#76
Posted: 7/11/05 at 12:18am
And when did your subscription to Honcho begin?
WHY is this tolerated? (In response to Fahrenheit 9/11) — Page 4
#77
Posted: 7/11/05 at 12:20am
Oh, like I would have THAT delievered while I was still living at home. Like I could WAIT for the subscription rather than buy it the day it hit the stands? Like I didn't HIDE my Honchos in the bottom drawer inside my Village Voices.
I just realized that when I was Capn's age I'd had a subscription to The Nation for two years.
When you're 19 Capn, "But I'm just a kid" is not a viable answer any longer. Hate to break it to ya.
I just realized that when I was Capn's age I'd had a subscription to The Nation for two years.
When you're 19 Capn, "But I'm just a kid" is not a viable answer any longer. Hate to break it to ya.
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
#78
Posted: 7/11/05 at 12:21am
"And trust NOBODY. No one source gets it right all the time. You have to ENGAGE with the world and read as much as you can get your hands on."
As Alice says in ALICE IN WONDERLAND, that's "very good advice."
However no matter how much I read, I will never feel safe forming an opinion. I just don't know the truth. It's complicated, as you're aware.
I don't wanna grow up, Namo!
As Alice says in ALICE IN WONDERLAND, that's "very good advice."
However no matter how much I read, I will never feel safe forming an opinion. I just don't know the truth. It's complicated, as you're aware.
I don't wanna grow up, Namo!
"The Spectacle has, indeed, an emotional attraction of its own, but, of all the parts, it is the least artistic, and connected least with the art of poetry. For the power of Tragedy, we may be sure, is felt even apart from representation and actors. Besides, the production of spectacular effects depends more on the art of the stage machinist than on that of the poet."
--Aristotle
--Aristotle
#79
Posted: 7/11/05 at 12:22am
so is capn a typical f911 convert (if so, i fell even more secure about '06 and beyond) or the shining exception (which proves the rule) to my assurances to auggie that political awareness was growing? answer me, dammit, you big meanie, namo, or i'll just scream, i will.
r.i.p. marco, my guardian angel.
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
...global warming can manifest itself as heat, cool, precipitation, storms, drought, wind, or any other phenomenon, much like a shapeshifter. -- jim geraghty
pray to st. jude
i'm a sonic reducer
he was the gimmicky sort
fenchurch=mejusthavingfun=magwildwood=mmousefan=bkcollector=bradmajors=somethingtotalkabout: the fenchurch mpd collective
#80
Posted: 7/11/05 at 12:25am
Okay, that's fine. Don't grow up. But the only way you can do that, is to not see a movie that had some very pertinent things to say A YEAR AGO when most of us were engaging about that very movie in these threads A YEAR AGO.
You end up looking childish. "WHY is this tolerated?" Well, the short answer is: Because there are a lot of people like you.
Sorry if that's harsh, but it's the truth.
Someday, if you ever decide to grow up, you'll realize that one of the hallmarks of adulthood is that you form opinions and don't stick your head in the sand or act all wishy washy because you can't GUARANTEE that they are the correct opinions.
Another perk of adulthood is you get to have opinions that change and evolve over time. It's called growth. Clearly, something you are not interested in. So, why not climb out of the adult pool with what little dignity you have still intact?
You end up looking childish. "WHY is this tolerated?" Well, the short answer is: Because there are a lot of people like you.
Sorry if that's harsh, but it's the truth.
Someday, if you ever decide to grow up, you'll realize that one of the hallmarks of adulthood is that you form opinions and don't stick your head in the sand or act all wishy washy because you can't GUARANTEE that they are the correct opinions.
Another perk of adulthood is you get to have opinions that change and evolve over time. It's called growth. Clearly, something you are not interested in. So, why not climb out of the adult pool with what little dignity you have still intact?
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
Updated On: 7/11/05 at 12:25 AM
#81
Posted: 7/11/05 at 12:33am
I agree, Namo, that nothing being done is because of ignorant people like me.
But what about you? What have you done? If something is THAT important, if all of life revolves around politics, then how people YOU and others who believe the same gang together and storm the White House with protests on a DAILY basis? The press will surely flash your ass on the news, people will see you, learn what the deal is, and join you. Bush will be removed from office and all will be well.
Right? Or is it enough for you to only KNOW more about what's going on than others and not DO anything about it. Voting for Kerry in an election is not enough.
Put down your Honcho and PUT UP or SHUT UP.
