clinton vs. sanders your vote? — Page 94

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#2326

Clinton vs. Saunders

Posted: 3/7/16 at 12:15pm

he conflates race and class, and if you cannot see that it a big deal, then your blinders may need to be loosened.

THIS^^^

You have put your finger on Bernie's essential tin ear when it comes to people of color. He has spent his whole life in his "Democratic Socialist" bubble that focuses on old-school Marxist ideals of class conflict and "income inequality" without ever realizing that people of color experience racial inequality and that when they hear the words "income inequality," all they hear is their own issues being minimized. He just doesn't get it.

Plus, his blustery old-school Jewish way of talking over other people--which is eerily similar to older relatives of mine, like my father's cousin Zalman or my mother's father who would end every argument about Russia vs. the U.S. by yelling "Who killed Trotsky? Hah? You tell me--who killed Trotsky?"--that kind of bluster may be okay at the seder table in a family argument, but it comes off as aggressive and bullying to women and people who are not Jewish (or Italian, maybe).

#2327

Clinton vs. Saunders

Posted: 3/7/16 at 12:24pm

But that taps into the unchecked veins of misogyny in so many people's arguments about Hillary! So it's win-win for him. Like the Drumpf dog whistle for racists.

Twitter @NamoInExile Instagram none

#2328

Clinton vs. Saunders

Posted: 3/7/16 at 12:32pm

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/03/07/clinton-is-running-for-president-sanders-is-doing-something-else/

#2329

Clinton vs. Saunders

Posted: 3/7/16 at 12:53pm

Women React to Bernie Sanders Telling Hillary ‘I’m Talking’

http://bluenationreview.com/bernie-sanders-to-hillary-clinton-im-talking/

#2330

Clinton vs. Saunders

Posted: 3/7/16 at 1:08pm

PalJoey said: " You have put your finger on Bernie's essential tin ear when it comes to people of color. He has spent his whole life in his "Democratic Socialist" bubble that focuses on old-school Marxist ideals of class conflict and "income inequality" without ever realizing that people of color experience racial inequality and that when they hear the words "income inequality," all they hear is their own issues being minimized. He just doesn't get it."

And that's where the whole "he's been consistent in his beliefs for fifty years!" hits a major snag. He's a progressive who's pushing progressive language and ideals from decades ago.

"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."

#2331

Clinton vs. Saunders

Posted: 3/7/16 at 1:13pm

That's why I was happy when Hillary interjected, "elections are about the future".

#FactsMatter...your feelings not so much.

#2332

Clinton vs. Saunders

Posted: 3/7/16 at 1:19pm

For the record, to me, that comment was just one of frustration on his part, and did not reflect any gender issues, but more the fact that Bernie is not a polished candidate. He, in some ways, has his own echo chamber with his followers, and until very recently, has not had to play to a larger, more diverse audience. She interrupted him and he interrupted her, and he lost his composure . He is just not ready for the type of scrutiny and tone needed to win nationally.

To vote against the auto bailout because it also included financial industry bailouts is a perfect example of why he will never get my vote in this political climate. I do not want a teacher that is willing to punish the entire class because of the misdeeds of a few - and that is exactly what he was willing to do when he could not get a standalone auto bailout bill. That would have hit the middle class much harder than they were already hit, and I think help decimate what manufacturing we do have.

I do agree that if Clinton had adopted the tone and mannerisms of Bernie that she would be eviscerated.

Updated On: 3/7/16 at 01:19 PM

#2333

Clinton vs. Saunders

Posted: 3/7/16 at 3:28pm

The social media and forums I visit are exploding with backlash against Sanders' "white people" comment.

But surprisingly, I've seen a lot of Sanders diehards who were really angered by his Export-Import Bank stance last night. A few said that they were switching votes over it.

Not a good night for Bernie.

#2334

Clinton vs. Saunders

Posted: 3/7/16 at 3:38pm

Oy, Bernie.

MSNBC: ‘Ghetto’ gaffe highlights Bernie Sanders campaign’s struggle with race

http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bernie-sanders-ghetto-gaffe-highlights-campaigns-struggle-race

#2335

Clinton vs. Saunders

Posted: 3/7/16 at 4:33pm

"Not to put too fine a point on it or anything, but someone of Hillary's statue can certainly pull in top dollar on the speaker's circuit in private life. I'm uncomfortable vilifying anyone for earning a living."

The main issue here is the content of the speeches, I think.

---

As a Bernie supporter, one of my favourite moments was when Hillary and Bernie were discussing trade agreements. In response to Bernie's claim that Hillary had supported pretty much every 'disastrous trade agreement" that has led to the loss of jobs in states like Michigan, Hillary accused Bernie of the same thing by not supporting the "auto bail out", not making it clear that this bail out was part of the wider Wall Street bail out. Bernie wouldn't let her get away with that and made no apologies his voting history, making it clear that he didn't think that the unethical behaviour and greed of Wall Street should be bailed out by the tax payers, who are often the ones that suffered as a result of this behaviour in terms of losing homes, losing jobs etc.

And similar to her comments about Bernie's tax plan - making such statements is again an example of dishonesty, where she is not being completely clear about the facts at hand.

