Bare the musical 2010-2011 Broadway season, anymore info?- Page 2

[Scott Briefer]

Posted: 3/6/10 at 12:15pm

Maybe it's because I saw the New York production and not the Los Angeles one; maybe because I tend to be anti-religion (I was born jewish and not christian, but am spiritual without being religious); maybe because I'm a middle aged gay man who came out as a teen and was active in the gay rights movement for over 30 years; maybe...

I found Bare to not only have little to say, but what it did say I found offensive and uninformed. I just wanted to smack those characters. (Truth be told, I want to smack a lot of gay youth today, too... Maybe it's just me.)

[Scott Briefer]

Posted: 3/6/10 at 12:17pm

Oh, and I found the music to be loud and not very melodic. I actually thought the score dreadful. I don't remember the lyrics being very good or insightful either, but honestly, I don't remember them being much of anything...

What I remember most was being bored and annoyed. Updated On: 3/6/10 at 12:17 PM

[tourboi]

Posted: 3/6/10 at 12:39pm

To each his own. I find the material full of positive messages and with a very memorable, at once rocking and at times gorgeous, score.

[alliez92092]

Posted: 3/6/10 at 1:52pm

Scott, what specifically about the message did you find to be uninformed and offensive? I'm not trying to be snarky, I'm genuinely curious.

I for one really enjoy the show. I didn't become a fan of it until a few months after it closed but it really tugged at my heartstrings and for a long time all I could listen to was Bare. I've since become more educated and been able to see some of the problems that lie within the show, but overall I still really appreciate it.

I would love for Bare to come to Broadway but given the history of the production and it's team, it seems very unlikely. Bare is already finding a great home among community and regional theaters. While it would be great for it to reach the Broadway audience, it doesn't need it.

[Scott Briefer]

Posted: 3/6/10 at 2:17pm

- spoiler -

Since you asked...

First, I think everyone is entitled to their opinion and I truly understand and respect that there are those moved by shows that leave me feeling little or nothing.

I am not christian and I generally find little interest in art that is strongly religious. My personal experience is that those who use the bible as their reference point have a worldview very different than my own. I don't wish to judge, and I truly want to remain open minded, but I find myself often judging people with strong religious conviction for their judgement of me not sharing their perspective.

Am I being clear?... I am okay with everyone having their own perspective, I'm not okay with that perspective limiting my options or dictating to me a moral/ethical code. I see the hypocrisy in what I'm typing, but where I am okay with my stance is that I don't try to restrict someone's worldview and I'd appreciate being offered the same respect and open mindedness.

Because of this, there is a culture within certain religious communities that I find extremely repressive. Bare is a good example of this. People have written that they find it's message inspiring. Bare makes it's point through shame and guilt. I have little patients for shame and guilt.

As I typed earlier, I am a middle aged gay man. In the late 60's early 70's it was somewhat revolutionary to be a young teen and out. I suspect I was a bit more rebellious - even defiant - that I needed to be, but age has mellowed me.

For most of my young adulthood, I struggled to create a world - perhaps community - that was visible and proud. Homophobia was the enemy, and the worst was internalized homophobia. It was an affront to everything I and my friends stood and fought for.

I wanted to believe that we accomplished a lot in those days. Unfortunately, AIDs set us back tremendously, but also our fear and belief that we had to remain invisible contributed to our ongoing repression.

Today, I am often surprised at how little was accomplished and also by how much was. Gay youth still have many of the same issues and still hold on to many of the fears that enslave us. This isn't just about coming out, it's about how we relate as a community. It's about respect for each other and our relationships, or lack of. I could go on and on...

I am tired of art where the main characters have to die. It was great when Shakespeare wrote Romeo and Juliette. Hey, I even love West Side Story. I'm over it now. Why do the role models have to be self-destructive?

Bare is about the effects of internalized homophobia and makes it's point by pulling at our heart strings. It offers no solutions. It offers no vision of possibility, or even the possibility of possibility. Please! How dull and uninspired can we be?

In fact, even in Romeo and Juliette and West Side Story, it's the hate that kills the protagonist(s). In Bare, the main character is a victim of his own weakness. In fact, the main character isn't a victim at all, he's the perpetrator. He's too weak to realize what is obvious and therefore kills himself and damages all those around him. I didn't feel sorry for his death, I felt sorry for his stupidity. Please, get a life!

For me it's tired. Done to death. Says nothing that hasn't been said a million times before. Can we please have more positive gay role models. They can have adversity, even die, but let their death be because of their struggle and not because they are victims of their own fear.

