Teacher Emphasizes Old-Fashioned Etiquette — Page 4

If it's a chair-holding kind of place, I have in fact had hosts, male and female, pull out my chair for me.

I don't know. I think the thing that doesn't bother me about this was the article's specific reference to the boys' earlier behavior. According to the teacher, this grew out of the fact that the boys seemed to be disrespecting girl with their actions. I tend to agree with the poster (jason?) that this is a lesson in behavior modification where the manners being taught are a little more rigid than what the real world expects in order to get message through.

To Robbie's point, that gave me pause, but I saw no specifics. I'm curious to know what "treating the girls roughly" means, and what happened to this classroom to make this the only place where all fifteen year old girls are models of manners and decorum. That's not really MY recollection of fifteen year old girls.

To shira's, when you say, "I'm not saying that as a woman, I need a man to open the door, or pull out a chair. But it's nice for anyone to open the door when my arms are full." By anyone do you mean any man - because again, that's what this class is teaching. I'm curious to know what generation you are, because living in a city, if I was going to take a sexist poll, I'd say that women across the board have worse social manners than men.

And it's also objectifying the women.

It's not teaching manners or etiquette or politeness. It's teaching chivalry, which is something else. And I don't see how we can live in the world we live in - at least MY generation, which are the children of the women's liberation movement - and seriously make a case that women can grow up to anything a man can, but men SHOULD treat always treat women like they are visiting dignitaries simply because they are women.

Updated On: 2/22/10 at 03:27 PM

I hold the door for whomever is behind me regardless of age or gender and consider whomever doesn't a jerk if I am within certain distance to the door. I think that's politeness that doesn't require any other specifics like gender. I just can't understand why it is considered polite for a man to stand when a woman walks in or out of the room but unnecessary for a woman to do the same for a man or even a man for a man, etc. The recurring answer in this thread seems to be that it's because it's tradition. Why is it tradition? If we're on an equal playing field, why are the rules different? I guess it's an, "it is what it is," conversation.

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I mean men or women.

I'm 24. I grew up in Los Angeles, and learned to open the door for my peers, and say please and thank you.

I think chivalry has a place in relationships as acts of kindness, not necessarily acts of sexism.

I believe women can do anything they want, sure. That's how I was raised. However, aside from Madonna's arms, we are NOT the physically stronger sex. I don't think opening the door for me demeans my intelligence or my character. I just think it's nice. While I think this teacher should do a non-gender specific lesson of politeness, I'd say something is better than nothing. With all the media and stimulation all these children are exposed to, I am doubtful the girls will become docile and dainty do-nothings while the boys become misogynists.

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But people keep tying in this stuff to just being polite to everyone and not being a douche when you're out in the world - but there's NOTHING in that article that states that's what this is about.

Chivalry is sexist by nature. It can't not be. (If I hold the door for a dude, no one would call that chivalry, just that I was being polite) It can be a sexism that doesn't bother you because it benefits you, but it's a form of sexism nonetheless.

ETA - And if you are talking about relationships, again, that's a totally different thing. And I have acknowledged that about a hundred times.

And if this teacher is talking about this in the context of relationships, at least now I can point to any example of teaching heterosexual behavior in schools when the right complains about teaching homosexual behavior is schools.

Updated On: 2/22/10 at 03:49 PM

Doodle, if the person isn't quick enough with the "thank you" when I hold the door for them, I simply slam it quickly in their face. That usually makes the point pretty clearly.

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Mister Matt, I notice that too and it drives me crazy.

I just let it stop. And they look absolutely baffled.

"But . . but . . . I'm standing in here!"