But what about you? What have you done? If something is THAT important, if all of life revolves around politics, then how people YOU and others who believe the same gang together and storm the White House with protests on a DAILY basis? The press will surely flash your ass on the news, people will see you, learn what the deal is, and join you. Bush will be removed from office and all will be well.
Right? Or is it enough for you to only KNOW more about what's going on than others and not DO anything about it. Voting for Kerry in an election is not enough.
Put down your Honcho and PUT UP or SHUT UP.
"The Spectacle has, indeed, an emotional attraction of its own, but, of all the parts, it is the least artistic, and connected least with the art of poetry. For the power of Tragedy, we may be sure, is felt even apart from representation and actors. Besides, the production of spectacular effects depends more on the art of the stage machinist than on that of the poet."
--Aristotle
--Aristotle
#82
Posted: 7/11/05 at 12:46am
Oh. My. God.
There are times when I thought you were just emotionally stunted and developmentally stuck and yet, sort of amusing. With that last post, I no longer even think you're amusing. The little smiley face does not mitigate what you wrote in the least.
Nowhere did I say that all of life revolves around politics. What I said was that everything is political. And it is. And when I use the word "politics" I am not just talking about electoral. I'm talking about gender politics, sexual politics (my particular area of expertise), the status quo vs. a progressive vision of the world.
What I truly think is sad and pathetic about your last post, is you wondering why SOMEBODY ELSE, with friends just like them, aren't out there agitating. Are you just going to sit back and let everybody else LIVE life while you just observe from the safety of your bedroom with the Jiminy Cricket hook rug on the floor?
And if you actually think this scenario is how the world works:
"...people YOU and others who believe the same gang together and storm the White House with protests on a DAILY basis? The press will surely flash your ass on the news, people will see you, learn what the deal is, and join you. Bush will be removed from office and all will be well...."
Then I think you're in a fairly pitiful state.
I've risked arrest more times in my life standing up in public for something I believe in than you'd even believe.
There are times when I thought you were just emotionally stunted and developmentally stuck and yet, sort of amusing. With that last post, I no longer even think you're amusing. The little smiley face does not mitigate what you wrote in the least.
Nowhere did I say that all of life revolves around politics. What I said was that everything is political. And it is. And when I use the word "politics" I am not just talking about electoral. I'm talking about gender politics, sexual politics (my particular area of expertise), the status quo vs. a progressive vision of the world.
What I truly think is sad and pathetic about your last post, is you wondering why SOMEBODY ELSE, with friends just like them, aren't out there agitating. Are you just going to sit back and let everybody else LIVE life while you just observe from the safety of your bedroom with the Jiminy Cricket hook rug on the floor?
And if you actually think this scenario is how the world works:
"...people YOU and others who believe the same gang together and storm the White House with protests on a DAILY basis? The press will surely flash your ass on the news, people will see you, learn what the deal is, and join you. Bush will be removed from office and all will be well...."
Then I think you're in a fairly pitiful state.
I've risked arrest more times in my life standing up in public for something I believe in than you'd even believe.
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
#83
Posted: 7/11/05 at 1:05am
Namo, I took it to the extreme, yes. But now, let me be frank.
You say because people like me is why Bush is tolerated. But honestly, what HAVE you and others done? Back to the heart of what this thread is about, if what in Michael Moore's film is true, why is Bush still in office?
No one has yet provided a list of facts as to what in his film is misguided, incorrect, etc. So it's all true? His film showed protests of people who rallied against the decision that Bush got Florida. If Bush is THAT bad, why hasn't everyone rallied DAILY to remove him? Why isn't EVERYONE constantly DOING something instead of complaining?
The thread seems to have focuses on pro-Moore/anti-Moore and CapnHook's a loser. Well, I already know I'm a loser, you don't have to tell me twice. YOU could be lazy and say "do your own research" or not give a snot about what I think. I came here for guidance. For enlightenment.
You say because people like me is why Bush is tolerated. But honestly, what HAVE you and others done? Back to the heart of what this thread is about, if what in Michael Moore's film is true, why is Bush still in office?
No one has yet provided a list of facts as to what in his film is misguided, incorrect, etc. So it's all true? His film showed protests of people who rallied against the decision that Bush got Florida. If Bush is THAT bad, why hasn't everyone rallied DAILY to remove him? Why isn't EVERYONE constantly DOING something instead of complaining?
The thread seems to have focuses on pro-Moore/anti-Moore and CapnHook's a loser. Well, I already know I'm a loser, you don't have to tell me twice. YOU could be lazy and say "do your own research" or not give a snot about what I think. I came here for guidance. For enlightenment.
