clinton vs. sanders your vote?- Page 92

[StageManager2]

Posted: 3/6/16 at 5:37pm

PJ, I'm also not convinced that Sanders will help out the Democrats in the General Election. He's not a Democrat himself and therefore has no loyalty to the party. In fact, he has never before campaigned for a Democratic candidate nor helped to raise money for the DNC. Who's to say that would change now?

 

I also think his success so far has gone to his head. When he started out last April and through the fall, he was very humble and even stated that he would back whoever ended up getting the Democratic ticket. But since the new year, he seems relentless to pursue his campaign to the end, come what may. I'm sure he's been energized by the cult following he's amassed. Imagine being a 74-year-old man in the winter of your life suddenly achieving name and face recognition nationwide, after decades of anonymity,  and having thousands of college-age and twentysomethings chanting your name and cheering you on? That would give anyone a self-esteem boost. It's understandable why he wouldn't want to give it up just yet, especially since he's convinced that he's saving the country.

 

That said, I'm not crazy about Sanders staying to the convention. I don't mind him remaining for the time being, but when he realizes he can't win the nomination, he should step aside. The longer he stays and tells his followers that he can win it, the more disillusioned they'll become when the day of reckoning finally comes. Hillary bowed out (June 7) more than two months before the convention (August 25-2, which allowed for the wounds to heal and for the party to regroup, which had fractured during the primaries, much like this year. But unlike Sanders, who's been trailing far behind, Hillary had an even bigger claim to the nomination in 2008, since she won the popular vote and gave Obama a run for his money. But at the end of the day, she chose the good of the party rather than her own ambitions. Because she's a tried and true Democrat.
 

[South Florida]

Posted: 3/6/16 at 5:41pm

The Hillary hate is real PJ you're ignoring reality or else you don't see a lot of different people, I'm not exaggerating this because I'm a Sander's guy, but because it's real.

[binau]

Posted: 3/6/16 at 6:05pm

I agree that Bernie's unexpected success probably makes it more difficult for him to let go. But I'd be shocked and disappointed if he did not endorse the Democratic party and Hillary Clinton should the time come. Based on his references to the stark differences between the Democratic party and the GOP in debates (particularly early debates), and the fact that I really believe he is trying to move forward a cause rather than simply achieve a career success or ego boost (Donald Trump, in my opinion), it would be a shocking outcome. He knows what is best for the USA, and that's not a GOP candidate.

Updated On: 3/6/16 at 06:05 PM

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/6/16 at 6:09pm

The Hillary hate is real PJ you're ignoring reality or else you don't see a lot of different people,

 

I've tried to say this in nice ways, funny ways, sarcastic ways, honest ways, and now I am reduced to asking:  CAN YOU JUST STFU WITH THIS REFRAIN.  Look around you.  The grown ups are discussing this WITH NUANCE.

[South Florida]

Posted: 3/6/16 at 6:13pm

Nuance, there is no nuance, I'm 54 years old, I have many friends, and many of them h*** H******.  Dems, Independents, especially the GOP, I wish you guys were right and it's all in my mind and limited circle, but is it?

 

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/6/16 at 6:15pm

DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT WE GET YOUR POINT THAT YOUR EVIDENCE OF PEOPLE HATING HILLARY IS THE REASON THAT YOU THINK NOBODY ANYWHERE EVER SHOULD SUPPORT HER?


DO

YOU

GET

THAT?????

[PalJoey]

Posted: 3/6/16 at 6:15pm

 

Well, I hope you're all right that Bernie will support Hillary as the Democratic candidate. But I have reason to worry that his supporters won't.

 

HUFF POST: Don’t Assume Bernie Sanders Supporters Will Back Hillary Clinton If She’s The Nominee

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/bernie-sanders-supporters-wont-vote-hillary_us_56d7571ae4b0871f60edb9fe

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/6/16 at 6:21pm

We ALL have reason to believe THAT.   Personally it's in my Facebook feed daily and, I recognize this is  a self-selected sample, particularly strong in the trigger-warning set.  They've created a bubble in which political disagreement is "unsafe" for them.

 

 

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/6/16 at 6:30pm

Actually what I wrote isn't quite accurate.

