NYC: Congestion Pricing Passes

[Gothampc]

Posted: 3/31/08 at 11:21pm

Another middle class tax brought to you by the geniuses that run NYC. These people really are determined to ruin New York City.
Link

[NYadgal]

Posted: 3/31/08 at 11:23pm

Let's hope Albany kills it.

[verynewyorkcurious]

Posted: 4/1/08 at 12:25am

I hope they don't

[george95]

Posted: 4/1/08 at 12:43am

I wish they would charge 50 bucks to bring a car into Manhattan. Most studies show that the vast majority of people who drive in Manhattan have access to safe, easy, cheap public transit, they'd just rather drive. They should pay a fee for ruining NYC with their cars. NYC is the only city in the US where public transit is a viable option. Everywhere else its all car culture. (obviously other cities have transit but NOTHING on the scale or ny) So, if people really insist on driving, I say charge as much as possible 'til they either give up and take transit like any responsible New Yorker, or they move to a Suburban Wasteland.

[wickedrentq]

Posted: 4/1/08 at 1:33am

My concern is that rush hour(and sometimes even non-rush hour) subways are crowded enough as it is, now it'll be even more crowded with ex-drivers taking mass transit. If they were going to provide more cars to come less minutes apart to accomodate these new riders, I'd be all for it, but if we wait for profits to come from the pricing to do so, it could take a long time.

[verynewyorkcurious]

Posted: 4/1/08 at 2:34am

I think they're working on that. Tolls are up now, and hopefully the money from that will go towards the buses and subways. Plus, with congestion pricing, there should be less traffic on the street, more busses, so they should go faster.

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 4/1/08 at 7:03am

Anyone who thinks the money will go to mass transit - I have a bridge I would like to sell you

How long will it be before it is increased?

The cost of everything you consume will now take a sharp hit. Thanks Mayor Mike.

[ShbrtAlley44]

Posted: 4/1/08 at 7:11am

We're turning into London!

[Mr Roxy]

Posted: 4/1/08 at 7:16am

All the money in the world will not stop the service delays & interruptions on the weekend not to mention the absolute horrendous service

Mayor Mike's legacy may be the final nail in the city's coffin.

[Roscoe]

Posted: 4/1/08 at 9:51am

If Bloomberg says it is a good idea, you can safely assume it is a good idea for him and no one else.

Let's all hold our breaths for the money collected from this tax (call it what it is, come on, I dare you) to actually get to the mass transit, and then hold our breaths longer until there's an actual measurable improvement in service.

Instead of overhauling the MTA, Bloomberg sticks it to the people. As usual.

[Elphaba]

Posted: 4/1/08 at 10:10am

"NYC is the only city in the US where public transit is a viable option."

Chicago might disagree

[CJR]

Posted: 4/1/08 at 10:10am

George95, you are mighty opinionated about this. Do you drive into the city or IN the city? I'm willing to hazard a guess that you don't.

As someone who lives 35 minutes outside the city and DOES drive in let me explain a little something to you. Public transportation isn't cheaper than driving in. It also does not allow for very much freedom in whatever plans you make while in the city. Please remember that people who drive into the city also aren't just New Yorkers from other boroughs. People drive in from CT and NJ.... a lot of them on a VERY regular basis. Myself included.

If I were to take the train in, it'd cost me $9 to park my car at the station and $18.50 (off peak -- $24.00 peak) to take the train. Now that's not terrible, but it's certainly not the $4.50 ($2.25 each way on the Henry Hudson/West Side highway) it would cost me to just drive in. Sure, there's gas to take into consideration as well, but that trip BARELY puts a dent in my tank. Not to mention it takes considerably longer on the train than it does to drive in.

Why in God's name would I ever want to waste $30 and be bound to being home at a certain time (because I have no choice and the trains stop running) when I can just spend about $5 bucks, take my time and do what I please?

[Gothampc]

Posted: 4/1/08 at 10:24am

Anyone who thinks this tax will help public transit is sadly mistaken. I can assure you that the excess will always go to fill "budget gaps". The Lexington Avenue line is dangerously overcrowded.

The MTA has gotten worse over the years. You must buy every fare from a machine. The problem is that the machines are not regularly serviced. How many times have I gone to a machine only for it to say "Not accepting bills at this time" or "Not accepting credit cards".

The MTA employees are useless when you can find one. They sit in their little booths and are only there to call the police in case of emergency. They don't give change, they aren't very good at giving directions.

[Calvin]

Posted: 4/1/08 at 10:54am

I will not ride the Lexington line unless absolutely necessary, which fortunately, is quite rare.

One weekend, a friend and I sat at one of the stations and watched five trains go by that were so crowded, only a handful of people at each station could get in. We went above ground and got on a bus, and after it took 20 minutes to go a few blocks, we just said to hell with it and walked the entire 40-50 blocks.

[george95]

Posted: 4/1/08 at 11:06am

CJR I readily admit I am very opinionated about this--I am staunchly pro-transit and very, very VERY anti-car. I am also really defensive when it comes to New York--It is a public transit city, and I take issue with people who insist on bringing cars into it. Yeah I get the whole freedom thing, but to me its like smoking--your right to smoke interferes with my right to clean air, and your right to drive in NYC interferes with the rest of us having a cleaner city with better transit.


When you talk about how much it costs to drive into the city, you didnt' mention the tunnel/bridge tolls, which are now 8 bucks.