"The Spectacle has, indeed, an emotional attraction of its own, but, of all the parts, it is the least artistic, and connected least with the art of poetry. For the power of Tragedy, we may be sure, is felt even apart from representation and actors. Besides, the production of spectacular effects depends more on the art of the stage machinist than on that of the poet."
--Aristotle
--Aristotle
#84
Posted: 7/11/05 at 1:07am
Can we end this and say Capn asked a simple question with a complicated answer that arouses many emotions...not even Honcho could arise.
#85
Posted: 7/11/05 at 1:13am
I don't want to end it. The answer shouldn't be complicated. If Bush IS that bad, he would have been gone years ago. So Moore must have misguided us. He must have stretched truths, lied, etc.
I'm half-answering my own question.
I'm half-answering my own question.
"The Spectacle has, indeed, an emotional attraction of its own, but, of all the parts, it is the least artistic, and connected least with the art of poetry. For the power of Tragedy, we may be sure, is felt even apart from representation and actors. Besides, the production of spectacular effects depends more on the art of the stage machinist than on that of the poet."
--Aristotle
--Aristotle
#86
Posted: 7/11/05 at 1:15am
No, you came here for somebody to tell you what to do and to guarantee you that what they tell you is 100% correct with absolutely no margin for error.
And I have to say, there are many, many people I do feel comfortable detailing my CV of political engagement with the world. Youi're not one of them. I don't feel comfortable listing it all out for somebody who has managed to be 19, saw a year old movie, and figured that because Bush is still in office the movie must be inaccurate. It's just not the way the world works. I think you have a lot to learn about power and money and the notion of what absolute power does to people.
So I'm not going to personally be put on the defensive, writing, "Well, I did this, and I do this, and I contacted these senators about these issues and I helped organize this event for that group, which is working on this issue that means a lot to me for this reason," to somebody who seems more invested in other things in life, who doesn't give off enough energy to even qualify as a PASSIVE OBSERVER.
A rally a day does NOT get a President out of office. Did you pay attention at ALL in civics class?
And I have to say, there are many, many people I do feel comfortable detailing my CV of political engagement with the world. Youi're not one of them. I don't feel comfortable listing it all out for somebody who has managed to be 19, saw a year old movie, and figured that because Bush is still in office the movie must be inaccurate. It's just not the way the world works. I think you have a lot to learn about power and money and the notion of what absolute power does to people.
So I'm not going to personally be put on the defensive, writing, "Well, I did this, and I do this, and I contacted these senators about these issues and I helped organize this event for that group, which is working on this issue that means a lot to me for this reason," to somebody who seems more invested in other things in life, who doesn't give off enough energy to even qualify as a PASSIVE OBSERVER.
A rally a day does NOT get a President out of office. Did you pay attention at ALL in civics class?
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
#87
Posted: 7/11/05 at 1:17am
"The answer shouldn't be complicated. "
The answer is complicated. VERY complicated. There is no right answer. People who are fans of the movie will say one thing, while others will say something else.
That's why I suggest seeing Fahrenhype. Then you, and you alone, can make an informed decision.
It also doesn't help asking a "gay" community - who obviously are mainly anit-Bush.
Ask another majority, like the NRA, you may find something else. Etc.
My point, there is no simple answer no matter who you ask.
The answer is complicated. VERY complicated. There is no right answer. People who are fans of the movie will say one thing, while others will say something else.
That's why I suggest seeing Fahrenhype. Then you, and you alone, can make an informed decision.
It also doesn't help asking a "gay" community - who obviously are mainly anit-Bush.
Ask another majority, like the NRA, you may find something else. Etc.
My point, there is no simple answer no matter who you ask.
Updated On: 7/11/05 at 01:17 AM
#88
Posted: 7/11/05 at 1:20am
Namo, WHEN I saw the film is meaningless. I rented it because I AM becoming interested in politics. So long as it was seen, why keep criticizing it? I'm sorry that a year ago I was busy living a life. Trying to live a HAPPY life and not let politics muddy it up.
Congrats to everything you have done. But this thread isn't about YOU and ME. It's about America. It's about the republican whole and the democratic whole.
Congrats to everything you have done. But this thread isn't about YOU and ME. It's about America. It's about the republican whole and the democratic whole.
