clinton vs. sanders your vote?- Page 86

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/2/16 at 3:39pm

And the PUMA True Bernievers are magnifying it to such an absurd degree it would be funny if it weren't so dangerous.  A young, dedicated feminist I know was railing so much against Clinton on FB yesterday I had to keep looking at the name to make sure it wasn't some misogynist relative of mine I forgot I had friended in the distant past.  The vitriol is expanding like yeast, not to new people, but among the same people who had never been excited about politics before and who reacted with an "Oh, cool" when some senator from the state where they like to camp and smoke pot announced he was running.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/2/16 at 4:00pm

Same feminist FB friend just went on a tear because of similarities between something Hillary's account tweeted out late last night and something Bernie's account tweeted out about six hours before.  AT THE VERY LEAST, she is informing the world, Hillary's SPEECH WRITER SHOULD BE FIRED (as if that's who runs the Twitter account) and Hillary [the evilest woman the world has ever known (I'm paraphrasing)] must be held accountable FOR PLAGIARISM.

 

For a tweet.  In which both expressed the belief that this country belongs to all of us.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 3/2/16 at 4:22pm

 

As of today:

 

Hillary has 577 delegates (486 gained from Super Tuesday) plus an additional 457 superdelegates

Bernie has 386 delegates (321 gained from Super Tuesday) plus an additional 22 superdelegates

The nominee must have: 2,383 delegates.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 3/2/16 at 4:29pm

I honestly think that if the election is Sanders vs. Trump a third party Independent/GOP candidate would in fact enter the race, and most likely win. In a Trump/Clinton race, I think that is far less likely, and most sane GOP members would support Clinton over Trump.  I honestly do not believe that Bernie, in a General Election, would be able to retain broad enough support to win.  Clinton has been respectful of his work and his positions, and agrees to a large extent with many of them  The same cannot be said of those in the GOP.  The GOP machine that has large portions of our population convinced that Obama is a Kenya Socialist Muslim, I can only imagine what they would do with an actual Socialist Jew.  

 

[BrerBear]

Posted: 3/2/16 at 4:35pm

best12bars said: "And YES, this is a generational thing. Call me ageist if you want, but it's blatantly clear to me. Most older Democrats don't act this way. I believe it's not only social media but the media in general and all of these interactive "reality show" competitions on TV that have turned true reality into a deranged sporting event. This is a learned and nurtured behavior. These "fans" of teams are disgusting and represent the worst of American citizens."

I could not agree more. I participate in discussion groups that trend younger (late teens / 20s, mostly gaming), and the vitriol from Sanders' supporters is shocking. Yesterday I saw Clinton referred to as "evil", "waste of life", and "the antichrist" by voters who consider themselves progressive Sanders supporters. They are so wrapped up in the tribalism that they consider her an enemy that must be destroyed by any means because she stands in the way of their man.

I've never seen this before in my decades of political activity. It is absolutely real.

[Lavieboheme3090]

Posted: 3/2/16 at 4:40pm

I was told by someone today that Hillary's win didn't matter, because democrats in the south don't count. And when I reminded them that there are plenty of Democrats in the south that are helping escort women into planned parenthood and running LGTBQ centers are great personal risk to themselves. He responded "they should work harder." 

[StageManager2]

Posted: 3/2/16 at 4:45pm

I could not agree more. I participate in discussion groups that trend younger (late teens / 20s, mostly gaming), and the vitriol from Sanders' supporters is shocking. Yesterday I saw Clinton referred to as "evil", "waste of life", and "the antichrist" by voters who consider themselves progressive Sanders supporters. They are so wrapped up in the tribalism that they consider her an enemy that must be destroyed by any means because she stands in the way of their man.

 

As my grandmother used to say: The political spectrum is not a line but a circle -- the farther left or right you go, it's all the same.

Updated On: 3/2/16 at 04:45 PM

[javero]

Posted: 3/2/16 at 4:49pm

"I was told by someone today that Hillary's win didn't matter, because democrats in the south don't count."

 

That's why I wrote earlier..neither Trump nor Hillary is a regional player..

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/2/16 at 5:03pm

Yesterday I saw Clinton referred to as "evil", "waste of life", and "the antichrist" by voters who consider themselves progressive Sanders supporters.

 

I say this in all sincerity.  They must be connected to Liza'sHeadband.

[best12bars]

Posted: 3/2/16 at 5:04pm

Thanks for the additional insight BrerBear. And SM2 you are right, the extremists are the issue ... in both parties! They aren't rational and aren't even supporting a cause. They support a single do-or-die-extreme candidate with unrealistic, shortsighted (yet perceived as visionary) goals that could never be implemented. But nothing else matters to the extremists because all their "good buttons" are being pushed. Even the true ideals of "liberal" and "conservative" are lost. Their political beliefs have little to do with reality or human nature, let alone politics, which is the real "game" in question.

 

Sanders and Trump are extremists that would flounder in a daily political arena as commander-in-chief. They would amass such animosity from congress and the supreme court, as well as international leaders, that it would make Obama's presidency look calm and agreeable by comparison. They would be eaten alive by the "system" that they both want to shake up. How exactly would they shake it up? By yelling? A president doesn't rule absolutely. There is a system of checks and balances that they can't overrun or ignore or blast through. Obama and Clinton understand how to get things done and move the country ahead (sometimes kicking and screaming) through compromise and by "playing the game" at least to get the ball rolling. One deadlocked face-off after another is all we would get from the extreme candidates, should either of them be elected.