---

Regarding Bernie's "ghetto" comments. Look, feel free to take and criticise his words literally. However, I think we all knew what he meant - particularly given his own upbringing and wealth. This man is the poorest presidential candidate running for office, and his total net worth is LESS than the money Hillary Clinton received to give those Wall Street Speeches alone. He knows that class isn't the same thing as race obviously, because he grew up in a poor white family in Brooklyn!

Give me claws and a hunch, just away from this bunch.

Updated On: 3/7/16 at 04:33 PM

#2336

Clinton vs. Saunders

Posted: 3/7/16 at 4:39pm

He has spent his whole life in his "Democratic Socialist" bubble that focuses on old-school Marxist ideals of class conflict and "income inequality" without ever realizing that people of color experience racial inequality

Did you actually watch the debate? He talked several times about the racial inequality experienced by African Americans (e.g., police brutality).

Give me claws and a hunch, just away from this bunch.

#2337

Clinton vs. Saunders

Posted: 3/7/16 at 4:46pm

Yup. That's what I based my comments on.

#2338

Clinton vs. Saunders

Posted: 3/7/16 at 4:51pm

Historian Todd Purdom on where Bernie goes from here.

POLITICO: What Bernie Does Now: After a bracing defeat, Sanders can only try to leave his imprint on the nominee’s platform—then leave the stage gracefully.

http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/bernie-sanders-2016-future-213694

#2339

Clinton vs. Saunders

Posted: 3/7/16 at 4:54pm

Re: bailout - see my comment above.

The fact that Sanders would let the auto industry fail in order to prove a point regarding the financial sector is in my mind one of his problems. As I said before, he is absolute in much of his beliefs, and I credit him for that and respect him for that as an advocate - I just believe effectively governing is far more nuanced a process, which often involves agreeing to things that you may not like in the short term for the greater good - i.e., bailing out wall street to save the auto industry and all of the ancillary economic output related to it.

#2340

Clinton vs. Saunders

Posted: 3/7/16 at 5:03pm

I think that's a decent point.

Give me claws and a hunch, just away from this bunch.

#2341

Clinton vs. Saunders

Posted: 3/7/16 at 5:22pm

Bloomberg has stated that he will not run, acknowledging that he would help Trump

"It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg." -- Thomas Jefferson

#2342

Clinton vs. Saunders

Posted: 3/7/16 at 5:29pm

Thank goddess!

#2343

Clinton vs. Saunders

Posted: 3/7/16 at 5:59pm

At this point I think that Sanders has to stay in through the March 15th primaries. He is down 10 points in Michigan right now, and Nate Silver has Hillary winning both Ohio and Florida on the 15th right now. If she takes both of those states I don't see how he can justify staying in the race and continuing to take money from people for lost cause. Either way both candidates should beware the Ides of March.

#2344

Clinton vs. Saunders

Posted: 3/7/16 at 7:07pm

We have already learned, there are no "ifs" with Nate Silver. Only do.

Twitter @NamoInExile Instagram none

#2345

Clinton vs. Saunders

Posted: 3/7/16 at 8:41pm

Having moved to Vermont after living in NJ and Philadelphia - this is the whitest place I have ever lived, by far, and our nearest city is Montreal, so no, Sanders makeing gaffes about race and (oy) "ghettos" is not a big shock. He's been learning on the campaign trail, but his time is limited and it doesn't seem like he's been learning fast enough. Burlington's Old North End may kind of look like parts of West Philadelphia, but they are...not even faintly the same.

#2346

Clinton vs. Saunders

Posted: 3/7/16 at 8:58pm

At least he hasn't spoken of VT's history of eugenics in a positive manner. Yet.

Twitter @NamoInExile Instagram none

#2347

Clinton vs. Saunders

Posted: 3/7/16 at 9:02pm

But he does get it. It was a poor use of words. The idea that some how the poorest presidential candidate on stage with a net worth approximately 0.5% - 1% that of the Clinton family is somehow less capable of understanding than her that white people also experience poverty or that black people can be wealthy is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.

Simialrly, ridiculous claims that Bernie Sanders doesn't understand racial inequality exists when he has been involved in and arrested for opposing racial segregation, and clearly talked about racial inequality during the debate, make no sense.

Can we please actually think about the issues? Where is this apparent intelligence? Where are the 'adults'?

Give me claws and a hunch, just away from this bunch.

Updated On: 3/7/16 at 09:02 PM

#2348

Clinton vs. Saunders

Posted: 3/7/16 at 9:04pm

You have to understand what is happening to a lot of people over here when they say they want to vote for Hillary. Your three questions apply doubly to that situation.

Twitter @NamoInExile Instagram none

#2349

Clinton vs. Saunders

Posted: 3/7/16 at 9:06pm

He has an estimated net worth of over $500,000 so he's hardly Oliver Twist.

Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$

#2350

Clinton vs. Saunders

Posted: 3/7/16 at 9:17pm

Sanders makeing gaffes about race and (oy) "ghettos" is not a big shock. He's been learning on the campaign trail

Strangely, though, I see his supporters touting him as the best candidate for minorities even though his arrest in college seems to be the end of his illustrious crusade. The Bernie people keep trying to sell me couldn't have made gaffes like that.

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