Whiplash- Page 2
Whiplash
#26Whiplash
Posted: 2/2/15 at 1:06pmIf they benefit the school in a major way (such as winning world competition titles and even Grammy awards), universities often look the other way (and students rarely report it). Any student coming forward to report it could be victimized by other students as well if word gets out.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
Roscoe
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/15/03
#27Whiplash
Posted: 2/2/15 at 1:51pm
A musician/music teacher friend of mine passed this on about the film:
An interesting take on Whiplash from a music teacher at USC
"If they can get you asking the wrong questions, they don't have to worry about the answers." Thomas Pynchon, GRAVITY'S RAINBOW
"Reality is that which, when you stop believing in it, doesn't go away." Philip K. Dick
My blog: http://www.roscoewrites.blogspot.com/
#28Whiplash
Posted: 2/2/15 at 2:06pm
Nice article, but it's a shame that he assumes his experience defines the experiences of others:
Being a jerk is, ultimately, self-defeating in music education: for one thing, the band will not respond well; secondly, such bandleaders are anathema to the other educators who ultimately wind up acting as judges in competitive music festivals -- such bands will never win (the judges will see to that).
This is the polar opposite of my experience.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
Mr Roxy
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/17/03
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#33Whiplash
Posted: 2/4/15 at 2:26pm
I FINALLY went to see this today and I "liked" it, I guess.
Like Phyllis said, the movie is completely unbelievable in almost every way, to the point where it makes the unanimous raves it's getting seem a bit odd to me. The first second he slapped the kid, I was kind of taken out of it because it's just so unbelievable. We're not watching a movie about a mean NFL football coach, but a jazz musician whose importance is never really defined. Was he this amazing musician in the past or is he just some teacher? Because the importance put upon him by the students was never explained in a way that justified his insane behavior. That said, he was just a vile character who only really showed some range outside of that in the last 15 minutes of the film, so again while he was very good, I can't fully get behind this love parade for Simmons' performance. Teller, to me, was the real star of the film and it was great to see him get a chance to do something other than "teen movies".
#34Whiplash
Posted: 2/4/15 at 2:55pm
The first second he slapped the kid, I was kind of taken out of it because it's just so unbelievable. We're not watching a movie about a mean NFL football coach, but a jazz musician whose importance is never really defined. Was he this amazing musician in the past or is he just some teacher?
I guess maybe it's more realistic if you've had exposure to the world of music education, conservatories or top university music programs in the country (jazz or classical)? Especially those requiring a high level of competition fostered by the department. I can't speak to how prevalent it is across the country, but I can say the character of the instructor doesn't appear to be too wildly far-fetched. We've seen this type of "teacher" portrayed in sports and theatre and performing arts, so I'm not sure why the predominantly male-driven genre of jazz would be unbelievable. To me, only the car crash and perhaps the final scene were unrealistic. The rest was unnerving in the memories that came rushing back from my experience. Of course, that was in the late 80s and perhaps things have changed considerably or perhaps in the present context it seems more unthinkable.
As for the character of the instructor and his reputation, the film provided enough information for me to understand the character in the behavior of the students, clues in his office, and his dialogue of his own relationships with musicians, students and history of winning competitions. What I thought was particularly brilliant about his performance was how naturally he picked up the physical language of music conducting. Not only conducting in general, but specific to jazz. The scenes drilling the drummers (and other musicians) were brilliant in the symbiosis of the conductor/musician relationship. It's not that easy for an actor to pull off so convincingly.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
Updated On: 2/4/15 at 02:55 PM
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#37Whiplash
Posted: 2/4/15 at 3:13pm
***SPOILER***
From the beginning of that final concert, the story descended into a fairy tale. The Simmons character would never have risked an important performance by pulling that stunt.
"What can you expect from a bunch of seitan worshippers?" - Reginald Tresilian
Fantod
Broadway Legend Joined: 10/3/14
#39Whiplash
Posted: 2/16/15 at 7:50am
I finally saw this and found it to be absolutely fascinating. It defied my expectations the entire way through, even after (accidentally) reading about several key plot points and analyses on here and other places on the Internet. I argued with myself about it long after it was over.
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#41Whiplash
Posted: 2/16/15 at 10:56am
And I think Mister Matt is spot on about the movie becoming a fairy tale. In fact, I think the entire thing moves inexorably in that direction from the beginning, which is why I never objected to the increasingly outlandish events and behaviors. By the time we get to that final drum solo, we are nowhere near the real world as we saw it in the movie’s opening scenes, and in that way, in hindsight, I’ve been thinking of the story as a parable.
The movie in no way condones Fletcher’s abuse. My concerns about that were called into question when April Grace shows up to **SPOILER** discuss Fletcher’s former student who committed suicide. And when Andrew meets Fletcher in the bar later and bitterly asks him where the line is, I knew I wasn’t watching a movie about the ends justifying the means, but a movie asking us when they do.
We see what Andrew does to himself, physically, socially, and psychologically. It’s ugly and frightening – and yet how can we not cheer what comes out of him in the movie’s last 10 minutes? Sure, part of it is him finally showing Fletcher what’s what (a problematic position to take because isn’t Fletcher still the root of this behavior?), but part of it is also the possibility that he’s just performed something akin to the Charlie Parker solo, which Fletcher earlier described – and I’m paraphrasing – as the “greatest solo ever.”
I’m pretty sure the movie wants us to be troubled by our own reaction to that possibility.
It put me in mind of the mid-2000s documentaries “My Kid Could Paint That” and “Who the #$&% Is Jackson Pollock?” which asks very similar questions about the value we put on great art.
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#43Whiplash
Posted: 2/16/15 at 11:37amAnd if there's any question in your mind about the veracity of the story of Whiplash, there shouldn't be, when Andrew gets into a big car crash, yet crawls out of it, bleeding, and runs through the city to get to his position at the drums on time.
<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES
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