Teacher Emphasizes Old-Fashioned Etiquette- Page 3

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 2/21/10 at 7:50pm

Yes, they are taught to say thank you when the boys do all this stuff for them. Again, this isn't teaching the value of being polite. It's teaching outdated social mores.

[Taryn]

Posted: 2/21/10 at 7:52pm

you holding the door open for me* when i'm perfectly capable of opening it myself = me looking vulnerable and helpless, two things that i am NOT and do not want to be portrayed as.

Of all the times I've seen someone hold a door open for someone else -- including times when someone was on crutches -- I have never once thought, "Gosh, that person can't open the door for themselves. How vulnerable and helpless they are." I think, "It's nice for that person to get the door for them."

I also don't think that people who hold the door open for others don't think they can do it themselves. I think they think that it's a nice thing to do.

[Jane2]

Posted: 2/21/10 at 7:53pm

I'm curious - how do you folks feel about "respecting your elders?" Do you think that's silly and old fashioned? And do you treat elders rudely if you feel like it?

I'm not asking because I'm your elder, lol. I'm really just curious.

[ShbrtAlley44]

Posted: 2/21/10 at 7:54pm

It is teaching the value of being polite. These behaviors will hopefully carry over into other areas; holding doors in general, thanking others, etc - common courtesy. It helps in taking the kids' minds off themselves and focuses them on others. I don't think these "outdated" social mores are negative or destructive.

I'd rather see kids (and indeed most adults) behaving like old-fashioned ladies and gentlemen than like the indulged monsters I usually see.

Taryn - Exactly. Abba, people don't mean to make you feel like crap. They're trying to make your life easier since you appear to be struggling. It's not to make you feel useless. Updated On: 2/21/10 at 07:54 PM

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 2/21/10 at 7:58pm

I believe in showing people respect who show me respect. Blanket statements like "respect your elders" don't mean much to me, because I've encountered plenty of people who are my elders who don't deserve my respect. I think it's silly to assume that just because someone is older than me they automatically deserve my respect.

If we're going to live our lives by ancient platitudes I'd much rather live simply by the one that start with "do unto others."

[ShbrtAlley44]

Posted: 2/21/10 at 8:00pm

Why would they show you respect if you don't show them respect? Do unto others is good, but common courtesy is always appreciated. Step aside and let people off the subway train before you get on. Hold doors for people. It's just a token of appreciation and sometimes will encourage others to do the same. I'm a big proponent of courtesy. Rudeness drives me up the wall.

[Jane2]

Posted: 2/21/10 at 8:01pm

Phyllis, how about this - let's say you don't think your boss is showing you enough respect. Do you disrespect him/her?

[Jane2]

Posted: 2/21/10 at 8:05pm

"If we're going to live our lives by ancient platitudes"

Being polite and having manners are ancient platitudes?

Well, I'm sorry but I don't think there's a time constraint for something as positive as manners. Shirley you couldn't be saying that manners are outdated?

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 2/21/10 at 8:08pm

Jane, I guess it would depend on the level of disrespect?

t meant boys would hold doors for girls. Boys would allow girls to eat first if there was food in class. Boys would offer to take a girl's backpack before she sat down. And they would offer to seat the girl at her desk.

Of course, girls may refuse any offer.

So who really has the choice here? The boys? The girls? Neither?



Girls deserve to be fussed over. As a matter of schoolwork Updated On: 2/21/10 at 08:08 PM

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 2/21/10 at 8:08pm

I just don't believe that one group--the elderly, women--are entitled to be passive recipients of "good manners."

I think they have an equal responsibility to be polite to me. It's a mutual social contract in my mind.

You don't get a pass to behave however you want just because you were born before I was or have a uterus.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 2/21/10 at 8:08pm

People are willfully misreading me here.

No, Jane, I don't believe every elder is worthy of my respect. Sorry.

[ShbrtAlley44]

Posted: 2/21/10 at 8:10pm

Well, of course they should be polite to you. No one's saying they shouldn't.

[Jane2]

Posted: 2/21/10 at 8:12pm

"No, Jane, I don't believe every elder is worthy of my respect. Sorry."

Why are you apologizing to me? Talk about misreading. Did I once say that I felt the elders should be respected?

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 2/21/10 at 8:17pm

Shbrt, again if I'm reading the original article correctly, it's all about teaching the boys to "be polite" to the girls. That implied to me a one-way street in the world of manners. I may have misinterpreted.

But if we're all agreed to men don't need to be any politer to women than women should be to men, that the elderly are obliged to treat younger people with the same respect they would like--and neither group has an entitlement another doesn't have--then I'm 100 percent on board.

[Jane2]

Posted: 2/21/10 at 8:23pm

Again-I did not take a stand on elder respect. I only asked how you people felt about it.

