Bad Lyrics- Page 5

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 8/27/12 at 10:35pm

I have never felt like I "knew" a character better than Marvin.

Amen! Warts and all. My all-time favorite musical theater character.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 8/27/12 at 10:40pm

henrik, the poster is only quoting Sondheim himself, who in turn is quoting Sheldon Harnick's remarks after the opening performance.

Actually, I think they are both wrong. If there's a problem with Maria, it's not that she knows the word "witty", it's that she's basically just an object of Tony's desire until "A Boy Like That". Then suddenly she's the strongest agent in the play. Granted, she is reacting to the events around her, but I think we could see more of that strength earlier in the play.

A girl singing about being pretty in a bridal shop is about as big a 1950s' cliche as one could hope to find.

[chewy5000]

Posted: 8/27/12 at 10:43pm

I think the problem is that Maria only really sounds like a poet in that one songs - resulting in a somewhat inconsistent character. You can go either way regarding 'poetry', but you should stick to it through the whole show.

[jansalrose2]

Posted: 8/27/12 at 10:45pm

Wicked:
There are bridges you didn't know you crossed until you have crossed.

Updated On: 8/27/12 at 10:45 PM

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 8/27/12 at 10:51pm

Isn't it:

"There's a kind of a sort of cost
There's a couple of things get lost
There are bridges you cross
You didn't know you crossed
Until you've crossed"

?

What's wrong with that? We normally say "I'll cross that bridge when I come to it", but Glinda is acknowledging that sometimes we cross bridges without noticing.

Updated On: 8/27/12 at 10:51 PM

[jansalrose2]

Posted: 8/27/12 at 11:17pm

They are bad, unimaginative, easy rhymes. Also, repeating "cross" 3 times. It just looks and sounds messy. A lot of the lyrics in that show make me wince.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 8/27/12 at 11:23pm

Well, I'd substitute something for "cross" in the middle line. The near rhyme doesn't help the sequence.

And I think grammatically it should be "You don't know" instead of "You didn't know".

But the sentence is heavily rhymed in part because it is expressing a complex, abstract thought. Schwartz is trying to make sure we hear what Glinda is saying.

[Owen22]

Posted: 8/27/12 at 11:32pm

Dear Jansalrose2

We are all entitled to opinions here. However. saying that lyric from "Wicked" is bad is like saying "the sky is chartreuse." That might be opinion but its still WRONG.

Unimaginative? I'm not sure there's been a better rhymed line in a Broadway show in ten years!! But it goes beyond the rhyme. It speaks so accurately to Glinda's own moral ambiguity and her own sad self-awareness that she has been bending her own "goodness" for easy fame and power.

And not only are the the three "crossed" lines powerful in context, they are a thrill to listen to (and I bet a lot of fun to sing). They flow and build.

But I'm guessing you're probably a teenager so you're excused. You'll learn.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 8/27/12 at 11:43pm

I am backing out of this argument now. I don't have a problem with the lines, but I don't understand why jan isn't allowed to have a different opinion without being called a teenager.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 8/27/12 at 11:45pm

I think the problem is that Maria only really sounds like a poet in that one songs - resulting in a somewhat inconsistent character. You can go either way regarding 'poetry', but you should stick to it through the whole show.

Fair enough. I want to add that the Maria/Juliet comparison is problematic. Juliet is the daughter of one of the wealthiest families in town; her cousin is a prince. It is to be expected that she has had more education than a working-class immigrant from the Caribbean.

[jansalrose2]

Posted: 8/28/12 at 12:00am

LOL Owen, that statement was so ridiculous, for a moment I thought you were a troll. I'm allowed to express my opinion. For instance, I think you are a delusional if you think Wicked has the best lyrics of the decade. If you think I'm alone in thinking Wicked is not the most brilliant musical to come about...you're in for a rude awakening. I'm guessing you don't see a lot of shows.

And I'm not a teenager, and I've seen over 100 shows in my life, but thanks for playing the "I'm smarter than you" game. You lose :). What leads you to think I'm a teenager? The fact that I DON'T like Wicked? Your smug, ridiculous holier-than-thou attitude is incredibly immature. This is a message board-if you don't like it when people express opinions that differ from yours, pack up your twisted panties and go elsewhere.





