SUPER Controversial Thread!!! (Not for the faint of heart)- Page 7

[SammyGal]

Posted: 9/26/04 at 8:52pm

oh I reread it. I think the wording of it screwed me up.
But it's part of the great debate that is this thread.

[Gothampc]

Posted: 9/26/04 at 11:15pm

I'm tired of the 9-11 families. Yes what has happened to you is tragic, but you are not the only one who has lost someone tragically. Israel unfortunately deals with it on a weekly basis. It's time to move on.

[NYBroadwayNY]

Posted: 9/26/04 at 11:18pm

A thought about abortion:

When a woman finds out she's pregnant and she WANTS to be, it is called a "BABY."

When a woman finds out she's pregnant and she DOES NOT WANT to be, it is called a fetus.

Any freshman psychology class will teach you, that it's always easier to get rid of something when it's not human.

[feinstein9]

Posted: 9/26/04 at 11:22pm

you make good points, ff. i didn't mean all public schools sucked, per se, but rather that they have a tougher time getting things done because of government interaction, i.e. standerized testing. when i was in public school, they would teach to the test, and it wasn't really about learning but about making sure we all did well on the test so the school would be reconized and get money. in private school, be didn't have to take these b.s. tests, and therefore i feel like a i learned more. i think the whole system needs to be re-evaluated. your comments on bisexuality were comfortting in that they supported what i always secretly thought was true, so it's cool that other people (professors of psychology nonetheless) think so too.

new controversial thought: people only bash techno and disco because they can't dance.

[Rentaholic2]

Posted: 9/26/04 at 11:38pm

I think quite the contrary of Matt_G

I think anyone who can DENY the truth behind the Bible in its historic value, chronological value, and spiritual value has not studied it or is completely ignorant.

It is amazing the number of people that can completely blow-off the Bible as a big story book without even attempting to understand it or even read it.

It has only been the number 1 best selling book since the 1400s. (No, The Da Vinci Code is NOT #1). In fact, it has only been surpassed a few times. Anyone who would say that the number one selling book for 600 years doesn't deserve a read...plain stupid.

[kissmycookie]

Posted: 9/26/04 at 11:45pm

It is one thing to read and learn certain values from the Bible. To live one's life by the STRICT interpretation of it and infer meanings that aren't stated is something else. People forget the Bible has been translated and retranslated from many languages. As with any translation, words and meanings change, because nothing is ever translated perfectly. So be careful should the words "the Bible says...." creep into your conversation. The Bible may not have said that at all.

[Delphine]

Posted: 9/26/04 at 11:49pm

Rentaholic, I, an athiest, do not deny the "historic value" nor the "chronological value" of the Bible. But, in simple words, I do not believe God created those events. They were all workings of man or illusions of the human mind.

I never understand it when Christians argue the historical value of the Bible. A man named Jesus existed. His disciples existed. So on and so forth. But in my eyes Jesus was not the son of any god, and there is no solid proof (or none that has ever been presented to me in all of my research- and trust me, I've done a lot of it) of his being the son of your god.

[StickToPriest]

Posted: 9/26/04 at 11:53pm

The Bible is not exactly the word of God. Way back when, powerful, political men sat and voted which bookms went into the Bible. If they had qualms against something it said, or just plain were in a bitter mood, they would vote against including certain books or gospels in the Bible. Many books missed making it in the Bible by a few votes. Revelations made it into the bible by a VERY slim margin.

And, one must never forget that thorugh the years, priests and cardinals and all sorts of powerful white men have trnaslated the Bible and edited it, making it better conform to thier beliefs and views. i do beleive that the Bible is, more or less, the word of God, but it is extremely difficult, if not impossible, to find the word of God in it today, with all the changes humans have made to it.

As for people who say "But the Bible says...."

I always say:

"Which Bible does this come from?"
Lest we forget there are many. The Catholic Bible has 13 more books than the Protestant Bible.

And, more importnatly, "What is the context of the quotation?"
More often than not they have no idea. And, out of context, any quotation can be translated any number of ways. And either they have no idea what the context the quotation that they are using to support their argument is, or they do know the contect, and also know that in context the quotation actually doesn't support their arguments.


And then therer are those who use LEviticus to say the Bible says homosexuality is a sin. First of all, it is in the Old Testament, more sepcifically, LEVITICUS. MANY of the Levitical laws are no longer used by anyone. Heck, Leviticus also says that eating shrimp will send you straight to hell, but you don't see any Constitutional Ammendments to ban shrimp from our restuarants, do you?

Updated On: 3/2/05 at 11:53 PM

[BroadwayMonkey]

Posted: 9/26/04 at 11:58pm

Being agnostic, I've decided for the world to prove something to me. I'm tired of spending 7 years in a Catholic school looking for the Truth, and then discovering it's might not be there. You give me some proof, and I'll listen to your story.