I mostly agree that there is not a category which deserves outright respect except for one. There are people who are respected by virtue of their positions/titles.

The President, other political positions, certain higher ups in education, medicine, etc.

Now don't get me wrong - I am NOT saying that within yourselves you must respect these people (think Bush). I AM saying that I doubt if you would treat them impolitely in person whether you wanted to or not.

[AbbaRabbit]

Posted: 2/21/10 at 8:25pm

when you've had every door opened for you, had people get way too far out of the way so you could pass (when you really don't take up any more space than an able-bodied person), and had everything brought to you and done for you when you're trying nothing more than to be independent, "it's just being polite" doesn't cut it.
i'm 24 and people still treat me like i'm 10 out of "politeness". if i'm in the student center and i say "is there an outlet i can plug my laptop into?" i don't mean "can you plug this in for me" i mean is there an available outlet so i can get up and plug my computer in. the neighborhood i go to school in isn't really known for people going out of their way to do something for someone else. it annoys me that almost anyone else in the school could go by un-noticed, but someone would jump to their feet to do something for me that i'm capable of doing myself.
at the beginning of the semester, the one of the professors in my stagecraft class pulled me aside and told me she's make sure she would find easy things for me to do, like washing paintbrushes and sorting out different sizes of bolts. i made it very clear that the only things i couldn't do in class were climb folding latters and carry things up and down stairs. because of that, no one in that class treats me any different than they treat anyone else, and that's how i want it to be.

[SweetQintheLights]

Posted: 2/21/10 at 8:27pm

Sorry for the interruption but this thread makes me think of when 2 cars are stopped at stop signs. One car signals the other one to go but the other one flashes their lights to tell the other one to go and the first person emphatically waves their hand to the other person who then beeps and tells the other person to go. And then, they end up both going at the same time.

Not sure why it reminded me of that...

Another little tidbit story: I was at the supermarket and was tearing off one of those bags to put fruit in. A man was next to me waiting to get a bag so I just decided to be nice and hand him the bag I tore for myself. I said "here you go" and the bag dropped as I was giving it to him. He bent down (first), picked up the bag, threw it in my hand and walked off angrily.
Talk about a nice gesture gone wrong...

Sorry for the off-topic-ness...


Abba- I can almost 100% guarantee you that they are not holding the door to be rude or because they don't think you can do it. They are holding it to be nice for a person who looks like they MAY need a little assistance. After-all, many people who are on crutches appreciate a door being held.

Updated On: 2/21/10 at 08:27 PM

[Jane2]

Posted: 2/21/10 at 8:28pm

Abba, I respect your situation and completely understand what you're saying. However, I think we're talking in general here, and not about specific situations which are exceptions. In your case, I think that people do think they're being helpful and not rude to you.

[ShbrtAlley44]

Posted: 2/21/10 at 8:34pm

Reginald, I'm definitely not saying that women and the elderly should get off being as rude as they want. They should absolutely return courtesy. As a woman, I often appreciate little gestures of old-fashioned chivalry, however, including opening the door for me, etc. I don't need a man to do these things, but I appreciate them because it shows that he's going out of his way to make me comfortable. I return the favor by thanking him and complimenting his manners.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 2/21/10 at 8:39pm

How do you know he's doing it just because you're a woman and not he's polite to everyone?

[ShbrtAlley44]

Posted: 2/21/10 at 8:44pm

Because he doesn't help men out of the car. He does hold doors for them, though.

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 2/21/10 at 8:48pm

Okay, you're talking about a specific man.


Updated On: 2/21/10 at 08:48 PM

[AbbaRabbit]

Posted: 2/21/10 at 8:53pm

oh, i agree, they're not doing it to be rude, they think they're helping me, which is part of the problem. there are some people who would rather have everything done for them and when people treat you like that, you never learn to do anything for yourself.
i play on several disabled sports teams and for the most part, the other members of my teams are very independent people (and have been amazing role models for me).
someone who doesn't know anyone with a disability might see me or my friends shoveling our own cars out of the snow, or navigating a shopping cart in the grocery store from a wheelchair and think it's cruel that no one is helping us (doing it for us), but if i let everyone do everything for me, i wouldn't be in college, i wouldn't be playing sports, i wouldn't be going out with my friends, i wouldn't be food shopping, i wouldn't be doing anything.

[JerseyGirl2]

Posted: 2/21/10 at 9:15pm

I tend to show respect to elders until they don't respond with respect. lol

I don't need any man to pull out a chair for me and I don't really like the idea of teaching boys to do just because it's a girl. It helps to feed into the idea of the "little lady" when they are adults. Yes, it is an old fashioned tradition, but it makes it harder for women to be a part of the boys club. I probably am not stating my opinion well, but I just don't like it.

[Jane2]

Posted: 2/21/10 at 9:31pm

Why do waiters hold chairs for the ladies and not the men?