clinton vs. sanders your vote?- Page 88

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/3/16 at 1:56pm

I said "which is a good thing" in this very thread!!! 

 

To me the saddest thing so far has been watching the pre-packaged Republican line about the unrelenting pure evil of Hillary has be taken on and propagated by so many of these folks, which was the intent when it was first introduced.  Brought to this very website, and pointed out immediately by a few of us, by LiarsHeadband, who became a political scold who ADMITTEDLY DOES NOT VOTE.

 

Topsy turvy world.

Updated On: 3/3/16 at 01:56 PM

[madbrian]

Posted: 3/3/16 at 2:20pm

History will not be kind to the GOP of the past 15 years.  Historians will see a party that self-destructed, that ceded the political center to the Dems.  For years, the GOP has claimed that we are a "center-right" country.  Perhaps, but they've tripped over themselves trying to be more and more politically pure that they're approaching fascism.  All the while, President Obama has run a centrist administration, and no one has noticed.  Not the GOP, and certainly not the media.  Sure, there have certainly been progressive accomplishments over the last 7+ years, but his greatest accomplishment, the Affordable Care Act, is essentially a conservative solution.  Don't believe me?  Go back to the rhetoric of the early days of the 2008 election cycle, and you'll see that the ACA includes many/most/all of the concepts that the GOP were promoting.  In addition, the stimulus plan was far more conservative than liberals wanted at the time, and many/most/all liberals opposed the bailout of the auto industry.  But the GOP was too concerned with denying Obama a 2nd term to acknowledge this, so they had to move even further out to the fringe.

 

In the short run, I am glad that the Dems are able to benefit from the GOP's myopia.  However, in the long run, the demise of the GOP is dangerous to our country.  We need a serious discussion about serious issues, and that is impossible in our current political environment.

Updated On: 3/3/16 at 02:20 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/3/16 at 2:26pm

Now that Romney is clearly hoping he is going to repeat his Salt Lake City Olympics Savior mythology, will he have to walk back (yet again!) his attempts to undermine Obama's achievement with the ACA when he exclaimed, "I invented that!"??????

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 3/3/16 at 2:51pm

HuffPo has called the race for Bernie.  Sorry, guys. It's over!

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/3/16 at 2:53pm

Weird.  Ann Coulter gave the presidency to Trump a moment after the Paris terror attacks.

 

I guess we can just call it a day.

[javero]

Posted: 3/3/16 at 3:03pm

Funny you should mention Ann Coulter, Namo.  Someone at work and I were pondering the public's likely reaction to Trump trying to nominate her to the Supreme Court.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/3/16 at 3:05pm

Would she be allowed to chain smoke through the confirmation hearings?

[StageManager2]

Posted: 3/3/16 at 3:36pm

PRS, how can he be allowed to print such nonsense, especially on the Huffington Post?

[tazber]

Posted: 3/3/16 at 3:36pm

There is an (anecdotal) group of GOP elders who have been strategically working to position Romney as the candidate at a brokered convention.

 

 

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 3/3/16 at 3:47pm

StageManager2 said: "PRS, how can he be allowed to print such nonsense, especially on the Huffington Post?

 

I think for a lot of Barney's supporters, this is the first time they've paid any attention, so they really don't understand how everything works. 

 

[StageManager2]

Posted: 3/3/16 at 4:09pm

I found this:

 

Immunity means the Justice Department must forego bringing a case against him, but if the DOJ thought they had a case against Pagliano, they would not grant him immunity. They would prosecute that case, or else make a plea deal which could include the grant of immunity. They are granting him immunity because there is no case they are foregoing, so, this way, he can and will give them evidence.

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/charlestiefer/2016/03/02/immunity-for-bryan-pagliano-will-help-end-the-hillary-clinton-email-inquiry/#389a78552dbc

[binau]

Posted: 3/3/16 at 4:41pm

In a general election, Trump is going to be absolutely ruthless and exploit Hillary's criminal scandals and her husband's perceived immorality. As Trump has said, "I haven't even started on her yet". She is lucky that Bernie is of a higher calibre than he is. Given the close polls between Hillary and Trump at the moment, this election is feeling a little scary. 

 

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 3/3/16 at 4:48pm

Which criminal scandals?

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 3/3/16 at 4:55pm

javero said: "Funny you should mention Ann Coulter, Namo.  Someone at work and I were pondering the public's likely reaction to Trump trying to nominate her to the Supreme Court."

I thought she was going to be trumps running mate. Just imagine Anne coulter as head of the senate. Omfg 

[javero]

Posted: 3/3/16 at 5:08pm

"She is lucky that Bernie is of a higher calibre than he is."

 

I'd suggest that he's been the lucky one so far.  For the most part, the Clintons and Hillary's surrogates have played nice.  This is his first real exposure to scrutiny at the national level and even that's been blunted considerably by the barrage of attacks from the GOP on the presumptive nominee Hillary .  Regardless of who sews up the Democratic nomination, it's likely to be one of the nastiest general elections in history.

 

In 2008 the upstart Obama didn't have an extensive record that could be used against him.  On the contrary, the 4 leading contenders in this cycle on both sides have loads of negatives between them that are ripe for exploitation by the opposition.  

 

ETA: A colleague is convinced that Obama will be forced to make a recess appointment to the Supreme Court as insurance in the event the election should be decided there akin to Bush v. Gore.  I don't fully understand the time line where that's feasible though.