On an entirely different note... I love "rock" shows. I truly found the score to Bare loud and without much merit. I haven't listened to the score since I saw it in the theater and perhaps if I gave it another chance, I might find its artistry. Unfortunately, what I experienced was so lame and derivative (redundant much), that I never considered giving the score another chance.

Clearly, I had a reaction to Bare, but mostly, I was bored.






Updated On: 3/6/10 at 02:17 PM

[That Groovy Guy]

Posted: 3/6/10 at 5:25pm

Wow Scott, I think I must have seen some totally different Bare. I've read and reread your post several times and still can't see how any gay person (or maybe even any person) could have possibly found the show offensive.

"I am not christian and I generally find little interest in art that is strongly religious."
A) Not only is Bare not religious, I (an agnostic myself) would say that for the most part it is actually opposed to what most religions (particularly Catholicism) teach regarding homosexuality.
B) If by "religious" you mean about people dealing with religion as opposed to promoting or dedicated to religion, I don't see why anyone would bother to see Bare if they were that turned off by it, unless they knew nothing at all about it before seeing it. Even the poster for the show (in NYC at least) made it clear that it would be dealing with religion.


"Why do the role models have to be self-destructive?"
A) Nobody ever said that these characters are role models, in fact I think the show makes it blatantly obvious that people should NOT model their lives like Jason.
B) Gay suicide is, and probably always will be a very real problem.

"Bare is about the effects of internalized homophobia and makes it's point by pulling at our heart strings. It offers no solutions. It offers no vision of possibility, or even the possibility of possibility. Please! How dull and uninspired can we be?"
A) Since when are musicals, plays, shows, books etc required to or even supposed to offer solutions? If you want that, there's always the Brady Bunch where everyone's problems are neatly solved in just under a half hour. Howsabout that for uninspired?
B) Since when does LIFE always offer realistic solutions? The fact is that Jason could have gone through a lifetime of therapy and medication and still never have overcome his self loathing. It's not at all uncommon for people to not be able to overcome their demons, no matter how hard they try.


"In Bare, the main character is a victim of his own weakness. In fact, the main character isn't a victim at all, he's the perpetrator. He's too weak to realize what is obvious and therefore kills himself and damages all those around him. I didn't feel sorry for his death, I felt sorry for his stupidity. Please, get a life!"
A) To me, this seems almost homophobic. Don't you realize that there are millions of gay people that to a certain extent feel very similar to Jason? I honestly don't mean this as attack on you by any means but can you be that oblivious to not know that not only is this still a serious issue in gay youth but self doubt and thoughts of harming oneself are extremely common in youths, both gay AND straight?
B) Being a victim/perpetrator of ones own weakness is a very realistic issue in general. This is why people abuse alcohol and drugs among other things. Not too far fetched; not too uncommon.

I think in the story lines of Peter/Jason, Ivy, Matt, Nadia etc that Bare gives a very realistic and very touching depiction of what many young people go through. I don't know whether or not the show was meant to do more than that. Maybe it was, maybe it wasn't. I applaud the show though for depicting two gay people in love regardless of how tumultuous the relationship may be. Believe it or not, it's not uncommon for people to NOT realize that gay people can actually be in love. I even heard one theater goer tell another that they were really touched by the show and had never imagined that they could feel a connection with two guys in love. I'm sure she wasn't the only one who felt that way so I think that Bare does have great value.

[Scott Briefer]

Posted: 3/6/10 at 5:51pm

Groovy Guy,

I have read your post and respect your opinion.

I also agree that teen gay suicide is a very real issue. (I am actually very curious to see Daniel Radcliffe's PSA regarding this very topic.) Trust me when I type here that while writing my earlier comments I struggled with this very issue.

I can tell you that I knew very little about Bare when I saw it. I remember reading something about it being a huge hit in LA and that it was being groomed for Broadway. I might have also seen some TV commentary, or article, but I'm not sure as it was so long ago.

I beg to differ that Bare is not religious. If I remember correctly religion was a central theme. If I'm not mistaken, even the set had a huge cross as it's central image.

Not quite the same thing, but I remember the band coming out and doing a sort of young christian's prayer circle before taking their places and starting the show. (This may support an argument regarding my own prejudice. I acknowledge this and question it.)

You are correct in that these characters were clearly not meant to be role models. Perhaps I was not very articulate in my choice of words. I think it would have been better to have said that I would like to see more positive gay images in contemporary art.

Musicals, or any art for that matter, isn't required to offer solutions, and I have seen may shows that don't which I have enjoyed. I also agree with your point about overcoming demons. This doesn't change my experience. I am not saying that Bare isn't good art. I am saying that it didn't speak to me. (For the record, I didn't think it was very good art, but again that is just my opinion.)

