clinton vs. sanders your vote? — Page 92

The Hillary hate is real PJ you're ignoring reality or else you don't see a lot of different people, I'm not exaggerating this because I'm a Sander's guy, but because it's real.

The Hillary hate is real PJ you're ignoring reality or else you don't see a lot of different people,

I've tried to say this in nice ways, funny ways, sarcastic ways, honest ways, and now I am reduced to asking: CAN YOU JUST STFU WITH THIS REFRAIN. Look around you. The grown ups are discussing this WITH NUANCE.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT WE GET YOUR POINT THAT YOUR EVIDENCE OF PEOPLE HATING HILLARY IS THE REASON THAT YOU THINK NOBODY ANYWHERE EVER SHOULD SUPPORT HER?


DO

YOU

GET

THAT?????

We ALL have reason to believe THAT. Personally it's in my Facebook feed daily and, I recognize this is a self-selected sample, particularly strong in the trigger-warning set. They've created a bubble in which political disagreement is "unsafe" for them.

Someone on another forum posted this, and I would like to share, because it explains a lot about Hillary's accomplishments, which I hear too often that she doesn't have any or much:

"I think they need to talk more about Hillary's bio and what she has done separate from Bill. She has an interest in politics since she was canvassing at age thirteen. Bill Clinton did not get her interested in politics.

"People gave this idea that she was just this little wifie-poo wanting attention and using her husband's position to get it. Far from it. She has been a political activist her whole life.

"She was really involved in child health and welfare in college law school and after, all through her time as First Lady of Arkansas. She's got a huge volume of work, for example, on unsafe housing conditions and health effects on the poor (why she's so interested in Flint, it's not phony interest), pro bono work for low income people that couldn't afford a civil court attorney, and later, universal healthcare and when that failed, subsidized healthcare for children. This wasn't the typical First Lady "mommy" stuff. She fought for it, she didn't sit on the sofa with a flowered dress on. She was considered the most influential First Lady since Eleanor Roosevelt.

"She actually approached this stuff as an attorney and a lobbyist against her own husband's administration. She fought to preserve money in the budget for children and poor people's issues, was appointed by Jimmy Carter when he was President to work for federal free legal aid. Back in college people thought she'd run for President.

"They really need to do commercials with her bio and talk about what she's done. When she started, women were constantly marginalized and not given credit. She even refused to marry Bill for years because she didn't want her own career drowned out by his. They lived together for years.

"I think if people quit thinking of her as "Bill's wife" they'd understand her better and she'd do better. Her history is what Bernie's would have been if he'd actually gone out and done it, rather than spending decades talking about how he wanted to do it. She's headed one organization after another. President Carter appointed her at 30 because she coordinated his political campaign in Indiana at age 29. She's not some nobody. They need to spend months on her name recognition, not letting people think of her as Bill Jr. She isn't.

She's a practical Bernie, people just don't know it."

Updated On: 3/6/16 at 07:22 PM

Namo, you mean all of Bernie's followers are Oliver Stone?

October 13, 2015 seems like a lifetime ago. Before Christmas and Hannukah and Thanksgiving. A time when none of us - not even Melania - ever entertained thoughts about Donald Trump's penis, when we were actually excited about watching a debate and before we found out that Beyonce was black. Such an innocent time. Back then, on a crisp October evening on a stage in Las Vegas, Bernie Sanders told the world that he was "sick and tired of hearing about [Hillary's] damn emails." The crowd roared, Hillary beamed, shook Bernie's hand and thanked him.

I have no doubt that before that debate Bernie had advisors urging him to go after Hillary and attack her on the email "scandal" because it would reinforce the (largely false) narrative of her supposed lack of trustworthiness. But he ignored that advice, which, frankly, may have been politically expedient at the time. He rejected the long tradition of personal attacks in Presidential campaigning. Instead, he chose to focus on the crucial issues facing American voters. With one bold and characteristically candid statement, he enabled Hillary to turn the page on emailgate. A few days later she would give a rockstar testimony in the latest Congressional Benghazi hearing and with Bernie's potent words still echoing in the public consciousness, the email scandal was - largely - behind her.

I have no doubt that Bernie genuinely meant what he said. And I have no doubt that the man who said those words will - when the time is right - do everything he can to make sure Hillary is elected. Until then, he's earned the right - hell, at this point, he has a mandate from his supporters - to fight like hell for the progressive platform of his campaign.

Updated On: 3/6/16 at 08:01 PM

Bernie sure as hell isnt doing himself any favors tonight, being a cranky old man changing every question to something else in order to attack Clinton.

Updated On: 3/6/16 at 08:46 PM

Yeah, although he had a couple of good moments, if there was a winner, it was definitely Hillary. One thing that I think Sanders does too often - especially when speaking to racially diverse audiences - is quickly pivot back to his big themes on class and economic inequality. Of course, intellectually, most educated voters understand how issues related to race are intertwined with those of class and economic inequality, but the way in which he responds to questions about race is sometimes stiff and awkward and can read as almost dismissive. Which is unfortunate, because there's no doubt he'd be a strong advocate for the rights of all minorities, but he needs to get a lot better at talking about it without quickly switching to his common economic themes.

Apparently Sanders doesn't do nuance well. I thought his response to the racist question was problematic (even if it was an odd question).

"One thing that I think Sanders does too often - especially when speaking to racially diverse audiences - is quickly pivot back to his big themes on class and economic inequality."

I don't know why that's his default. The guy is a former mayor advancing populist positions. His folksy delivery is almost Bill Clinton-like allowing him at times to really connect with questioners and moderators alike, depending on the subject.

But, he has trouble tuning his message for African-Americans. I yelled at my tv when he clumsily suggested that all blacks in the US are downtrodden folks who reside in self-imposed enclaves known by some as ghettos. Both my dad and girlfriend texted me within 30 seconds of his dropping that bomb. In contrast, Hillary spoke specifically to the issues of poverty and criminal justice affecting blacks in Detroit and Flint without the use of condescending language. She would NEVER make a blanket statement about blacks or any other ethnic group.

And to Jordan's point, let me be honest in that I didn't care for Don Lemon's race-related questions period, nor the subliminal one from the fellow from the audience. I don't recall anyone questioning candidate Obama's ability to empathize with any particular ethnic group. They were clearly gotcha questions designed to entrap Sanders.

Updated On: 3/6/16 at 11:04 PM

Javero, add that misstep by Sanders, to the fact that his campaign manager said in the Spin Room that Clinton was a "regional candidate that struggles to win outside the south" and you have a double whammy of tone deaf comments.

I also had a "WTF" moment with Sanders' comments, and was not sure if it was just generational, or something else but it was just off.