Queer Misogyny- Page 6

[Jane2]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:17pm

Robbiej, I appreciate your consideration for what I posted.

All I was trying to say is that when you carry on to that extent, no matter what it's about-you may be offending. I don't think you have to be overly sensitive to react to such a display of disgust.

Anyway, since my post was met with 'let's make out in front of straights on subways and make noises', I see I'm talking to a brick wall, so never mind.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:21pm

Wow, Jane, I'm very sorry if you think that was directed at you but now, frankly, you made me angry.
I said over and over that, if they offended you, you can either walk around with the hurt or say "You know, that kind of upset me" and come to an understanding about it. Was that demeaning to you or making you feel as if you were talking to a brick wall? I certainly don't think so.
you made a point, I made a point, you have flippantly tossed that aside. But what do you want? Do you just want to toss it out there in a vaccuum of meaning? A lot of people like to do that here.
Also, frankly, I find it funny that you've spearheaded the "I'm fat" jokes on this board but were quick to point out how you weren't offended and no one should be offended on your behalf but now we should be offended by the actions of your friends on your behalf? Can we discuss a double standard there?

[Calvin]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:23pm

Jane, I was trying to point out that some visceral reactions to PDAs can stem just as much from the puritanical leftovers that continue to permeate our culture, for better or mostly for worse, rather than a hatred or revulsion of women. I wasn't trying to say anything negative about you or your point.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:24pm

don't apologize, Calvin. See, that's the fun thing about this thread; gays can't hate women but I guess it's ok to just say "le sigh. Fags are all alike."

[lildogs]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:24pm

SOMMS, I meant we overanalyze EVERYTHING. Just a lil joke.

That divide, JMVR, I think, comes from the sexual acceptance lesbians receive in society. I mean, it's pretty common to find straight men and women who find nothing repulsive about two women kissing like they do two men. And women seem to be able to blur the orientation line with few if any repercussions. Like girls going lesbian while in college. Gay by May so to speak.

In NYC however, I think the lesbian community feels slighted because the gay male population is so much larger and vocal, although we do have Christine Quinn as our high-profile politico. I've heard the lesbian community in NYC can be quite clique-ish, something I've never found to be the case with males.

But you're right--the boys and girls don't play very well together--I think it's also a mutual fear that lesbian are man-haters and guys are woman-haters--and of course, many are--on both sides.

[Calvin]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:27pm

I mean, it's pretty common to find straight men and women who find nothing repulsive about two women kissing like they do two men.

Well, yes, if they look like Angelina Jolie. But when it comes to those of a more butch variety, they don't fare much better than us guy homos as far as straight acceptance. Just look at a common Freeper commentary about Rosie O'Donnell, or even Mary Cheney.
Updated On: 5/12/06 at 02:27 PM

[Suedenymes]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:29pm

nearly all the male respondents in this thread give the impression of being gay men, some of whom may thrive on the company of females who like gay men. many of the female respondents in this thread appear to be women who like being surrounded by gay men. how can any personal offense be taken over the use of words by these same respondents amongst themselves?

[Jane2]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:29pm

"Jane, I was trying to point out that some visceral reactions to PDAs can stem just as much from the puritanical leftovers that continue to permeate our culture, for better or mostly for worse, rather than a hatred or revulsion of women. I wasn't trying to say anything negative about you or your point."

Being that it came as a response to what I was saying, I don't know.

[JMVR]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:32pm

I was in DC recently and was dissappointed to find most gay guys are misogynistic and clique-ish while most lezzies hide out in Virginia . . . but they still don't play together!

I expected DC guy to be more welcoming too, but mostly they are realy a closed, closed bunch, unlike New Yorkers.

[Jane2]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:33pm

bway singer, I don't think we're on the same page at all. . I really don't think I've articulated my point with you, otherwise you wouldn't be so angry with me. sorry you are.

as for the fat jokes-I don't think you were here for the origin. It started with the Di2 thread, in which she called us fat fat fat and ugly because we didn't think Paris Hilton was beautiful. I was the one she was targeting as fat fat fat and ugly, although she never met me. All the kidding comes from that thread alone.