 

I can tell you that if Sanders got the nomination (which is doubtful at this point) he would have my vote. But until that time, Clinton has my support and my vote. She will do a lot to advance this country in the right direction and she understands how to play in the system. "Thinking outside the box" is easy. Just shoot your mouth off. Try "thinking INSIDE the box." It's much harder, but it's the reality of the political arena.

Updated On: 3/2/16 at 05:04 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/2/16 at 5:10pm

I have a hard time seeing Trump and Sanders as two sides of the same coin.   Sanders, despite the True Berniever's denial of this, also has a lot of skill at playing the game.  He's a career politician.  It's just small potatoes politics compared to Clinton.  The real similarity I see is between the most ardent and vitriolic Sanders supporters and Tea Baggers.  (Note to SouthFlorida:  Do not translate this as "Too many people hate Hillary so vote for Bernie."  Thanks in advance.)  

[best12bars]

Posted: 3/2/16 at 5:19pm

I should be clear here ... I see far more similarities in the supporters of the two extreme candidates than I do in the candidates themselves.

[javero]

Posted: 3/2/16 at 5:47pm

"He's a career politician.  It's just small potatoes politics compared to Clinton."

 

Neither Trump nor Sanders is beholden to the establishment within their respective parties, at least not while seeking the party nomination.  That to me is the commonality.  I don't recall an election cycle in the past when at least one legitimate contender from each side of the ledger renounced the party's war chest to finance their respective campaigns.  Philosophically, the two men are the antithesis of one another which makes for an interesting match up, at least on paper.

 

Both Trump and Sanders have plenty of money from independent sources so the presumption is that neither could be bought by moneyed-interests once elected and sworn in as POTUS, in principle.  The flip side is that if either Trump or Sanders were to lose the bid for the White House after sealing the nomination, their respective parties could wash their hands of them easily.  With a combined age of 143, this is arguably their last shot at the WH.  Trump's ego couldn't survive a loss in this cycle and Bernie will be 78 four years from now.  Time is on neither man's side.

 

Cruz owes his allegiance to the Tea Party and a bloc of evangelicals both of which are intransigent.  Nevertheless , at 45 yrs old he still has time to recover from a primary (or convention) defeat this go round.  He could easily become the presumptive GOP front-runner when Hillary's up for re-election.

[South Florida]

Posted: 3/2/16 at 6:53pm

Thinking of Clinton and Jennifer Saunders and wishing that was an episode.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 3/2/16 at 6:54pm

Cool. Be sure to update us on what pops into your head next. 

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/2/16 at 6:59pm

The AbFab connection means too many people hate her equals she is unelectable equals why are you all so mean?

[South Florida]

Posted: 3/2/16 at 7:03pm

I will, when I see Sanders changed to Saunders I might think of that show.  When I see Bernie changed to Barney I think of the purple thing.  When did this kiddy **** start?

 

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/2/16 at 7:04pm

With all due respect WTF are you talking about NOW?

[javero]

Posted: 3/2/16 at 7:06pm

There, I changed the subject line back the Clinton vs. Sanders.

[South Florida]

Posted: 3/2/16 at 7:06pm

I don't sense any respect in your tone.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/2/16 at 7:08pm

Tone is auditory.  Are you hearing voices?  What are they telling you to do besides throwing in non-sequiturs every several posts?

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 3/2/16 at 7:15pm

Have y'all seen the movie teaser?

 

After 86 pages we could use a little levity! I know straight chimney-sweeping South Floridians are a target demo, too.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/2/16 at 7:32pm

Bernie hit the trail with a member of Phish who is not Trey Anastasio.  It's hard to know if even Abbi Jacobsen would be excited by that.  But good for Bern, reaching out to the, well, not exactly young people... but more like the jam-band community?  Wait.  The student debt community?  I dunno.

 

http://www.rollingstone.com/music/news/bernie-sanders-on-phish-one-of-the-great-bands-in-this-country-20160302

[binau]

Posted: 3/2/16 at 8:09pm

"They support a single do-or-die-extreme candidate with unrealistic, shortsighted (yet perceived as visionary) goals"

 

Just to check my understanding, are you referring to the goals of Bernie Sanders? I think his goals are the opposite of shortsighted, they are long-term ideals. In my opinion, the biggest issue is that they are potentially unrealistic in the context of the USA political system and thus not short-term focussed enough. Hillary's plans seem more realistic given the USA political system and thus more likely to be implemented in the short-term, which is part of her appeal. However, I would speculate that Hillary would probably agree that Bernie Sanders' vision for the USA is more appealing than her own. As you point out though (and as she often says), she wants to get things done.

My overall point is that while I think it could be fair to criticise Sanders as unrealistic, I don't think it's fair to criticise his goals as being shortsighted. Hillary is pretty much working towards the same ideal but in baby steps (which could be more achievable): she wants to increase accessibility of healthcare (but not quite as far as Sanders), she wants to raise the minimum wage (but not quite as far as Sanders), she wants to make University education more accessible (but not quite as far as Sanders), she wants to redistribute wealth from the rich and powerful to the middle class (but not quite as far as Sanders). 

 

Updated On: 3/2/16 at 08:09 PM

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 3/2/16 at 8:30pm

A bigger problem:  Hillary just isn't galvanizing Democrats the way she ought to.  She's the apathetic, lazy choice.  She's got the media savvy but she doesn't inspire.  She just doesn't and its very troubling.  

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/03/us/politics/hillary-clinton-voter-turnout.html?hp&action=click&pgtype=Homepage&clickSource=story-heading&module=b-lede-package-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news&_r=0