Andrew Lloyd Webber Vs. Sondheim - Page 3

[Idiot]

Posted: 3/5/13 at 3:01pm

It is a bit like comparing Dorothy Parker to Kim Kardashian, isn't it?

[Scarywarhol]

Posted: 3/5/13 at 3:01pm

Wynbish, you made me do an actual spit take.

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 3/5/13 at 3:01pm

I think Andrew Lloyd Webber's music is punishing to the human voice. The drama is in producing the sound.

Sondheim knows where to place his words within the context of the music to allow an actor to shine.

Which actually makes Sondheim's music far easier to sing.

[all that jazz]

Posted: 3/5/13 at 3:21pm

As an actor I'll admit Sondheim's music is overall easier to sing. As a theater aficionado I rather listen to Andrew Lloyd Webber.

[Emma White]

Posted: 3/5/13 at 4:33pm

^I disagree! I think ALW is a LOT easier to sing. Unless you're talking about range wise, but even so, it's not as bad as it seems. On the other hand, there's a reason they say never to use Sondheim for an audition. For example, I challenge you to find a video on youtube of someone singing Everybody Loves Louis decently, besides Bernadette Peters. There are none. Why? Because to sing Sondheim, you pretty much need Sondheim to tell you how to sing it.

[all that jazz]

Posted: 3/5/13 at 4:43pm

Sondheim's music is more difficult to play on the piano and some of the lyrics can be very tricky and require immaculate diction like Giants in the sky or Not getting married today. On the other hand while Andrew Lloyd Webber's songs might be not be as intricate, some of them (gethsemane, rainbow high) are killer hard, specially if you're performing 8 shows a week. Just ask Patti...

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 3/5/13 at 4:45pm

Sondheim does tell you how to sing it. It's all in that marvelous little map known as the music. He not only write music that respects the voice as an instrument with limits, he knows how to put words to that music that makes sense in a way that few other musical theater composers can. One thought flows beautifully into the next. Can the music be tricky? Yes...but once you key into it, it's all there. You don't have to work as hard.

[Emma White]

Posted: 3/5/13 at 4:50pm

That was the most beautiful thing I've ever read.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/5/13 at 4:52pm

I think int his case the poster did mean range wise--which is very true. In terms of rhythm, etc, Sondheim often can be really demanding (though it depends on the song or show.)

"I forgot about Love Never Dies. Music wise the show is one of my favorite musicals. It certainly wasn't perfect but still I don't understand all of the destructive criticism it received"

I actually think it has some of his best music that he's done in a while (granted, you have to be able to handle the sheer overwrought-ness of it but that's the point). But as others have mentioned that's not the issue most have with it--it's the story, the cynical nature of it all, etc (I admit, I own the Aussie Blu-Ray.)

[all that jazz]

Posted: 3/5/13 at 4:55pm

Sono, I completely agree with you. Sondheim's music is a joy to sing, I'll give you that!

And Eric, I'll admit the first time I saw the DVD of LND I was a bit socked with the story and character development, specially Raoul, but by the second time I saw it, I just immersed myself in the beautiful music and it all fell into place. Updated On: 3/5/13 at 04:55 PM

[After Eight]

Posted: 3/5/13 at 5:16pm

Isn't it funny that whenever and wherever a thread deals with The Great One, people go studiously out of their way to avoid addressing the one and really only thing that matters?

Like here, it's all about "writing well for the voice," "great lyrics," "marvelous little maps," (Gee, I didn't know maps could be so marvelous), Baccarat crystal, Neiman Marcus, everything under the sun except the huge elephant in the room:

The music is ugly.

There. Now it's been stated.

We can now return to marvelous maps and meaningless meanderings.

[SonofRobbieJ]

Posted: 3/5/13 at 5:26pm

What I really love about Sondheim is the respect he has for actors. He doesn't coddle. He doesn't think things need to be dumbed down. He simply trusts that performers will meet the task.

And I think that's just marvelous. And not the least bit meaningless.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 3/5/13 at 5:28pm

I think it's like comparing Puccini to George M. Cohan. There's no shame in enjoying Cohan's tunes and no denying his historical importance in the development of musical theater.

But when it comes to artistry, there really is no comparison. I've never understood the complaints against Sondheim's music. The minimalism of his music is not only beautiful in its own right (listen again to "All Things Bright and Beautiful", the wordless prologue to FOLLIES), it is the perfect compliment to the complex and witty lyrics Sondheim writes.

A Lloyd Webber setting tears at the words and distorts phrases; Sondheim's lyrics would be incomprehensible in the theater with such a treatment. (But I agree with the many above who say Lloyd Webber was better when paired with Rice. Better, but not Sondheim.)