[feinstein9]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 12:00am

very cool post priest- you say what i feel but in a more eloquent manner. props, snaps, and all that jazz (highland park residents represent!)

[StickToPriest]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 12:02am

"You give me some proof, and I'll listen to your story."

I'm afraid that there isn't and there never will be proof.
This sound so corny, but the only proof is faith.
But I am not a typical Christian, my views are very controversial. (See my other long post in this thread)
But, also, I do not belive that one even has to belive in God to get to heaven. Just live a good life and be kind to others. God doesn't care if you're atheist or what. He just cares how you treat your fellow man.


EDIT: Feinstein, I believe my views would cause many HP residents to want to strangle me.

Updated On: 3/2/05 at 12:02 AM

[bythesword84]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 12:08am

No offense but that whole "agnostic" belief drives me mad. The world doesn't have to prove anything to anyone. If there was proof it wouldn't be called faith. Faith is believing without proof because you feel you know what is (or is not) there.

[Rentaholic2]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 12:09am

I'm not trying to turn this into a nasty religious argument, because it IS the 'controversy thread' where anyone can say what they want, but here are just a couple of thoughts...

kissmycookie--

The 2 copies of Isaiah discovered in a cave near the Dead Sea in 1947 were 1000 years older than the oldest dated manuscript previously known. Still, it proved to be word for word identical with our standard Hebrew Bible in more than 95% of the text. The 5% of variation consisted chiefly of obvious slips of the pen and variations in spelling. They do not affect the message of revelation in the slightest.

[BroadwayMonkey]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 12:11am

None taken. But I just want something to happen. To restart my faith in God, or show me that there isn't.

[bythesword84]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 12:13am

I'm not arguing. I'm merely saying what I think based on that the term agnostic was used and brought it to mind.

[Rentaholic2]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 12:18am

bythesword, right on about faith.

Hey, broadwaymonkey, props to you for being open-minded and WANTING it.

And I understand your feelings...especially since you said you went or go to a Catholic Church. I can't say I agree with much of the Catholic's practices and some of their beliefs, but that's just me.

Anyway, don't give up! Keep in the Word and talk to God and your faith will be rekindled, I promise.

If you ever want to discuss or have any questions, I'm here, and I'll be praying for you!

[BroadwayMonkey]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 12:18am

It'ss just the best description of what I feel. There might be a God, there might not. And that's what I've got.

[Rentaholic2]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 12:21am

Oh, and I wouldn't count on the world to prove anything to you. There is a fine fine line between God and the World when it comes to who you worship, who you look to for answers, and who you live for. Turn to God...he has all the answers. He obviously wants you to come to Him...otherwise, we wouldn't be having this convesation!:)

[BroadwayMonkey]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 12:23am

Well, what makes you so sure there's a God?




PS: Oh, man. That's controversial.

[bythesword84]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 12:24am

I'm a Catholic and I've had nothing but wonderful experiences with my faith, and I went to Catholic schools for my entire life, including my college. It's all about personal experience and remembering that one parish doesn't reflect all parishes.

[Rentaholic2]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 12:26am

Well, you know, as far as the very EXISTANCE of God, my opinion is this...

It is SO much easier to believe that He does exist. There are so many things that are so hard to explain that can be explained with God. Plus, there is so much evidence to support Him. Besides the textual and historical evidence, I consider myself living proof!

Because I have God in my life, I feel complete and blessed in everything I do. I honestly can look back and see the worst points of my life were when I was running from God.

Stop running!

[Rentaholic2]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 12:30am

Bythesword, I sincerly apologize if I offended. I did not mean to stereotype or generalize. I know many Catholics who are as you described.

[BroadwayMonkey]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 12:30am

The thing is, I'd love to be more religious. I think that'd be so cool. But then I'm just like...."What if I dedicate my life to this religion, and I die and there's nothing? No god, no heaven?"

[Rentaholic2]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 12:38am

Again, that's where the 'faith' part comes in. But would you honestly rather risk dying and going south because you denied God?

I thought of something else as proof to God's existance(if the air you breathe is not enough):

The Old Testament is FILLED with prophesies, many conserning the coming Mesiah, many conserning the Israelites and the future of the Promised Land, as well as other prophesies. Now take the great state of Texas and cover every square inch if it with quarters, paint ONE of the red, and send a blind man out to pick ONE quarter. The probability of all of these hundreds of prophesies being fulfilled was the same as the probability of that blind man picking the red quarter. And yet, every single one of them was fulfilled in the New Testament. More prophesies were made in the New Testament that have since been fulfilled or are being fulfilled as we speak.

Now if there wasn't a God behind that, then you've found one intuitive blind man.

[Rentaholic2]

Posted: 9/27/04 at 1:00am

nice having controversies with you people, but I must sleep. I would very much enjoy continuing this conversation in this calm manner with anyone, it's fun to discuss...PM me!

And thank you all for not shunning me for my beliefs (I know they might not be the most popular around here)...I'll try to give everyone that same curtesy