WHY is this tolerated? (In response to Fahrenheit 9/11)- Page 3

[Thenardier]

Posted: 7/10/05 at 7:40pm

As I always said:

The country had to choose between a donkey and a monkey. The country decided not to have the ass.

[Greekmusicalfan]

Posted: 7/10/05 at 7:41pm

Well, I know the uproar for his first election, but I thought his second one was quite clear, wasn't it ? OMG, I never in a million years imagined I'd be defending Bush !!! jrb what have you done to me ?

[jrb_actor]

Posted: 7/10/05 at 7:42pm

All I'm saying is 40 million paperless votes on machines built and programmed by Bush loving Diebold and exit polls differing from results pretty much only in swing states...

[Thenardier]

Posted: 7/10/05 at 7:42pm

He makes you see the extreme of false and true.

Like a normal person, you chose to go against him and defend what is true (not that it necessarily means it is right).

[Craig]

Posted: 7/10/05 at 8:28pm

Regardless of what you think about Moore or the other film matters less than the simple fact that both movies pose questions worth asking. You don't have to like Moore - or even believe him - but the questions F9/11 raise are important to explore. Just raising awareness and getting people to actually FIND OUT what's going on in our government and in the world are Moore's crowning achievement - not the film. Case in point - CapnHook...

[Gothampc]

Posted: 7/10/05 at 8:39pm

Capn, as has been previously stated, the movie has been cut so that the facts are blurry. If Moore had any real facts, he wouldn't have had to cut the movie in the way that he did. The Democrats got so excited, that they crowned Moore a king and invited him to the Democratic National Convention. At the DNC, they sat him next to former President Jimmy Carter which, even though Carter was the worst president ever, was an insult to Mr. Carter.

[CapnHook]

Posted: 7/10/05 at 8:54pm

"Regardless of what you think about Moore or the other film matters less than the simple fact that both movies pose questions worth asking. You don't have to like Moore - or even believe him - but the questions F9/11 raise are important to explore. Just raising awareness and getting people to actually FIND OUT what's going on in our government and in the world are Moore's crowning achievement - not the film. Case in point - CapnHook..."

Very well put, Craig!

[PalJoey]

Posted: 7/10/05 at 9:32pm

"Carter was the worst president ever"

Um, Goth... I think Bush has pretty much stolen that title.

[amasis]

Posted: 7/10/05 at 9:40pm

Until something happens that affects me personally, I have no opinion.

I think waiting until something affects you personally before getting yourself educated on the issues and trying to find what's acceptable and not acceptable would be much too late.

You're not supposed to just believe what everyone tells you. Okay, so Michael Moore was biased in his movie. But he asked some good questions. Now you can go out and do your own research.

Updated On: 7/10/05 at 09:40 PM

[CapnHook]

Posted: 7/10/05 at 9:45pm

"You're not supposed to just believe everyone tells you. Okay, so Michael Moore was biased in his movie. But he asked some good questions. Now you can go out and do your own research."

That's just it. What can we believe? What information is available? Is it truthful? What information is NOT available?

Yes, I'll keep up on what's happening, but I can't see how I can form opinion on misinformation.

[Justice]

Posted: 7/10/05 at 9:50pm

"The film depicts that they were NEVER a threat. That Saddam Heussin was NEVER a threat."

Actually, Hussein was only a threat to HIS people. That has been proven, considering we have YET to find those weapons he was SUPPOSEDLY using to attack us...

Updated On: 7/10/05 at 09:50 PM

[Delphine]

Posted: 7/10/05 at 9:54pm

If you all haven't already seen it, I highly recommend Uncovered: The Truth About the War in Iraq ( http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B0001IXT36/qid=1121046727/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/002-8323182-5442405?v=glance&s=dvd ). It's a shocking documentary on the lies that make up the Iraq war. It's just fact after fact that really paints a vivid portrait of the Bush Administration. It's everything Farenheit 9/11 (which I grealt enjoyed) should have been.

Posted: 7/10/05 at 10:01pm

Couple things Gotham: Why shouldn't the Democrats have Michael Moore at their convention? I believe he was there covering it for some articles-- Ann Coulter was there too, actually. What should they do, stand at the door and turn him away?

Second, calling Carter the worst president ever is a stretch beyond the pale, like calling Chicken Pox the worst disease ever.

True, he did not accomplish as much as I would have liked, and he did lose a decisive election to Ron Reagan, but he was honest, worked hard and did his best. He also, unlike Mr. Reagan, kept his word not to negotiate with terrorists.

You truly can't compare Carter's failings with say, Hoover, who sank the country into a great depression or Harding who was corrupt and dishonest.

[Broadway_Bound_Star]

Posted: 7/10/05 at 10:09pm

Yeah, true, true I'm kinda not about politics so its not my place to say anything

[LongIsland Grl]

Posted: 7/10/05 at 10:51pm

"I would like to add Michael Moore's biggest fans are in European countried like Germany and France....countries that have hated America before Bush was even born."

I mostly lurk on this board but whenever I hear something like this I just HAVE TO say something. France does not hate us. I have traveled to France 4 times in my 25 years. They just don't agree with us about Iraq. They have a right to....THERE WERE NO WMD's and they knew it. When I was there, I visited cemetaries that have all the graves for the American soilders that died in WWII. The caretakers at those cemetaries are very serious about their jobs. There are American flags flying all over the place. They keep a database of all the information they can find out about each soilder, if he has been identified.