And yes, your freedom to come into NYC and do as you please is important, but guess what: your driving into the city, using all that gas, using all that infrastructure, clogging up the roads, etc, well there is a cost to that. If you want all that in a place like New York, and if youre not willing to take the train, you should pay for the convenience of driving.

I am a NJ commuter as well. When I chose my apartment, I knew I would have to live near a PATH station, because I could never accept the idea of bringing a car into Manhattan. That's why I chose Hoboken. The subways and buses get me around just fine.

Elphaba, I was born and raised in Chicago, and lived there for 24 years. Public transit is NOT a viable option in Chicago. The "El" is only good for going downtown from inner-ring suburbs. And it is crippled with slow zones and broken trains. In Chicago, people do whatever they can in order to get a car, because taking the trains and buses is just a miserable experience. If you cant get somewhere by car, then you just dont go. That's why its so hard for me to go home to Chicago now, because I am so used to living out here where I can just hop on the subway whenever I want to go anywhere (or walk). In Chicago, to get ANYWHERE you have to drive----unless you have a ton of time on your hands.

And finally: the congestion pricing is working in Singapore, London and Stockholm. It will work in New York too. If people insist on still bringing their suburban lifestyles and cars into New York, well, we won't have a New York to protect much longer anyway.

Posted: 4/1/08 at 11:09am

Chicago public transit is very good. It's usually faster and now with high gas prices, cheaper to take the EL than drive. And for suburbanites, the Metra train is ALWAYS quicker than battling expressway traffic.

[george95]

Posted: 4/1/08 at 11:11am

Joekv99, you are right about metra being a good option for suburbanites to go downtown. But like I said, transit in Chicago is only good for going to and from downtown. I know youre not gonna say that the average Chicagoan takes the EL to see a movie, have dinner or go shopping, which is common out here in NY.

Posted: 4/1/08 at 11:17am

I lived in Chicago for over 15 years. For all but 4 of those years had no car. Moreover, I knew very few people who had cars and even fewer that drove them routinely. I took the el or bus to grocery shop, go to dinner or movies and to run errands.

I will agree that Chicago is a more car-friendly city than New York. But I am living proof you can get by without a car in Chicago (and it's cheaper too).

[george95]

Posted: 4/1/08 at 11:19am

Joe I'm not saying that every single solitary person in Chicago drives cars, I'm saying that its exceedingly rare in Chicago to find somebody like you (and I'm very glad to hear that you were able to live in Chicago and take the train like you did)

I do have friends who live on the near north or near south sides who can use transit for things like that, but come on, the AVERAGE Chicagoan is not using public transit the way you and your friends did.

Posted: 4/1/08 at 11:39am

We'll just have to agree to disagree. According to the CTA, over one and a half million people ride the El or a bus each weekday. With an urban population of 2.5 Million that means a majority of City Dwellers are using the CTA for at least their daily commute.

[george95]

Posted: 4/1/08 at 12:47pm

The majority of Chicagoans do NOT use the CTA for their daily commutes. Its one of the things I was not happy about in Chicago. the 1.5 million people using the CTA everyday are not necessarily Chicago residents, and the population of Chicago is close to 3 million. Let me check the stats for myself and I'll get back to you : )

[Jilani]

Posted: 4/1/08 at 1:04pm

"NYC is the only city in the US where public transit is a viable option."

I've lived in the Boston area for 14 years without owning a car. But I agree that NYC is one of very few U.S. cities where that's an option. And if congestion pricing is working in other cities where it has been implemented, I don't see why it wouldn't work in New York.

[CJR]

Posted: 4/1/08 at 2:05pm

When you talk about how much it costs to drive into the city, you didnt' mention the tunnel/bridge tolls, which are now 8 bucks.

I clearly stated in my post what it costs me to come into the city. And I also clearly stated that the trip barely puts a dent into my gas tank.

I take no bridges, no tunnels. I take the Merritt Parkway to the Westside Highway and pay one toll in each direction. $2.25 each way.

My post was incredibly clear. And you absolutely missed my complete point.

Yes, NYC has convenient and accessible transportation. A lot of the people who drive in from OUTSIDE NY do not have that luxury. That was my point. Public transportation does not constantly run elsewhere.

[george95]

Posted: 4/1/08 at 2:44pm

No CJR I totally got your point, but when it comes to congestion pricing, someone in your situation is not the target. Most drivers into Manhattan are coming from Hudson county NJ and the outerboroughs. Studies show that most people who live in B.F.E. like do take the train. : )


and here are the stats I promised from http://money.cnn.com/2007/06/13/real_estate/public_transit_commutes/index.htm


Top 10 commuter cities
Where the most residents commute to work on buses, trains and light rail.
City State Public transit users % of workers
New York NY 1.87 million 54.6%
Washington DC 94,260 37.7%
San Francisco CA 124,738 32.7%
Boston MA 80,141 31.7%
Philadelphia PA 139,247 25.9%
Chicago IL 293,703 25.3%
Baltimore MD 48,252 18.9%
Seattle WA 51,259 17.0%
Oakland CA 27,114 16,5%
Portland OR 34,195 13.3%


And hey.....I think I will stir up the pot a little more by suggesting that SUV drivers should definitely pay a higher toll than other cars.

Updated On: 4/1/08 at 02:44 PM

[Jane2]

Posted: 4/1/08 at 2:53pm

". Public transportation isn't cheaper than driving in. It also does not allow for very much freedom in whatever plans you make while in the city"

How is it that public transportation gives you little freedom in whatever plans you make in the city?