Teacher Emphasizes Old-Fashioned Etiquette- Page 4
Teacher Emphasizes Old-Fashioned Etiquette
StockardFan
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/19/08
#75Teacher Emphasizes Old-Fashioned Etiquette
Posted: 2/21/10 at 9:38pmI haven't read his whole thread, but I will hold the door for whomever is behind me.
#76Teacher Emphasizes Old-Fashioned Etiquette
Posted: 2/22/10 at 1:09amIf it's a chair-holding kind of place, I have in fact had hosts, male and female, pull out my chair for me.
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#77Teacher Emphasizes Old-Fashioned Etiquette
Posted: 2/22/10 at 1:30pm
And that crap is totally different. You're paying for that when you go to a nice restaurant. The waiter isn't doing it because it's courteous or polite, he's doing it because it's his job.
Never once did imply that men shouldn't be courteous to women, or that anyone should be "disrepeted" on principle. But again, that's not what this is about. This is about public school students being taught to behave like it's the 19th century.
#78Teacher Emphasizes Old-Fashioned Etiquette
Posted: 2/22/10 at 3:09pmI don't know. I think the thing that doesn't bother me about this was the article's specific reference to the boys' earlier behavior. According to the teacher, this grew out of the fact that the boys seemed to be disrespecting girl with their actions. I tend to agree with the poster (jason?) that this is a lesson in behavior modification where the manners being taught are a little more rigid than what the real world expects in order to get message through.
#79Teacher Emphasizes Old-Fashioned Etiquette
Posted: 2/22/10 at 3:20pm
I think it's great. The men in my generation (men? boys, more likely) have no manners at all! The concept of being polite and kind to a counterpart, male or female, has gone out of style.
I'm not saying that as a woman, I need a man to open the door, or pull out a chair. But it's nice for anyone to open the door when my arms are full. I had a date once where the gentleman stood up when I went to the bathroom. I almost died of laughter because it seems so quaint, but he was raised to treat women with respect.
Sure, it seems intense what this teacher is doing, but if it gets these boys to treat women and the people in their lives in kinder ways and not, say, as sex objects (that we are often relegated to, regardless of intelligence), I think it's wonderful.
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#80Teacher Emphasizes Old-Fashioned Etiquette
Posted: 2/22/10 at 3:27pm
To Robbie's point, that gave me pause, but I saw no specifics. I'm curious to know what "treating the girls roughly" means, and what happened to this classroom to make this the only place where all fifteen year old girls are models of manners and decorum. That's not really MY recollection of fifteen year old girls.
To shira's, when you say, "I'm not saying that as a woman, I need a man to open the door, or pull out a chair. But it's nice for anyone to open the door when my arms are full." By anyone do you mean any man - because again, that's what this class is teaching. I'm curious to know what generation you are, because living in a city, if I was going to take a sexist poll, I'd say that women across the board have worse social manners than men.
And it's also objectifying the women.
It's not teaching manners or etiquette or politeness. It's teaching chivalry, which is something else. And I don't see how we can live in the world we live in - at least MY generation, which are the children of the women's liberation movement - and seriously make a case that women can grow up to anything a man can, but men SHOULD treat always treat women like they are visiting dignitaries simply because they are women.
Updated On: 2/22/10 at 03:27 PM
#81Teacher Emphasizes Old-Fashioned Etiquette
Posted: 2/22/10 at 3:29pm
I like it when someone opens the door for me, too.
And I might be on board with the notion that this teacher is fixing a problem if I believed that girls were pretty much fine as they are, and the boys all mannerless thugs. But that doesn't align with my experience; check out any number of videos of girls beating the **** out of each other. But what do I know? Maybe that was the case in this classroom.
But I still think any teaching that isn't about mutual respect and responsibility is pointless. Ok, maybe not pointless, but surely only half the battle.
#82Teacher Emphasizes Old-Fashioned Etiquette
Posted: 2/22/10 at 3:41pmI hold the door for whomever is behind me regardless of age or gender and consider whomever doesn't a jerk if I am within certain distance to the door. I think that's politeness that doesn't require any other specifics like gender. I just can't understand why it is considered polite for a man to stand when a woman walks in or out of the room but unnecessary for a woman to do the same for a man or even a man for a man, etc. The recurring answer in this thread seems to be that it's because it's tradition. Why is it tradition? If we're on an equal playing field, why are the rules different? I guess it's an, "it is what it is," conversation.
