Bare the musical 2010-2011 Broadway season, anymore info? — Page 2

Maybe it's because I saw the New York production and not the Los Angeles one; maybe because I tend to be anti-religion (I was born jewish and not christian, but am spiritual without being religious); maybe because I'm a middle aged gay man who came out as a teen and was active in the gay rights movement for over 30 years; maybe...

I found Bare to not only have little to say, but what it did say I found offensive and uninformed. I just wanted to smack those characters. (Truth be told, I want to smack a lot of gay youth today, too... Maybe it's just me.)

To each his own. I find the material full of positive messages and with a very memorable, at once rocking and at times gorgeous, score.

- spoiler -

Since you asked...

First, I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and I truly understand and respect that there are those moved by shows that leave me feeling little or nothing.

I am not christian and I generally find little interest in art that is strongly religious. My personal experience is that those who use the bible as their reference point have a worldview very different than my own. I don't wish to judge, and I truly want to remain open minded, but I find myself often judging people with strong religious conviction for their judgement of me not sharing their perspective.

Am I being clear?... I am okay with everyone having their own perspective, I'm not okay with that perspective limiting my options or dictating to me a moral/ethical code. I see the hypocrisy in what I'm typing, but where I am okay with my stance is that I don't try to restrict someone's worldview and I'd appreciate being offered the same respect and open mindedness.

Because of this, there is a culture within certain religious communities that I find extremely repressive. Bare is a good example of this. People have written that they find it's message inspiring. Bare makes it's point through shame and guilt. I have little patients for shame and guilt.

As I typed earlier, I am a middle aged gay man. In the late 60's early 70's it was somewhat revolutionary to be a young teen and out. I suspect I was a bit more rebellious - even defiant - that I needed to be, but age has mellowed me.

For most of my young adulthood, I struggled to create a world - perhaps community - that was visible and proud. Homophobia was the enemy, and the worst was internalized homophobia. It was an affront to everything I and my friends stood and fought for.

I wanted to believe that we accomplished a lot in those days. Unfortunately, AIDs set us back tremendously, but also our fear and belief that we had to remain invisible contributed to our ongoing repression.

Today, I am often surprised at how little was accomplished and also by how much was. Gay youth still have many of the same issues and still hold on to many of the fears that enslave us. This isn't just about coming out, it's about how we relate as a community. It's about respect for each other and our relationships, or lack of. I could go on and on...

I am tired of art where the main characters have to die. It was great when Shakespeare wrote Romeo and Juliette. Hey, I even love West Side Story. I'm over it now. Why do the role models have to be self-destructive?

Bare is about the effects of internalized homophobia and makes it's point by pulling at our heart strings. It offers no solutions. It offers no vision of possibility, or even the possibility of possibility. Please! How dull and uninspired can we be?

In fact, even in Romeo and Juliette and West Side Story, it's the hate that kills the protagonist(s). In Bare, the main character is a victim of his own weakness. In fact, the main character isn't a victim at all, he's the perpetrator. He's too weak to realize what is obvious and therefore kills himself and damages all those around him. I didn't feel sorry for his death, I felt sorry for his stupidity. Please, get a life!

For me it's tired. Done to death. Says nothing that hasn't been said a million times before. Can we please have more positive gay role models. They can have adversity, even die, but let their death be because of their struggle and not because they are victims of their own fear.

On an entirely different note... I love "rock" shows. I truly found the score to Bare loud and without much merit. I haven't listened to the score since I saw it in the theater and perhaps if I gave it another chance, I might find its artistry. Unfortunately, what I experienced was so lame and derivative (redundant much), that I never considered giving the score another chance.

Clearly, I had a reaction to Bare, but mostly, I was bored.

Updated On: 3/6/10 at 02:17 PM

Groovy Guy,

I have read your post and respect your opinion.

