clinton vs. sanders your vote?- Page 94
clinton vs. sanders your vote?
#2325Clinton vs. Saunders
Posted: 3/7/16 at 12:15pm
he conflates race and class, and if you cannot see that it a big deal, then your blinders may need to be loosened.
THIS^^^
You have put your finger on Bernie's essential tin ear when it comes to people of color. He has spent his whole life in his "Democratic Socialist" bubble that focuses on old-school Marxist ideals of class conflict and "income inequality" without ever realizing that people of color experience racial inequality and that when they hear the words "income inequality," all they hear is their own issues being minimized. He just doesn't get it.
Plus, his blustery old-school Jewish way of talking over other people--which is eerily similar to older relatives of mine, like my father's cousin Zalman or my mother's father who would end every argument about Russia vs. the U.S. by yelling "Who killed Trotsky? Hah? You tell me--who killed Trotsky?"--that kind of bluster may be okay at the seder table in a family argument, but it comes off as aggressive and bullying to women and people who are not Jewish (or Italian, maybe).
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#2326Clinton vs. Saunders
Posted: 3/7/16 at 12:24pm
But that taps into the unchecked veins of misogyny in so many people's arguments about Hillary! So it's win-win for him. Like the Drumpf dog whistle for racists.
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
#2328Clinton vs. Saunders
Posted: 3/7/16 at 12:53pm
Women React to Bernie Sanders Telling Hillary ‘I’m Talking’
http://bluenationreview.com/bernie-sanders-to-hillary-clinton-im-talking/
#2329Clinton vs. Saunders
Posted: 3/7/16 at 1:08pm
PalJoey said: " You have put your finger on Bernie's essential tin ear when it comes to people of color. He has spent his whole life in his "Democratic Socialist" bubble that focuses on old-school Marxist ideals of class conflict and "income inequality" without ever realizing that people of color experience racial inequality and that when they hear the words "income inequality," all they hear is their own issues being minimized. He just doesn't get it."
And that's where the whole "he's been consistent in his beliefs for fifty years!" hits a major snag. He's a progressive who's pushing progressive language and ideals from decades ago.
"...everyone finally shut up, and the audience could enjoy the beginning of the Anatevka Pogram in peace."
#2330Clinton vs. Saunders
Posted: 3/7/16 at 1:13pm
That's why I was happy when Hillary interjected, "elections are about the future".
#FactsMatter...your feelings not so much.
#2331Clinton vs. Saunders
Posted: 3/7/16 at 1:19pm
For the record, to me, that comment was just one of frustration on his part, and did not reflect any gender issues, but more the fact that Bernie is not a polished candidate. He, in some ways, has his own echo chamber with his followers, and until very recently, has not had to play to a larger, more diverse audience. She interrupted him and he interrupted her, and he lost his composure . He is just not ready for the type of scrutiny and tone needed to win nationally.
To vote against the auto bailout because it also included financial industry bailouts is a perfect example of why he will never get my vote in this political climate. I do not want a teacher that is willing to punish the entire class because of the misdeeds of a few - and that is exactly what he was willing to do when he could not get a standalone auto bailout bill. That would have hit the middle class much harder than they were already hit, and I think help decimate what manufacturing we do have.
I do agree that if Clinton had adopted the tone and mannerisms of Bernie that she would be eviscerated.
Updated On: 3/7/16 at 01:19 PM
#2332Clinton vs. Saunders
Posted: 3/7/16 at 3:28pm
The social media and forums I visit are exploding with backlash against Sanders' "white people" comment.
But surprisingly, I've seen a lot of Sanders diehards who were really angered by his Export-Import Bank stance last night. A few said that they were switching votes over it.
Not a good night for Bernie.
#2333Clinton vs. Saunders
Posted: 3/7/16 at 3:38pm
Oy, Bernie.
MSNBC: ‘Ghetto’ gaffe highlights Bernie Sanders campaign’s struggle with race
http://www.msnbc.com/msnbc/bernie-sanders-ghetto-gaffe-highlights-campaigns-struggle-race
#2334Clinton vs. Saunders
Posted: 3/7/16 at 4:33pm
"Not to put too fine a point on it or anything, but someone of Hillary's statue can certainly pull in top dollar on the speaker's circuit in private life. I'm uncomfortable vilifying anyone for earning a living."
The main issue here is the content of the speeches, I think.
---
As a Bernie supporter, one of my favourite moments was when Hillary and Bernie were discussing trade agreements. In response to Bernie's claim that Hillary had supported pretty much every 'disastrous trade agreement" that has led to the loss of jobs in states like Michigan, Hillary accused Bernie of the same thing by not supporting the "auto bail out", not making it clear that this bail out was part of the wider Wall Street bail out. Bernie wouldn't let her get away with that and made no apologies his voting history, making it clear that he didn't think that the unethical behaviour and greed of Wall Street should be bailed out by the tax payers, who are often the ones that suffered as a result of this behaviour in terms of losing homes, losing jobs etc.
And similar to her comments about Bernie's tax plan - making such statements is again an example of dishonesty, where she is not being completely clear about the facts at hand.
---
Regarding Bernie's "ghetto" comments. Look, feel free to take and criticise his words literally. However, I think we all knew what he meant - particularly given his own upbringing and wealth. This man is the poorest presidential candidate running for office, and his total net worth is LESS than the money Hillary Clinton received to give those Wall Street Speeches alone. He knows that class isn't the same thing as race obviously, because he grew up in a poor white family in Brooklyn!