#83Teacher Emphasizes Old-Fashioned Etiquette
Posted: 2/22/10 at 3:44pmI always hold the door for people...but if they dont say "thank you" I call them an ahole under my breath. It's usually the females who dont say thank you.
"In Oz, the verb is douchifizzation." PRS
#84Teacher Emphasizes Old-Fashioned Etiquette
Posted: 2/22/10 at 3:46pm
I mean men or women.
I'm 24. I grew up in Los Angeles, and learned to open the door for my peers, and say please and thank you.
I think chivalry has a place in relationships as acts of kindness, not necessarily acts of sexism.
I believe women can do anything they want, sure. That's how I was raised. However, aside from Madonna's arms, we are NOT the physically stronger sex. I don't think opening the door for me demeans my intelligence or my character. I just think it's nice. While I think this teacher should do a non-gender specific lesson of politeness, I'd say something is better than nothing. With all the media and stimulation all these children are exposed to, I am doubtful the girls will become docile and dainty do-nothings while the boys become misogynists.
StockardFan
Broadway Legend Joined: 6/19/08
#85Teacher Emphasizes Old-Fashioned Etiquette
Posted: 2/22/10 at 3:48pm
I always say thank you. I find it's old people that don't say thank you most of the time. Especially at the gym. Like just because they are old I am expected to hold the door for them. I would anyway, but say thanks already.
I usually say "You're welcome" in a really cheerful voice.
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#86Teacher Emphasizes Old-Fashioned Etiquette
Posted: 2/22/10 at 3:49pm
But people keep tying in this stuff to just being polite to everyone and not being a douche when you're out in the world - but there's NOTHING in that article that states that's what this is about.
Chivalry is sexist by nature. It can't not be. (If I hold the door for a dude, no one would call that chivalry, just that I was being polite) It can be a sexism that doesn't bother you because it benefits you, but it's a form of sexism nonetheless.
ETA - And if you are talking about relationships, again, that's a totally different thing. And I have acknowledged that about a hundred times.
And if this teacher is talking about this in the context of relationships, at least now I can point to any example of teaching heterosexual behavior in schools when the right complains about teaching homosexual behavior is schools.
Updated On: 2/22/10 at 03:49 PM
#87Teacher Emphasizes Old-Fashioned Etiquette
Posted: 2/22/10 at 3:53pmExactly Stockard...I always say YOURE WELCOME, (ahole)!
"In Oz, the verb is douchifizzation." PRS
#88Teacher Emphasizes Old-Fashioned Etiquette
Posted: 2/22/10 at 4:55pmDoodle, if the person isn't quick enough with the "thank you" when I hold the door for them, I simply slam it quickly in their face. That usually makes the point pretty clearly.
#89Teacher Emphasizes Old-Fashioned Etiquette
Posted: 2/25/10 at 3:57pm
I've noticed both men and women generally hold the door open for me wen entering a doorway in front of me. But I don't go out of my way to open a door for a woman simply because she's a woman. I'll open a door for any person if I'm using it as well or if it is clear they might need assistance.
The really bizarre phenomenon I've noticed in the past few years involves revolving doors. I've come across several young women (I've never seen a man do this), often talking on cell phones, who enter a revolving door and simply stand there and wait for someone else to come along and do the pushing. That bugs the CRAP out of me. If I notice they are pulling that trick, I'll waltz over to the manual door and leave the bitches standing there.
#90Teacher Emphasizes Old-Fashioned Etiquette
Posted: 2/25/10 at 4:12pm
Mister Matt, I notice that too and it drives me crazy.
#91Teacher Emphasizes Old-Fashioned Etiquette
Posted: 2/25/10 at 4:15pmlol, I notice that too and what I do is push the door as hard as I can!
#92Teacher Emphasizes Old-Fashioned Etiquette
Posted: 2/25/10 at 4:22pm
I just let it stop. And they look absolutely baffled.
"But . . but . . . I'm standing in here!"
#93Teacher Emphasizes Old-Fashioned Etiquette
Posted: 2/25/10 at 4:32pmMaybe I'll try that one next, Reg!
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