 

They have created a virtual environment in which their enthusiasm for Bernie has given them a level of insight that they must share with the world and they think nobody has felt, seen or expressed such insights about Bernie or anybody else before them.  And in this world, feedback about their opinions feels like a hate crime. 

[StageManager2]

Posted: 3/6/16 at 7:22pm

Someone on another forum posted this, and I would like to share, because it explains a lot about Hillary's accomplishments, which I hear too often that she doesn't have any or much:

 

"I think they need to talk more about Hillary's bio and what she has done separate from Bill. She has an interest in politics since she was canvassing at age thirteen. Bill Clinton did not get her interested in politics.

 

"People gave this idea that she was just this little wifie-poo wanting attention and using her husband's position to get it. Far from it. She has been a political activist her whole life.

 

"She was really involved in child health and welfare in college law school and after, all through her time as First Lady of Arkansas. She's got a huge volume of work, for example, on unsafe housing conditions and health effects on the poor (why she's so interested in Flint, it's not phony interest), pro bono work for low income people that couldn't afford a civil court attorney, and later, universal healthcare and when that failed, subsidized healthcare for children. This wasn't the typical First Lady "mommy" stuff. She fought for it, she didn't sit on the sofa with a flowered dress on. She was considered the most influential First Lady since Eleanor Roosevelt.

 

"She actually approached this stuff as an attorney and a lobbyist against her own husband's administration. She fought to preserve money in the budget for children and poor people's issues, was appointed by Jimmy Carter when he was President to work for federal free legal aid. Back in college people thought she'd run for President.

 

"They really need to do commercials with her bio and talk about what she's done. When she started, women were constantly marginalized and not given credit. She even refused to marry Bill for years because she didn't want her own career drowned out by his. They lived together for years.

 

"I think if people quit thinking of her as "Bill's wife" they'd understand her better and she'd do better. Her history is what Bernie's would have been if he'd actually gone out and done it, rather than spending decades talking about how he wanted to do it. She's headed one organization after another. President Carter appointed her at 30 because she coordinated his political campaign in Indiana at age 29. She's not some nobody. They need to spend months on her name recognition, not letting people think of her as Bill Jr. She isn't.

 

She's a practical Bernie, people just don't know it."

Updated On: 3/6/16 at 07:22 PM

[javero]

Posted: 3/6/16 at 7:23pm

All is not lost for Marco Rubio it seems.  Earlier today he was declared the winner of Puerto Rico's winner-take-most primary.  He stands to pick up the bulk of the 23 delegate votes up for grabs.  No word yet of a statement from Hillary or Bernie about Rubio's resounding victory on the island of enchantment.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 3/6/16 at 7:49pm

Namo, you mean all of Bernie's followers are Oliver Stone?

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 3/6/16 at 7:53pm

I hadn't thought of it that way!

[HorseTears]

Posted: 3/6/16 at 8:01pm

October 13, 2015 seems like a lifetime ago.  Before Christmas and Hannukah and Thanksgiving.  A time when none of us - not even Melania - ever entertained thoughts about Donald Trump's penis, when we were actually excited about watching a debate and before we found out that Beyonce was black.  Such an innocent time.  Back then, on a crisp October evening on a stage in Las Vegas, Bernie Sanders told the world that he was "sick and tired of hearing about [Hillary's] damn emails."  The crowd roared, Hillary beamed, shook Bernie's hand and thanked him.  

 

 

I have no doubt that before that debate Bernie had advisors urging him to go after Hillary and attack her on the email "scandal" because it would reinforce the (largely false) narrative of her supposed lack of trustworthiness.  But he ignored that advice,  which, frankly,  may have been politically expedient at the time.  He rejected the long tradition of personal attacks in Presidential campaigning.  Instead, he chose to focus on the crucial issues facing American voters.  With one bold and characteristically candid statement, he enabled Hillary to turn the page on emailgate.  A few days later she would give a rockstar testimony in the latest Congressional Benghazi hearing and with Bernie's potent words still echoing in the public consciousness, the email scandal was - largely - behind her.  

 

I have no doubt that Bernie genuinely meant what he said.  And I have no doubt that the man who said those words will - when the time is right - do everything he can to make sure Hillary is elected.  Until then, he's earned the right - hell, at this point, he has a mandate from his supporters - to fight like hell for the progressive platform of his campaign.  