Updated On: 3/3/16 at 05:08 PM

[wonderfulwizard11]

Posted: 3/3/16 at 5:32pm

I really don't have a dog in this fight, in that I think both Democratic candidates are generally very good- both are flawed in their own ways, but I'd be perfectly happy voting for either in a general election. That said, I am so tired of seeing those damn polls trotted out that show both candidates in head to head match-ups with the Republicans. I'm sure the polls are accurate, but they're pretty useless indicators of who will actually win in November. However, a lot of the Sanders supporters on my Facebook feed get kind of smug about posting them, as if a poll conducted at the end of February is gospel. I'm all for being enthusiastic about one's chosen candidate, but a lot of that behavior is really off-putting, especially because it's clear to me that Sanders is a stand-up person and someone who is absolutely to be admired. 

[StageManager2]

Posted: 3/3/16 at 5:43pm

In a general election, Trump is going to be absolutely ruthless and exploit Hillary's criminal scandals and her husband's perceived immorality. As Trump has said, "I haven't even started on her yet". 

 

Trump is going to have to be very careful how he approaches Hillary, especially during the debates -- and, yes, it's because she's a woman. A grandmother, to boot. He can't talk to her like he did Rubio, Cruz, and Jeb, slinging insults about her appearance and calling her vile names to cover up the fact that he has nothing substantial to say. His base may love it, but the general public won't. During the 2000 NY Senate debates, Republican Rick Lazio tried to throw his weight around and approached Hillary's podium, and that backfired big time. He lost the female vote after that. And Lazio was very tame compared to Trump.

[South Florida]

Posted: 3/3/16 at 6:26pm

The disgust over DWS.....thank you.  I live here in her district.

[javero]

Posted: 3/3/16 at 6:30pm

 "I'm all for being enthusiastic about one's chosen candidate, but a lot of that behavior is really off-putting, especially because it's clear to me that Sanders is a stand-up person and someone who is absolutely to be admired."

 

I too believe that Sanders is a stand-up person despite his not being my choice for POTUS.  He seems almost too nice to seek the office.  Characterizing his attributes as negatives was definitely a poor choice of words.  A more fitting description would be vulnerabilities in the context of the general election.  I wish him the best regardless of the outcome.  He and his wife Jane don't deserve what the GOP has in store for them if he sews up the nomination.  It's all old hat for the Clintons at this point.

Updated On: 3/3/16 at 06:30 PM

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 3/3/16 at 7:08pm

^^^^^^

Agree completely.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/3/16 at 7:22pm

These Republican Trojan "concerns" like the above mention "criminal" bs is what I am so sick of. 

[South Florida]

Posted: 3/3/16 at 10:22pm

Republican debates make me happy.

 

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/3/16 at 11:14pm

Yes, well, XTC wrote a perfect song about you.

 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9t2j8NcVpW4

[binau]

Posted: 3/4/16 at 2:11am

"These Republican Trojan "concerns" like the above mention "criminal" bs is what I am so sick of. "

 

As far as I understand, Hillary is not a convicted criminal. However, Hillary is currently involved in an FBI investigation (with recent publicity suggesting it is a criminal investigation), and has been involved in several different types of scandals in the past. As far as I understand, this is simply factual not "BS". Could the negative publicity from these scandals potentially be one reason why in nearly every poll Bernie Sanders beats Trump with a greater margin than Hillary Clinton?

 

Or perhaps another reason is because many Americans think that Hillary is a dishonest person (polling evidence). Perhaps reinforced by some recent behaviour - only a few weeks ago she said she would "look into" releasing transcripts of the Wall Street speeches she gave but shamelessly has not released anything despite repeated requests from the Sanders campaign. It is extremely suspicious - if she had nothing to hide she'd release them. And indeed, some recent anecdotes from those who were in attendance have spelled out exactly why she isn't releasing them:

 

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/hillary-clinton-speeches-on-wall-street-2016-2?r=US&IR=T

I don't necessarily agree with the sentiment that "Hillary is THE MOST CORRUPT AND EVIL LYING LIAR IN THE HISTORY OF HUMANITY". But let's also not engage in blind fandom and pretend she is Mother Teresa. 

Bernie has better policies, is perceived as more honest and trustworthy, and currently seems to have the best chance of beating the republican nominee. It sounds like a no-brainer to vote for Bernie Sanders. I can understand the criticism RE: "getting things done", though. Bernie has said in previous interviews that he doesn't expect universal health care "on day one", perhaps he can be clearer about the trajectory of compromises he would be willing to accept to pass bills. 

Updated On: 3/4/16 at 02:11 AM

[BrerBear]

Posted: 3/4/16 at 2:47am

qolbinau said: ""Could the negative publicity from these scandals potentially be one reason why in nearly every poll Bernie Sanders beats Trump with a greater margin than Hillary Clinton?"

Not really. The reason Sanders beats anyone in polls is because no one has attacked him. And as a result, the general public doesn't even really know him. He has a long way to fall when/if that starts.

 

Reminder: Gallup's polls show that most Americans would not consider voting for a socialist for President. Americans would more likely support a Muslim or an Atheist than a socialist.

 

Bernie has faced almost zero scrutiny to this point. HRC and her campaign have rightly been nice to him. As have Republicans, who want Sanders as strong as possible for now to keep heat on Clinton. But Sanders' positions of socialism, raising taxes on almost all citizens, and greatly increasing the size of government are not popular. The populace at large knows Sanders as a crusty old gentleman who is sincere and wants to help the less fortunate. And he's popular with the kids.

 

But his policies under scrutiny will cause his support to wither. And that's just assuming he doesn't have skeletons in his closet we haven't heard about (there are rumors).

In short: Sanders numbers are artificially high because he is largely unknown.

Updated On: 3/4/16 at 02:47 AM