Updated On: 3/5/13 at 05:28 PM

[MagicalMusical]

Posted: 3/5/13 at 5:29pm

That "Genius or Plagiarist?" video did have the song that Andrew Lloyd Webber was afraid "Memory" sounded too much like:

From Wikipedia: Lloyd Webber, fearing that the tune sounded too similar to a work of Puccini, and the opening - the haunting main theme - also resembles the flute solo in The Mamas & the Papas' 1965 song "California Dreamin'", asked his father's opinion. According to Lloyd Webber, his father responded, "It sounds like a million dollars!" So he based the haunting opening bars of the tune on Ravel's Bolero.

Who knows how much truth is to that though.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/5/13 at 6:07pm

Damn, how could I have forgotten! I love Sondheim and find his music often so incredibly moving, because, well, it's ugly. Thank God someone is here to point out the obvious.

[TheHappyPhantom]

Posted: 3/5/13 at 6:38pm

This comparison is a joke. Webber has brought no progression to the musical theatre. Phantom is basically his only watchable show. Everything Sondheim does challenges the audience. He's in a class of his own.

[LYLS3637]

Posted: 3/5/13 at 6:39pm

Well Leonard Bernstein trumps both of them, so I guess we're arguing for second place?

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/5/13 at 7:19pm

As one of the few people I know who loves Bernstein's opera, A Quiet Place, I'd happily place him up there (although the demo I've heard for Pray for Blecht is pretty uninspired), but this all goes to show how useless it is to compare them.

If one had to compare Sondheim to other composers it might make more sense to compare him with others of his generation and who played a big role in the 60s/70s progression of musical theatre--like Kander and Ebb.

[theatergeek3]

Posted: 3/5/13 at 7:23pm

I think they are both equally great, I just prefer Sondheim's style better. And he is like, my idol, AND I'm more familiar with his stuff, so if I had to choose, I 'd pick Sondheim.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 3/5/13 at 7:34pm

I also love A QUIET PLACE, Eric. You're not alone there. In fact and for the most part, I think WSS is Bernstein's least interesting score.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 3/5/13 at 7:36pm

I really don't care if LLoyd Webber borrows from Puccini. What I DO care about is that he gives the same tunes to every role in his plays, so his music doesn't represent character. It's simply repeated ad infinitum so we hum the songs as we leave the theater.

Not so with Sondheim.

[TheHappyPhantom]

Posted: 3/5/13 at 7:52pm

"As a theater aficionado I rather listen to Andrew Lloyd Webber. "

Then a theatre aficionado, you clearly are not.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 3/5/13 at 7:54pm

"I also love A QUIET PLACE, Eric. You're not alone there. In fact and for the most part, I think WSS is Bernstein's least interesting score.?'

Including Wonderful Town? (Which I love--I think it's perhaps the best of those early 50s musical comedies done in that style--next to Guys and Dolls, but...) I can't go that far, but I see your point (let's get a proper recording of 1600 Penn Ave sometime--though aside from the White House Cantata, the Estate doesn't seem too keen on doing that.)

I admit A Quiet Place has some big story issues (Bernstein obviously saw himself as the bisexual character who kinda sleeps with and saves everyone in the family lol)--but the score fascinates me (and of course it incorporates Trouble in Tahiti which is amazing.) I have a DVD of the La Scala production that was oddly broadcast on Germany TV only--it's worth tracking down.

I do think ALW is better in some shows with how he uses his melodies than in others. But as I keep on saying, it just seems impossible to compare them.

This sounds pretentious, but I guess for the most part seeing an ALW show for me is like seeing a big Hollywood blockbuster. Some are actually fairly smart, some aren't, but I know what I'm going in for, and often really enjoy, even love them.

I don't want to say Sondheim's more like seeing an art-house movie or an indie, but it's a different kind of theatre experience (though again, it depends on the show; I have great fondness for Forum, having played Miles twice, but as insanely clever as it is, I wouldn't call it deep or anything.)

(Hope you'e been doing well Gaveston--we need to catch up :P )

[Patronus]

Posted: 3/5/13 at 8:07pm

This isn't even a competition for me. Sondheim hands down.

Whether ALW is a plagiarizer or not - he's been writing the same musical over and over. Too much similarity in tone for me.

This is like comparing The Beatles to Carly Rae Jepsen.

[all that jazz]

Posted: 3/5/13 at 8:37pm

"As a theater aficionado I rather listen to Andrew Lloyd Webber. "

"Then a theatre aficionado, you clearly are not."

Just because in your mind Sondheim is the greatest composer to ever grace the musical pentagram dosen't mean, that anyone who prefers another composer's work is a not passionate about the theatre. I ooove Sondheim, he's one of my favorite composers I just happen to enjoy ALW shows more. From Somdheim my favorite shows are Company, Into the woods and Sweeney. From ALW I love JSC, Evita, Cats, Phantom, Sunset, LND... It's all a matter of taste and style. I like very dramatic shows with bigger than life gut wrenching ballads and overall musically charged and poweful scores.