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
Updated On: 3/7/16 at 04:33 PM
#2335Clinton vs. Saunders
Posted: 3/7/16 at 4:39pm
He has spent his whole life in his "Democratic Socialist" bubble that focuses on old-school Marxist ideals of class conflict and "income inequality" without ever realizing that people of color experience racial inequality
Did you actually watch the debate? He talked several times about the racial inequality experienced by African Americans (e.g., police brutality).
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
#2337Clinton vs. Saunders
Posted: 3/7/16 at 4:51pm
Historian Todd Purdom on where Bernie goes from here.
POLITICO: What Bernie Does Now: After a bracing defeat, Sanders can only try to leave his imprint on the nominee’s platform—then leave the stage gracefully.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/03/bernie-sanders-2016-future-213694
#2338Clinton vs. Saunders
Posted: 3/7/16 at 4:54pm
Re: bailout - see my comment above.
The fact that Sanders would let the auto industry fail in order to prove a point regarding the financial sector is in my mind one of his problems. As I said before, he is absolute in much of his beliefs, and I credit him for that and respect him for that as an advocate - I just believe effectively governing is far more nuanced a process, which often involves agreeing to things that you may not like in the short term for the greater good - i.e., bailing out wall street to save the auto industry and all of the ancillary economic output related to it.
#2339Clinton vs. Saunders
Posted: 3/7/16 at 5:03pm
I think that's a decent point.
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
#2340Clinton vs. Saunders
Posted: 3/7/16 at 5:22pm
Bloomberg has stated that he will not run, acknowledging that he would help Trump
"It does me no injury for my neighbour to say there are 20 gods or no god. It neither picks my pocket, nor breaks my leg."
-- Thomas Jefferson
#2342Clinton vs. Saunders
Posted: 3/7/16 at 5:59pm
At this point I think that Sanders has to stay in through the March 15th primaries. He is down 10 points in Michigan right now, and Nate Silver has Hillary winning both Ohio and Florida on the 15th right now. If she takes both of those states I don't see how he can justify staying in the race and continuing to take money from people for lost cause. Either way both candidates should beware the Ides of March.
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#2343Clinton vs. Saunders
Posted: 3/7/16 at 7:07pm
We have already learned, there are no "ifs" with Nate Silver. Only do.
Twitter @NamoInExile
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Plum
Broadway Legend Joined: 3/4/04
#2344Clinton vs. Saunders
Posted: 3/7/16 at 8:41pmHaving moved to Vermont after living in NJ and Philadelphia - this is the whitest place I have ever lived, by far, and our nearest city is Montreal, so no, Sanders makeing gaffes about race and (oy) "ghettos" is not a big shock. He's been learning on the campaign trail, but his time is limited and it doesn't seem like he's been learning fast enough. Burlington's Old North End may kind of look like parts of West Philadelphia, but they are...not even faintly the same.
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#2345Clinton vs. Saunders
Posted: 3/7/16 at 8:58pm
At least he hasn't spoken of VT's history of eugenics in a positive manner. Yet.
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
#2346Clinton vs. Saunders
Posted: 3/7/16 at 9:02pm
But he does get it. It was a poor use of words. The idea that some how the poorest presidential candidate on stage with a net worth approximately 0.5% - 1% that of the Clinton family is somehow less capable of understanding than her that white people also experience poverty or that black people can be wealthy is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard.
Simialrly, ridiculous claims that Bernie Sanders doesn't understand racial inequality exists when he has been involved in and arrested for opposing racial segregation, and clearly talked about racial inequality during the debate, make no sense.
Can we please actually think about the issues? Where is this apparent intelligence? Where are the 'adults'?
"You can't overrate Bernadette Peters. She is such a genius. There's a moment in "Too Many Mornings" and Bernadette doing 'I wore green the last time' - It's a voice that is just already given up - it is so sorrowful. Tragic. You can see from that moment the show is going to be headed into such dark territory and it hinges on this tiny throwaway moment of the voice." - Ben Brantley (2022)
"Bernadette's whole, stunning performance [as Rose in Gypsy] galvanized the actors capable of letting loose with her. Bernadette's Rose did take its rightful place, but too late, and unseen by too many who should have seen it" Arthur Laurents (2009)
"Sondheim's own favorite star performances? [Bernadette] Peters in ''Sunday in the Park,'' Lansbury in ''Sweeney Todd'' and ''obviously, Ethel was thrilling in 'Gypsy.'' Nytimes, 2000
Updated On: 3/7/16 at 09:02 PM
FindingNamo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/22/03
#2347Clinton vs. Saunders
Posted: 3/7/16 at 9:04pm
You have to understand what is happening to a lot of people over here when they say they want to vote for Hillary. Your three questions apply doubly to that situation.
Twitter @NamoInExile
Instagram none
#2348Clinton vs. Saunders
Posted: 3/7/16 at 9:06pm
He has an estimated net worth of over $500,000 so he's hardly Oliver Twist.
Beyoncé is not an ally. Actions speak louder than words, Mrs. Carter. #Dubai #$$$
Phyllis Rogers Stone
Broadway Legend Joined: 9/16/07
#2349Clinton vs. Saunders
Posted: 3/7/16 at 9:17pm
Sanders makeing gaffes about race and (oy) "ghettos" is not a big shock. He's been learning on the campaign trail
Strangely, though, I see his supporters touting him as the best candidate for minorities even though his arrest in college seems to be the end of his illustrious crusade. The Bernie people keep trying to sell me couldn't have made gaffes like that.
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