SURVIVOR 19: SAMOA - Megathread (Spoilers Within) — Page 6

Going into it, I would have thought Mick had a good shot at winning.
But, he really blew it during Q&A by not standing up for himself, and letting Russell take over the statements.

I don't think that Russell deserved to win based on his gameplay. Part of the game is who you take with you to the finals, and he made some bad decisions with his strategy and his answers. As Jeff said, it's not just getting to the finals, it's getting the votes - and he didn't play to get the votes.

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No, he did play for the votes and he stated that repeatedly during the more recent episodes. His only admitted mistake was not taking Jaison and Shambo. He went into the jury thinking he had exactly 5 votes. But during the Q&A he discovered that 1 of his 5 was probably not going to vote for him.


On a different topic -- I thought the Live Finale was always broadcast from the Ed Sullivan Theater in New York where David Letterman tapes. Why are they in Hollywood this season?

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Oh LAWD, they're doing Heroes versus Villains?? Does this mean we're going to have Russell in back-to-back seasons???

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I think they've already shot the Heroes/Villains season, so I expect it will not include Russell.

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That God for that.

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I'm not keen on seeing any of the villains come back, but I would love to see Stephenie or Cirie again, even though they have played two seasons each already.

Ok, watching a member of Russell's "dumb-ass girl alliance" beat him for the title when he carried her to the finals was the highlight of the season for me. That was HILARIOUS!! I was rooting for Mick at first, but it was pretty clear he had no real drive or backbone. Natalie handled the Q&A perfectly. And no, I don't think Russell was the best strategist ever or any of that other crap. He found the hidden idols without clues and he ousted a couple of the people he targeted very early in the game. Other than that, I was not that impressed. He made a TON of mistakes and constantly underestimated everyone. Russell was extremely lucky in the final immunity challenge. How many times did he say Brett couldn't possibly win any challenges? Why did he take Natalie to the end? I believe he said something about her being useless and wouldn't get any votes. Instead, he gets rid of SHAMBO, who pissed off every single person on the jury and was the biggest traitor of the purple people eaters.

Though I don't care for him, the best strategist is still Richard Hatch. With no previous knowledge of the game, he set the precedent in Survivor strategy that has been a major component of the game for every subsequent season. Not to mention the fact that he actually WON.

I think the Johnny Fairplay ban was lifted because he returned for the Fans vs. Favorites season, but left the competition early voluntarily. But I do remember him being banned for a period of time, not just for the grandmother comment, but also for his behavior at live events, if I'm not mistaken.

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Updated On: 12/21/09 at 08:39 AM

I can't believe that there are people defending Natalie's win. She did NOTHING to win except attach herself to a strategist who carried her through to the end. Then, she LIED at the end saying they worked together - BS - everything we saw was RUSSELL running the show.

In no way did ANYONE outplay or outwit Russell. The jury, as we've all said all season, was full of bitter and not very intelligent members who voted for who they liked rather than the person who CLEARLY was the best player of the season (maybe not of all time, but in the top ten certainly).

Perhaps an argument can be made Russell was a jerk - but what does that have to do with game play? Fact is, as he said, EVERYONE he wanted out went out. He controlled the game from day one and THAT deserves the win without question.

I COMPLETELY chalk this up to a dumb jury - there is simply no way to argue that Natalie played it better than Russell.

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Fact is, as he said, EVERYONE he wanted out went out. He controlled the game from day one and THAT deserves the win without question.

Clearly, if you make it to the final, then most likely, everyone you wanted went out. And I don't remember Mick being part of his final three master plan. Russell did not mastermind every expulsion and he clearly made compromises when votes were not going his way, especially when it came to Shambo, which was one of his biggest mistakes in the game.

Perhaps an argument can be made Russell was a jerk - but what does that have to do with game play?

A major part of game play in a setting where members vote each other out of the game is social interaction, which is where Russell failed and Natalie prevailed. It's a HUGE part of the Survivor game and always has been.

everything we saw was RUSSELL running the show.

"Everything we saw" is the operative phrase. The editing focused so much on Russell, we saw very little of what anyone else was doing. Shambo and John were two players that made two of the biggest moves of the season, turning the tables for Foa Foa, for which Russell took credit. Natalie outplayed Russell socially and ultimately outwitted him because he was always underestimating his competition and she rocked the Q&A, which was crucial for jury votes.

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Updated On: 12/21/09 at 11:34 AM

adamgreer is right. Not everything goes according to plan all the time, but the good player will adapt. Russell was not bullheaded enough to say that what he wanted went straight through no matter what - when he needed to, he changed the plan. How many times did we see Russell say "So and so is next to go" -- and their torches were snuffed that night.

As I said before, Russell WAS an arrogant jerk and yes, that probably rubbed some jury members the wrong way. Given that, another group of more intelligent people looking at the game as played would have looked past it and awarded him the money. It's happened before - Richard Hatch and Brian Hedick are both examples of not very liked players, but players whose GAME PLAY won the game for them. Regardless, Natalie didn't DO anything to win the game but ride coattails. Had she not attached herself to Russell, there's NO WAY she would have won.

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I don't care how well you strategize. If you're a dick and you alienate, betray and piss people off you can't expect them to vote for you for the win.

Richard Hatch and Brian Hedick are both examples of not very liked players, but players whose GAME PLAY won the game for them.

Richard won by one vote and it had a lot to do with how he played the jury to recognize Kelli's faults and dodge the bullets. The jury generally felt he was the lesser of two evils. He was brilliant with strategy, but Kelli won five immunity challenges in a row, which propelled her into the finals. Both were hated by the jury and both had compelling reasons to win.

Brian also won by only one vote, but he chose his partner for the finale wisely. But even Probst called it his least favorite season and the most unlikeable final four, so it's not really a fair comparison.

Regardless, Natalie didn't DO anything to win the game but ride coattails. Had she not attached herself to Russell, there's NO WAY she would have won.

She did do something apparently, because she won. She attached herself to someone who was playing rough and let him take the bullets while she remained in the game to the very end without making people hate her. She obviously had Russell wrapped around her finger because even when she was bonding with Brett and the fact that pretty much everyone liked her, he still took her to the end. Natalie won by a vote of 7-2 over Russell (Mick garnered no votes from the jury). It wasn't even close and that was from the people who saw a lot more of the game than the editors and producers allowed us to see.

If you're a dick and you alienate, betray and piss people off you can't expect them to vote for you for the win.

Which is precisely why Russell needed Shambo and either Jaison or Mick by his side at the end.

While Natalie isn't my favorite winner by a long shot, I prefer her to Vecepia, Earl or Sandra any day.

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i have to say out of the final three, i liked mick the best. too bad he didn't get any votes