Updated On: 3/6/16 at 08:01 PM

[PalJoey]

Posted: 3/6/16 at 8:22pm

Bernie gets Maine. On to Michigan, Ohio, and Florida.

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 3/6/16 at 8:46pm

Bernie sure as hell isnt doing himself any favors tonight, being a cranky old man changing every question to something else in order to attack Clinton. 

Updated On: 3/6/16 at 08:46 PM

[javero]

Posted: 3/6/16 at 8:48pm

Jordan, I agree.  He has talked over Hillary at least 2 times and it's pissed me off.  And even I now find that hand waving annoying as f*ck.

 

ETA: Hillary Clinton most certainly understands product liability and torts, Bernie.  She's right that the gun manufacturers make up the only industry that has immunity from prosecution in the context of product liability thanks to the NRA.

Updated On: 3/6/16 at 08:48 PM

[HorseTears]

Posted: 3/6/16 at 10:22pm

Yeah, although he had a couple of good moments, if there was a winner, it was definitely Hillary.  One thing that I think Sanders does too often - especially when speaking to racially diverse audiences - is quickly pivot back to his big themes on class and economic inequality.  Of course, intellectually, most educated voters understand how issues related to race are intertwined with those of class and economic inequality, but the way in which he responds to questions about race is sometimes stiff and awkward and can read as almost dismissive.  Which is unfortunate, because there's no doubt he'd be a strong advocate for the rights of all minorities, but he needs to get a lot better at talking about it without quickly switching to his common economic themes.   

[Jordan Catalano]

Posted: 3/6/16 at 10:30pm

And I just have to say, that "In what way are you racist" question was BULLSH1T.

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 3/6/16 at 10:46pm

Apparently Sanders doesn't do nuance well.  I thought his response to the racist question was problematic (even if it was an odd question).  

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 3/6/16 at 10:46pm

Double Post

Updated On: 3/6/16 at 10:46 PM

[javero]

Posted: 3/6/16 at 11:04pm

"One thing that I think Sanders does too often - especially when speaking to racially diverse audiences - is quickly pivot back to his big themes on class and economic inequality."

 

I don't know why that's his default.  The guy is a former mayor advancing populist positions.  His folksy delivery is almost Bill Clinton-like allowing him at times to really connect with questioners and moderators alike, depending on the subject.

 

 But, he has trouble tuning his message for African-Americans.  I yelled at my tv when he clumsily suggested that all blacks in the US are downtrodden folks who reside in self-imposed enclaves known by some as ghettos.  Both my dad and girlfriend texted me within 30 seconds of his dropping that bomb.  In contrast, Hillary spoke specifically to the issues of poverty and criminal justice affecting blacks in Detroit and Flint without the use of condescending language.  She would NEVER make a blanket statement about blacks or any other ethnic group.

 

And to Jordan's point, let me be honest in that I didn't care for Don Lemon's race-related questions period, nor the subliminal one from the fellow from the audience.  I don't recall anyone questioning candidate Obama's ability to empathize with any particular ethnic group.  They were clearly gotcha questions designed to entrap Sanders.

Updated On: 3/6/16 at 11:04 PM

[StageManager2]

Posted: 3/6/16 at 11:11pm

I yelled at my tv when he clumsily suggested that all blacks in the US are downtrodden folks who reside in self-imposed enclaves known by some as ghettos.  

 

I wasn't able to watch, but did he really say that?!

 

What was the question, exactly?

[YouWantitWhen????]

Posted: 3/6/16 at 11:14pm

Javero, add that misstep by Sanders, to the fact that his campaign manager said in the Spin Room that Clinton was a "regional candidate that struggles to win outside the south" and you have a double whammy of tone deaf comments.

I also had a "WTF" moment with Sanders' comments, and was not sure if it was just generational, or something else but it was just off.   

[javero]

Posted: 3/6/16 at 11:17pm

http://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2016/03/07/democratic-debate-flint-bernie-sanders-ghetto-racism-07.cnn/video/playlists/2016-democratic-presidential-debates/

 

Sanders: White people don't know life in a ghetto

 

Dude obviously has never spent anytime in the city of Baltimore.

Updated On: 3/6/16 at 11:17 PM