"The Spectacle has, indeed, an emotional attraction of its own, but, of all the parts, it is the least artistic, and connected least with the art of poetry. For the power of Tragedy, we may be sure, is felt even apart from representation and actors. Besides, the production of spectacular effects depends more on the art of the stage machinist than on that of the poet."
--Aristotle
--Aristotle
#89
Posted: 7/11/05 at 1:20am
You know, I've generally never liked you Thernadier, but with this post, I have a good concrete reason:
::It also doesn't help asking a "gay" community - who obviouly are mainly anit-Bush.::
Nobody in power should be afraid of the voices of those who are not. Unless, of course, they have completely disregarded those voices as part of the tyranny of the majority.
::It also doesn't help asking a "gay" community - who obviouly are mainly anit-Bush.::
Nobody in power should be afraid of the voices of those who are not. Unless, of course, they have completely disregarded those voices as part of the tyranny of the majority.
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
#90
Posted: 7/11/05 at 1:24am
It's OK....I have always hated you.
But I didn't mean disrespect. I meant, overall, the gay community doesn't support Bush - and this is a fact.
What I was saying is that Capn was looking for an answer and he will find two completely different ones depending on who he asks.
P.S. I didn't mean DON'T ask the gay community - I mean that finding a simple answer, as Capn wanted, is difficult to do - and isn't helped by the fact that the BWW community is generally ani-Bush.
But I didn't mean disrespect. I meant, overall, the gay community doesn't support Bush - and this is a fact.
What I was saying is that Capn was looking for an answer and he will find two completely different ones depending on who he asks.
P.S. I didn't mean DON'T ask the gay community - I mean that finding a simple answer, as Capn wanted, is difficult to do - and isn't helped by the fact that the BWW community is generally ani-Bush.
Updated On: 7/11/05 at 01:24 AM
#91
Posted: 7/11/05 at 1:37am
Well, I assume Namo has nothing left to say. At least for tonight. Apparently his beliefs are not worth attempting to recruit others for.
It's people like Namo and people like me - THAT'S the reason why Bush is still in office.
It's people like Namo and people like me - THAT'S the reason why Bush is still in office.
"The Spectacle has, indeed, an emotional attraction of its own, but, of all the parts, it is the least artistic, and connected least with the art of poetry. For the power of Tragedy, we may be sure, is felt even apart from representation and actors. Besides, the production of spectacular effects depends more on the art of the stage machinist than on that of the poet."
--Aristotle
--Aristotle
#92
Posted: 7/11/05 at 1:47am
Capn, the first thing you have to do is seriously consider what your personal values are. Tune out everyone else and honestly think about what's important to YOU and what kind of society you want to live in. What things are most important to you? Think about topics like war, civil rights, abortion, gun control, health care, immigration, the economy, taxes, Social Security, privacy rights, freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of religion, separation of church and state, and anything else important to you or that you hear people debating. YOU need to decide where you stand on issues. Then you can start considering political candidates.
If you agree with what Bush has done while in office, then that is so. You have that right. But you need to consider a bigger, much grayer picture than absolutely right or absolutely wrong.
If you agree with what Bush has done while in office, then that is so. You have that right. But you need to consider a bigger, much grayer picture than absolutely right or absolutely wrong.
#93
Posted: 7/11/05 at 1:53am
Are you completely crazy, Capn? People like Namo are responsible for Bush being in office? No. Not in the LEAST.
Bush is in office because of people who are anti-Bush who didn't get out and vote. Bush is in office because more people choose to ignore any possibility that any of what Moore and others who even Thenadier would find worthy have said is true.
Bush is in office because the U.S. has a history of not booting a President during war time.
Have you EVER been in a situation where you knew the truth abouth something, but the majority wouldn't listen--didn't believe you? I could go and stand in front of the White House and scream everyday---it won't change a thing. But, I can stay informed. I can support groups and politicians who are making a difference--either financially or by volunteer. I can VOTE.
But the truth is--millions of people DID do all that. But, millions more did just the opposite. Millions more ignored the questions posed and voted with their conservative views on the war and on homosexuality.
Bush is in office because of people who are anti-Bush who didn't get out and vote. Bush is in office because more people choose to ignore any possibility that any of what Moore and others who even Thenadier would find worthy have said is true.
Bush is in office because the U.S. has a history of not booting a President during war time.
Have you EVER been in a situation where you knew the truth abouth something, but the majority wouldn't listen--didn't believe you? I could go and stand in front of the White House and scream everyday---it won't change a thing. But, I can stay informed. I can support groups and politicians who are making a difference--either financially or by volunteer. I can VOTE.