I also agree that teen gay suicide is a very real issue. (I am actually very curious to see Daniel Radcliffe's PSA regarding this very topic.) Trust me when I type here that while writing my earlier comments I struggled with this very issue.

I can tell you that I knew very little about Bare when I saw it. I remember reading something about it being a huge hit in LA and that it was being groomed for Broadway. I might have also seen some TV commentary, or article, but I'm not sure as it was so long ago.

I beg to differ that Bare is not religious. If I remember correctly religion was a central theme. If I'm not mistaken, even the set had a huge cross as it's central image.

Not quite the same thing, but I remember the band coming out and doing a sort of young christian's prayer circle before taking their places and starting the show. (This may support an argument regarding my own prejudice. I acknowledge this and question it.)

You are correct in that these characters were clearly not meant to be role models. Perhaps I was not very articulate in my choice of words. I think it would have been better to have said that I would like to see more positive gay images in contemporary art.

Musicals, or any art for that matter, isn't required to offer solutions, and I have seen may shows that don't which I have enjoyed. I also agree with your point about overcoming demons. This doesn't change my experience. I am not saying that Bare isn't good art. I am saying that it didn't speak to me. (For the record, I didn't think it was very good art, but again that is just my opinion.)

Groovy Guy, I do realize that internalized homophobia is still a huge issue. You have no idea how this saddens me. I think the reason I wrote about my years as an activist is to express just that. What saddens me more is that although we have come a long way, in many ways we haven't, and in some ways we are worse off. I didn't go into it, but my comment about respect within the gay community was alluding to this very issue. Today's gay youth have so many obstacles to overcome and my heart truly goes out to them. Perhaps, I want positive role models for just this reason. What I so often see is a code of ethics / morals - or lack of - that doesn't support our growth as a community, but often keeps us oppressed. I so want this to change and much of my work has been about this. Sometimes I feel overwhelmed by how much work is still needed within our community. On the other side there are those moments where I am beyond proud to be a member of the larger gay community. It's a mixed bag.

Your comments about being a victim/perpetrator are very insightful and I agree with you completely.

I'm pleased that you enjoyed Bare and took from it a "very touching depiction of what many young people go through". It wasn't my experience.

Thanks for the discussion. Again, I truly respect your perspective.

Updated On: 3/6/10 at 05:51 PM

broadwayboy101, I'm sadden to read that you feel us "older" folk are so distant from your truth. I have a gay nephew and I am amazed at some of his ideas. (I also have some straight nephews and I'm equally surprised by their ideas too.) Mostly, the belief that something happens when you get older that erases your memory, or that at 20, 40, 60, 80 or even 100 we stop experiencing isolation, sadness, a feeling of hopelessness and that at times we are just being misunderstood, isn't my truth. (Well, I'm not a 100 - or even 60 - so who knows.) I believe for most it does get easier, as we get to know ourselves better, but the palette of human emotions is vast and I believe not limited to any particular age group.

If in my posts, I communicated that I didn't realize the issues of gay suicide, I truly wasn't articulate. I never thought that Bare was unrealistic. I just felt that communicating these issues could have been done in a much more creative fashion. I just didn't think Bare was very good. That is just my opinion. (Hey, I adored Memphis, and we know how unpopular that is here.)

Anyway... Gay suicide is a huge issue and a very important one. It hurts me to the core that over 30 years later this is still a huge issue. (As a gay youth I too struggled with these issues. I just got wise and rebellious and used that energy to become strong. I also channelled it toward "the cause".)

It was never my intentions to go on about what I didn't like about Bare. I was asked, so I answered. As I've typed many time, I respect other perspectives regarding Bare. If it spoke to you, if the characters touched you, then I think that's great.

Updated On: 3/6/10 at 06:43 PM

broadwayboy101, you didn't call me "old". I just felt old. I think that's more my issue than your words.

I think your recent post is articulate and extremely wise. It speaks to some very important truths about the human experience and how we communicate - and don't - with each other. Thank you for your words. They are appreciated.