What the French people don't like is snotty Americans who go there and get pissed off when the hotel staff or someone they need to say something to doesn't speak English. All you have to do is learn how to say in French that you are traveling from the US and could you please speak to someone who speaks English and they will happily help you.

France is my favorite place to visit. It is beautiful and I always have a wonderful time. They don't deserve the bad rap they get just because people are ignorant.
Updated On: 7/10/05 at 10:51 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/10/05 at 11:11pm

I'm sorry Capn but just about every single post of yours in this thread makes me want to effin puke.

"OOoooo, I'm 19 and know nothing of politics."

Why THE HELL do you know nothing of politics? You've been old enough to VOTE for a year. Sept 11 happened when you were 15? That's a hell of a lot older than FIVE, which is how many years old you sound in this thread.

I know you've immersed yourself in Disneyana, but Jesus Christ, by the time I was 15 I had a damn good idea of news sources I could basically trust or not. Ignorance is absolutlely no excuse and I think your lack of awareness is pretty shameful. Trying to pass it off as, "Well, I mean, I would HAVE opinions if I knew that the information I had was correct" completely ABSOLVES you of any responsibility to develop and use your critical thinking skills. BUT FOR GOD'S SAKE, you're NOW talking about a movie that was released a YEAR AGO? Meanwhile you pre-order every friggin Disney Deluxe DVD RERERERERE-ISSUE? Christ. Almighty.

Maybe you should just go bury your head in your obligatory Simba pillow and keep your fingers crossed that everything will turn out all right in the end, just like your favorite Disney features.

And, PS: When did people come to believe that "documentary" means "devoid of a point of view????" It's a "document." Documents generally have points of view.

[Thenardier]

Posted: 7/10/05 at 11:20pm

"Regardless of what you think about Moore or the other film matters less than the simple fact that both movies pose questions worth asking. You don't have to like Moore - or even believe him - but the questions F9/11 raise are important to explore. Just raising awareness and getting people to actually FIND OUT what's going on in our government and in the world are Moore's crowning achievement - not the film."

Maybe, Craig. But based on the reaction to the movie, the majority took it as fact.

Not many went and did the research and I doubt that it was Moore's intention, no matter what he says.

As I said, when Bush won, Moore's attitude AND appearance completely changed.


LongIsland Girl - I have friends in France. The people don't hate us (overall). The government does. The government's decision shows it hates us.

Updated On: 7/10/05 at 11:20 PM

[Eliza0114]

Posted: 7/10/05 at 11:22pm

Moore did not want the film to be a political statement, persay. he wanted to make a good movie. watch the extras...

[nystateomind04]

Posted: 7/10/05 at 11:29pm

"LongIsland Girl - I have friends in France. The people don't hate us (overall). The government does. The government's decision shows it hates us."

No, contrary to what many people in this country believe, a country refusing to back us on a decision to go to war on a country that has never attacked us does not mean that they "hate us". It means that they disagree. I disagree, does that mean that I hate all Americans?

"As I said, when Bush one, Moore's attitude AND appearance completely changed."

When Bush one? Two... three.. four???

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/10/05 at 11:29pm

"The government's decision shows it hates us."

WHICH decision, Thenardier?????? And now that Bush is breaking baguetee with Cherac, is it okay to call them French Fries again?????

[nystateomind04]

Posted: 7/10/05 at 11:36pm

The entire anti-French thing is EXACTLY what is wrong with this country when conservatism is plauging the White House. The use of the phrase "anti-American" in this country now is just out of control.

[Thenardier]

Posted: 7/10/05 at 11:39pm

I am not anti-France.

And anything Moore says goes in one ear, gets pounded by a sledgehammer, and disposed out my arse.

Namo - I sure hope so. I can't keep hearing McDonald's ask me "Would you like Freedom Fries with that?"

[CapnHook]

Posted: 7/10/05 at 11:46pm

Every time I post I look forward to a response from my buddy Namo!

Congrats on having some political sense at 15. I, however, did not and do not.

I find it unfair to bash me on my choice not to follow politics. I agree, I should follow what is happening more closely. But I just don't know who to trust.

You say you know who? Go ahead, please list some sources.

[Pinguin]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 12:04am

HA, I think France has plenty of its own problems right now and are probably less concerned about President Bush at the MOMENT, anyway. Chirac is losing steam in his country because of the EU business and the face that they're country is being flooded by immigrants and they don't know what to do about it; I don't think he'll be there for long.

It'll be interesting to see what happens if/when he's replaced.




And another note; Democrats need to start winning elections if they want to change policy, PERIOD. They need to produce results because everyone can be as discontent as they want but they have to be voted in to be able to do anything about it. I don't understand why the party is having such a hard time getting people elected; the populace in polls seems unhappy, but they aren't voting Democrat. The Dems have to step it up.



I'm thinking of turning anarchist :0)

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 7/11/05 at 12:16am

"I find it unfair to bash me on my choice not to follow politics."

"Unfair?" "Unfair" is the lament of a child.

You live in a politcal world, you are inherently a political creature. Every work of art is political, even if in its politics it upholds the status quo (that would be CONSERVATIVE art, that would be your beloved DISNEY).

And unfortunately you're being LAZY in asking me or anybody else to tell you whom to trust. Do your own work. Develop your big boy skills. Learn how to THINK CRITICALLY. And trust NOBODY. No one source gets it right all the time. You have to ENGAGE with the world and read as much as you can get your hands on.

But Jesus Christ, I had a subscription to Rolling Stone at 13 and The Village Voice at 14.