with snatching defeat from the jaws of victory.

There is a LOT of work going on with PrEP and it's hard to keep up. The news is good.

[Kad]

Posted: 5/23/14 at 11:23am

I kind of enjoyed seeing Streisand strike back at Kramer following his continued attacks on her.
"Larry had the rights for the last 15 years years and he couldn't get it made, either. Those are the facts."

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 5/23/14 at 11:29am

I felt bad for her and wished she never said anything. Because there is zero point in trying to engage with Larry, it's a lose-lose proposition. And he's so crafty in his attacks. When he was foaming at the mouth in his public feud with her, he not only outed Barbra's son but announced to the world that he's HIV positive. Because, you know, Jason was fair game. Naturally, it didn't help Kramer achieve his desired outcome at all. But it put Barbra in a place where she had to defend herself against his attacks and to decide to not bring up that low blow and put more attention on it and never mention it again.

If I were her I would have just said, "I'm so glad the movie got made."

Updated On: 5/23/14 at 11:29 AM

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 5/23/14 at 4:34pm

""The Normal Heart" is a great play, but the rest of his writings - plays, books, screenplays, letters - are self indulgent crap. "

You don't like the film of Women in Love or, *cough* Lost Horizon?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 5/23/14 at 5:18pm

Just how many gay men does Larry Kramer want to make feel sh:tty about themselves before he'll finally be happy?

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/23/14 at 6:40pm

As many as it takes, clearly.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 5/23/14 at 6:51pm

Ha! Trick question. He will never be happy. He is so miserable he wants gay men to be ashamed of their accomplishments.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 5/25/14 at 11:32am

From an Op-Ed in today's Times (which has a needlessly provocative title):

The C.D.C. acted because blood samples from the famous 2010 iPrEx study showed that gay men who took Truvada seven days a week reduced their chances of infection by 99 percent. A 2011 trial, HPTN 052, of heterosexual couples in which only one was infected, showed that when the infected partners took their triple-therapy cocktails regularly, they were 96 percent less likely to infect their lovers.

And in a new and startling development, preliminary results were released in March from a European study following 767 gay and straight couples who didn’t use condoms and whose blood tests confirmed that the infected partners were taking their drugs. The pairs have had sex an estimated 30,400 times since the study began two years ago, and H.I.V. was not transmitted between them even once.

I would like Larry Kramer to tell me who in those 767 gay and straight couples in the European study were COWARDS? Serious research was going on and leading to breakthroughs and what was Larry Kramer doing? He was outing Jason Gould and demanding a million dollars for his movie rights.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 5/25/14 at 2:21pm

Larry's got his eye on you, Namo.

[inception]

Posted: 5/25/14 at 2:40pm

I have never taken Truvada, so can't speak personally of its effects. I am fortunate to not have been on any of the older drugs which caused lypodystrophy. I was on Atazanavir for about 5 years and developed kidney stones from it which was hellish, but went away when I changed over to Darunavir.
I DON"T WANT ANYONE ELSE TO BECOME HIV POSITIVE, BUT...
If you don't have to take a drug, I don't think you should, as there really is no knowing what side effects you may have to deal with. There are still less risky ways to stay safe, like using a condom.
People who used PREP as a sort of "morning after" pill when they slipped up was one thing, but now you have these guys taking it long term. I wouldn't call it cowardly, I'd call it foolish. But the guys who are doing this, are generally already doing stupid things like taking steroids and "Party N Playing" with crystal meth, so their mentality is, "Hey it's just another drug."
In Vancouver we have the philosophy of "harm-reduction" which has been implemented, not without controversy, to deal with HIV transmission among heroin injection users: a "safe injection site" with nurses on staff and clean needles operates in the city. But, I find it difficult to see any way to reduce the harm done by crytal meth use and would rather see monies spent helping these individuals with their addictions.

If I had one thing in my own life, a bit of wisdom, that I could impart to younger guys, it would be work on your self-esteem and don't try to get self-validation by letting every hot guy who hits on you dump his load up you.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 5/25/14 at 8:59pm

"I DON"T WANT ANYONE ELSE TO BECOME HIV POSITIVE, BUT…"

There's no but. Inception, I love you for your struggles and your sharing so much personal info. But, (oh look! I have a "but"!) I have come to think that PrEP is kind of like the abortion "debate". Old white male politicians seem to have a lot to say about what women can or cannot do to their own bodies, but frankly, their opinions don't matter. They should probably hold their tongues.

PrEP is for seriously at-risk HIV-negative people. Going on it is a decision they need to make with a well-versed health care provider. Currently, people on daily PrEP have blood work every three months. They are closely monitored.

At this time, side effects seem to be few. For those who experience any, it's usually nausea that passes within a few weeks.

Making generalizations about the people on PrEP being meth users does nothing to actually inform the discussion. Vancouver's harm reduction policies have saved a lot of lives and stopped a lot of transmission of HIV and Hep C.

And of course, Larry Kramer has had a lot to say about harm reduction in HIV prevention. I recall him asking rhetorically, "What does harm reduction EVEN MEAN for gay men and sex?" Um, you can't even IMAGINE what that might mean, Larry?