Obviously religion is a center point in Bare, but I don't think that it is showing a pro-religion message. But rather, showing how destructive it can be. I believe Jason wasn't a victim to himself, but a victim to the ideals he was taught and not being able to let go of them. He felt as if he could never be happy partly because he was raised to believe that. I think that Jason died not only because of fear, but also because of the stuggle within' himself.

And I might be taking this differently than how you meant it, Scott, but I think a solution and possibilty in Bare lies in Peter. He was able to overcome his religion and the things he was taught to accept himself, and even his overly religious mother was able to accept him. Do you understand where I am going? I almost find Peter to be a role model of this show(minus the drugs and all), granted this is only off the album.

Scott, I suggest that you listen to the score again. There are some beautiful numbers IMO, and most of them can be found on "that site." This is a little off topic and not directed at you, Scott, but I don't understand when people say these shows have no melodies, I have heard it said about this show and Next to Normal.

Updated On: 3/7/10 at 02:45 PM

I was unaware that this show was written by a "new age christian." And the remark about Next to Normal was from a reviewer in D.C. I do agree that religion causes many problems and is hypocratic though.

What an interesting conversation above. nice to see so much thoughtful discourse.

A perception of mine about Bare (and Spring Awakening to a degree and other teen-oriented entertainment) is the encouragement of young people to over-emphasize their suffering. We have a culture of glamorous tragedy, where it is considered soulful and beautiful to suffer. and I wonder if this leads young people to exaggerate their problems in their own minds. Life presents an escalating series of challenges; to treat the early ones (which, when we look back years later, seem trivial) as monumental may be ultimately a disservice.

And Bare struck me as that - banal young people, self-aggrandizing their problems which seem relatively trivial to those who have gone on to overcome much more difficult and complex life challenges.

I'm also glad this stayed so civil, we all know too well that sometimes it doesn't stay that way on these boards.

stephen, your thoughts came out perfectly clear! I was in a similar situation myself in high school, me being the Peter and a, er, "friend" taking on the Jason role. Granted, it ended nowhere near as tragically as Bare, more of just the first act, but I think that's where the chord strikes in most people that love the musical. Gay teenagers, closeted or not, will more than likely go through something like the situation in Bare, and it's nice to have a situation to relate to that isn't heterosexual.

Okay, so after getting into this rather civil discussion, I decided that I should give Bare another chance - well, at least the score.

I was surprised to find the music more melodic than it was mixed during the New York performance I saw. I actually could find some melodies. The lyrics are still pretty bad, at times childish and laughable. Really guys? I just don't see it. I tried. I really did.

Bare just isn't my cup of tea.

Scott, it was not a coincidence that the characters are performing in a production of Romeo & Juliet; clearly there are echoes of it in bare. You said it yourself that the hate surrounding Romeo & Juliet is what made them kill themselves. It's the same with Jason; he was not "a victim of his own weakness," he was killed by hate. He was taught all his life to hate (echoed in the opening number: "Hate the sinner, hate the sin") what is not deemed acceptable by the Catholic church. It is that hate, now directed at himself, that causes his death. He goes to the only place he has known for guidance in a difficult time and is told "You know in your heart that the teaching is clear." The priest tells him that what he has learned all his life, hate and unacceptance, is the true way. Jason finds no forgiveness, no sympathy from the one person he has left: God. So why continue living if it means he will be hated by everyone, including God?

Also, I'm not sure where you've gotten the idea that the show was written by "a new age Christian." It was written by two former Catholic students who had grown disheartened with their religion. It is absolutely NOT religious propoganda, and how anyone who saw this show could think it was such is baffling to me. It presents a view of the Church as a dominant presence in the lives of these teenagers - that is why the cross was overbearingly present. It served as a reminder that these people are supposed to be living under God but are still growing and making decisions on their own that do not always align with the Church.

I'm sure you can tell that I also had a very strong reaction to the show, but one very different from your own.