Updated On: 5/12/06 at 02:33 PM

[lildogs]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:38pm

I don't get that--I was in DC for a week about 2 years ago and yes, they were a pretty bougie lot (like bourgeois).

Does anyone want to watch Mary Cheney mug down? In all fairness though, I don't want to see Barney Frank either.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:38pm

You're confusing who's saying what. That wasn't Robbie. And I was there for it.
I was also around when the thread started about fat jokes going too far and offending.
I was trying to say that, in your case as well as in MANY cases, people are saying things without intent to offend and they will not know if they have been offensive if you say nothing.

I also get the impression that a lot of people here wish we could all sit around the campfire, roasting marshmallows in between rousing renditions of "kumbaya." However, we live in a world where differences are marked and noted, often celebrated and encouraged, and differences are best highlighted by comparing them to another group - usually to that other group's detriment.
So, unfortunately, as long as have to add qualifying tags to who and what we are all the way down to the tiniest scale, these things are going to occasionally pop up and possibly offend.

[iflitifloat]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:41pm

Oftimes people use that word BECAUSE they know how much it pisses off the females. It's a nucular option as GW would say.

Good point.

[lildogs]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:42pm

You start the fire, bway, and I'll kum by you.

[cheezedoodle]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:43pm

I believe the divide between Gay men and Lesbians stems back to the women's movement and issues from the 60's. I remember Dell Martin taking a public stance against Gay men in San Francisco when there was no support shown from the Gay community for their Lesbian sisters and she basically denounced the community and said "F - You, you are dead to us". (paraphrasing, but you get it.)

Then came AIDS and the first group to show support (emotional and practical) in the first unknown days - was the Lesbian Community. This was huge. To this day there is still a rift between our communities, I see it in San Francisco almost everyday.

As for the "Grace" issue - I don't have one, nor do I want one. I have lots of Lesbian friends and we all get along great.

I have used the "C" word - and most regrettably so. Except for a couple times when it was directed to another Gay man.

Updated On: 5/12/06 at 02:43 PM

[Jane2]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:44pm

"I was trying to say that, in your case as well as in MANY cases, people are saying things without intent to offend and they will not know if they have been offensive if you say nothing."

Exactly. that's why I posted. To let some gay men who think it's not offensive to carry on with disgust about female parts, that it is.

[robbiej]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:47pm

Two reasons I love this thread:

1. People are able to argue passionately, disagree and even get angry without resorting to childish insults. Bravo/a.

2. This thread helped me come up with my new drag name: Kelen Kunt.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:48pm

And MY point, which you seem to be ignoring, is that it's far more important to let your friends who do this know rather than generalized people here, all of whom have pretty much said they wouldn't do that in front of their female friends.

I think the basic thing we can point out in terms of this argument is that some people ARE doing it to be offensive and misogynist. For some people, it's a byproduct of their actions and they'd probably be appalled to know they offended you if you told them.

[lildogs]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:49pm

but robbie, you can't go black with a name like that....

[iflitifloat]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:50pm

Don't know if this is true about men, but I've observed that women who talk about sex incessently and graphically are often the ones who actually like it the least. Overcompensation or something, I guess.

[bwaysinger]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:51pm

What was my name, Robbie? Ginormous Gina?

ETA: We need a drag king name for Iflit. Updated On: 5/12/06 at 02:51 PM

[Suedenymes]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:51pm

what about women who prefer the company of gay men? do they have an aversion to heterosexual sex play?

[Jane2]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:52pm

"And MY point, which you seem to be ignoring, is that it's far more important to let your friends who do this know rather than generalized people here, all of whom have pretty much said they wouldn't do that in front of their female friends"

Huh? I had no idea that when I told about my experience with my friends that by doing that I was generalizing that all of you here are guilty. Is that what you got out of it?

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:53pm

It's kinda like, there are dog people, while others like, well, um...pu, I mean cats.

[Jane2]

Posted: 5/12/06 at 2:55pm

I"ve got to go make meatballs right now. I need a break from arguing.