Updated On: 8/28/12 at 12:00 AM

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 8/28/12 at 12:11am

I've heard Sondheim say that he was unfortunately (his view) encouraged to be too poetic in his West Side lyrics aka "the world was just an address."

But the problem with that lyric isn't that it's poetry or that Tony and Maria can't use verbal conceits. The problem is it's just not a very good lyric in the context of that song. (it might be a very good lyric in a lighter more comical song, but not in a an epic love duet, or at least not in "Tonight").

It is ok to disagree with Sondheim and even to disagree with Sondheim's critiques of his own stuff.



Updated On: 8/28/12 at 12:11 AM

[jansalrose2]

Posted: 8/28/12 at 12:16am

"But the problem with that lyric isn't it's poetry. The problem is it's bad poetry."

I agree, wholeheartedly. I think that's often where shows go wrong. Beautiful musical compositions...mediocre lyrics.

[vfd88]

Posted: 8/28/12 at 12:35am

"You see that fool just standin' there.
He's as fool as a fool can be.
But that crazy fool is the man I love,
So that fool is comin' with me."

Makes me cringe every time I hear it. Actually, a lot of Memphis is a fright, lyric-wise.

[WestEndAndy]

Posted: 8/28/12 at 4:51pm

From the normally impeccable Don Black, an example of poor word-setting.

"They'll say Norma's back again".

The soaring first note of the melody requires a much stronger word than 'They'll'.
Maybe something like "Norma's back where she belongs".

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 8/28/12 at 5:17pm

WSS initially had some lyrics by Bernstein--who loves lines like "the world was just an address"--has it ever been said if any of his lyrics remained?

[SporkGoddess]

Posted: 8/28/12 at 6:11pm

I'm pretty sure that the "bridge" line from Wicked has been mentioned on this thread before. In fact, I think it's been mentioned numerous times. So, no, not everyone thinks it's a brilliant lyric.

As for "I Feel Pretty," I don't know why it isn't possible that Maria could have been singing it in Spanish all along--I mean, we assume that the characters in Les Mis are probably speaking/singing French and the characters in Passion are probably speaking/singing Italian.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 8/28/12 at 6:24pm

As someone who briefly worked with adults studying English as a second language, they often had the biggest sense of word play--so it's never bothered me.

[Owen22]

Posted: 8/28/12 at 6:35pm

"For instance, I think you are a delusional if you think Wicked has the best lyrics of the decade. If you think I'm alone in thinking Wicked is not the most brilliant musical to come about...you're in for a rude awakening. I'm guessing you don't see a lot of shows."

That is why I think you're a teenager.

Updated On: 8/28/12 at 06:35 PM

[ChiChi]

Posted: 8/28/12 at 6:43pm

Having a certain opinion doesn't necessarily mean you are a teenager. Not to mention the fact that there is NOTHING wrong with being a teenager. At 32 I wish I'd appreciated how I looked THEN as opposed to NOW!

[Owen22]

Posted: 8/28/12 at 6:50pm

So, no, not everyone thinks it's a brilliant lyric."


Well, then everyone's wrong.

[ChiChi]

Posted: 8/28/12 at 6:53pm

Or everyone is NOT wrong and everyone just has different opinions. I mean it's one lyric out of many.

[henrikegerman]

Posted: 8/28/12 at 8:04pm

Westend Andy, "the normally impeccable Don Black"???!!!!

The man who gave the world perhaps the worst lyric of all time:

Take me to a zoo that's got chimpanzees
Tell me on a Sunday please.

[ChiChi]

Posted: 8/28/12 at 8:32pm

Lol. He needed a rhyme.

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 8/28/12 at 10:26pm

That's not the only problem:

"They'll say Norma's back again".

Why are they talking about "Norma's back" in the first place? Has she a hump? Scoliosis?

Of course, that isn't what most of us think in context, but a lyricist has to beware of lines that have unintended meanings when heard alone. One can't predict exactly where the listener will put the punctuation.

This is one more reason why your version: "Norma's back where she belongs" is a better line.

Personally, I don't find Don Black "impeccable" in any way.


Updated On: 8/28/12 at 10:26 PM