But the truth is--millions of people DID do all that. But, millions more did just the opposite. Millions more ignored the questions posed and voted with their conservative views on the war and on homosexuality.
#94
Posted: 7/11/05 at 2:10am
Yes, people like Namo. Instead of PROMOTING his beliefs, he chose to remain quiet and attack me. "Do your own dirty work" attitude doesn't spark any interest in others.
"Bush is in office because the U.S. has a history of not booting a President during war time."
A war that HE started? So we'll let him finish what he started because he got us into a mess, now he has to get us out of it?
"Bush is in office because the U.S. has a history of not booting a President during war time."
A war that HE started? So we'll let him finish what he started because he got us into a mess, now he has to get us out of it?
"The Spectacle has, indeed, an emotional attraction of its own, but, of all the parts, it is the least artistic, and connected least with the art of poetry. For the power of Tragedy, we may be sure, is felt even apart from representation and actors. Besides, the production of spectacular effects depends more on the art of the stage machinist than on that of the poet."
--Aristotle
--Aristotle
#95
Posted: 7/11/05 at 2:13am
oh brother. What Namo wants you to do is be active--find information. Take charge.
And, no, I am not going to Cliff Notes the last 5-6 years for you--just go do some digging and see what you think.
And, no, I am not going to Cliff Notes the last 5-6 years for you--just go do some digging and see what you think.
#96
Posted: 7/11/05 at 2:25am
Yes, I understand that, and I am beginning to do so. But why not share what inaccuracies Moore includes in his film? Why not give your opinion on why Bush is still in office?
This entire thread has turned into one big negative mess. This is what turns me away from politics. My step-grandmother has gotten many heart attacks because of political debates. She has such hatred for Bush, if you even MENTION any keyword in any hot topic, she will go on and on and not stop. Even if you agree with her.
I only see politics bring the worse in people. Point proven with this thread. Why should I want to be a part of it?
I'll have my own opinions, and I'll vote, but this post ends my debating. No one wants to understand, no one cares, they just hate.
This entire thread has turned into one big negative mess. This is what turns me away from politics. My step-grandmother has gotten many heart attacks because of political debates. She has such hatred for Bush, if you even MENTION any keyword in any hot topic, she will go on and on and not stop. Even if you agree with her.
I only see politics bring the worse in people. Point proven with this thread. Why should I want to be a part of it?
I'll have my own opinions, and I'll vote, but this post ends my debating. No one wants to understand, no one cares, they just hate.
"The Spectacle has, indeed, an emotional attraction of its own, but, of all the parts, it is the least artistic, and connected least with the art of poetry. For the power of Tragedy, we may be sure, is felt even apart from representation and actors. Besides, the production of spectacular effects depends more on the art of the stage machinist than on that of the poet."
--Aristotle
--Aristotle
#97
Posted: 7/11/05 at 2:43am
"Why not give your opinion on why Bush is still in office?"
Probably because most people on this board feel he shouldn't still be in office. Most people on this board don't have their opinions shaped by just a Michael Moore film. Bush did not win every state in the election. If you want a justification for why he is still in office go ask on a board dominated by Texans, Floridians, or residents of a state Bush won.
Probably because most people on this board feel he shouldn't still be in office. Most people on this board don't have their opinions shaped by just a Michael Moore film. Bush did not win every state in the election. If you want a justification for why he is still in office go ask on a board dominated by Texans, Floridians, or residents of a state Bush won.
#98
Posted: 7/11/05 at 2:45am
and did I NOT post why I think he is still in office?
It sure is dense in here...
It sure is dense in here...
#99
Posted: 7/11/05 at 2:48am
jrb - yes, YOU did, and after all this hate.
Yes, it certainly IS dense...
Yes, it certainly IS dense...
"The Spectacle has, indeed, an emotional attraction of its own, but, of all the parts, it is the least artistic, and connected least with the art of poetry. For the power of Tragedy, we may be sure, is felt even apart from representation and actors. Besides, the production of spectacular effects depends more on the art of the stage machinist than on that of the poet."
--Aristotle
--Aristotle
#100
Posted: 7/11/05 at 2:56am
PS.
"I only see politics bring the worse in people. Point proven with this thread. Why should I want to be a part of it?"
As long as you live here you have no other option. Even turning your back and walking away from what you see, good or bad, is political.
"I only see politics bring the worse in people. Point proven with this thread. Why should I want to be a part of it?"
As long as you live here you have no other option. Even turning your back and walking away from what you see, good or bad, is political.
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