Groovy Guy, I do realize that internalized homophobia is still a huge issue. You have no idea how this saddens me. I think the reason I wrote about my years as an activist is to express just that. What saddens me more is that although we have come a long way, in many ways we haven't, and in some ways we are worse off. I didn't go into it, but my comment about respect within the gay community was alluding to this very issue. Today's gay youth have so many obstacles to overcome and my heart truly goes out to them. Perhaps, I want positive role models for just this reason. What I so often see is a code of ethics / morals - or lack of - that doesn't support our growth as a community, but often keeps us oppressed. I so want this to change and much of my work has been about this. Sometimes I feel overwhelmed by how much work is still needed within our community. On the other side there are those moments where I am beyond proud to be a member of the larger gay community. It's a mixed bag.

Your comments about being a victim/perpetrator are very insightful and I agree with you completely.

I'm pleased that you enjoyed Bare and took from it a "very touching depiction of what many young people go through". It wasn't my experience.

Thanks for the discussion. Again, I truly respect your perspective.






Updated On: 3/6/10 at 05:51 PM

[broadwayboy101]

Posted: 3/6/10 at 6:28pm

Having recently graduated high school, I can attest to the fact that teenagers now are strikingly similar to the ones portrayed in Bare. Yes, it is a very sad truth, but there are many closeted teens who feel like suicide is a better solution than coming out in today's society. Yes, there are closeted gay teens who have sex with women for a variety of reasons, not limited to trying to turn straight. People that haven't been in school in a long time just don't seem to realize how the teenage minds work in this day and age. Even an absence of 5 years or less can distance someone from that mindset.

[Scott Briefer]

Posted: 3/6/10 at 6:43pm

broadwayboy101, I'm sadden to read that you feel us "older" folk are so distant from your truth. I have a gay nephew and I am amazed at some of his ideas. (I also have some straight nephews and I'm equally surprised by their ideas too.) Mostly, the belief that something happens when you get older that erases your memory, or that at 20, 40, 60, 80 or even 100 we stop experiencing isolation, sadness, a feeling of hopelessness and that at times we are just being misunderstood, isn't my truth. (Well, I'm not a 100 - or even 60 - so who knows.) I believe for most it does get easier, as we get to know ourselves better, but the palette of human emotions is vast and I believe not limited to any particular age group.

If in my posts, I communicated that I didn't realize the issues of gay suicide, I truly wasn't articulate. I never thought that Bare was unrealistic. I just felt that communicating these issues could have been done in a much more creative fashion. I just didn't think Bare was very good. That is just my opinion. (Hey, I adored Memphis, and we know how unpopular that is here.)

Anyway... Gay suicide is a huge issue and a very important one. It hurts me to the core that over 30 years later this is still a huge issue. (As a gay youth I too struggled with these issues. I just got wise and rebellious and used that energy to become strong. I also channelled it toward "the cause".)

It was never my intentions to go on about what I didn't like about Bare. I was asked, so I answered. As I've typed many time, I respect other perspectives regarding Bare. If it spoke to you, if the characters touched you, then I think that's great.

Updated On: 3/6/10 at 06:43 PM

[broadwayboy101]

Posted: 3/6/10 at 6:54pm

Having re-read my post, I'm terribly sorry if I came off as calling you "old" or anything of the kind. In my experience (purely my own), the adults that would say "I understand what you're going through" or anything of the like clearly...didn't. It wasn't that they hadn't been through what I had been through, it was just that it had been a length of time since they had felt the same way so they had a sense of detachment. I will be the first to admit that the things that I saw as a "big deal" in high school were, in hindsight, not that big of a deal at all, but a lot of people don't quite get that those are still big deals to the ones going through them. And, of course, not EVERYONE is like that (there were a few adults that seemed to be able to put themselves in any situation and any mindset, it was astounding), but a majority seem to be. And I definitely second the respect to others' views, I'm just putting mine out there as well.

[Scott Briefer]

Posted: 3/6/10 at 7:07pm

broadwayboy101, you didn't call me "old". I just felt old. I think that's more my issue than your words.

I think your recent post is articulate and extremely wise. It speaks to some very important truths about the human experience and how we communicate - and don't - with each other. Thank you for your words. They are appreciated.

[Soliantu]

Posted: 3/6/10 at 9:41pm

It's interesting how differently people can take things. As someone whom is not Christian myself and has very serious problems with religion and the problems it causes in the world.. I loved bare for the fact that it was displaying religion in such a negative way. How it was pointing out how closed minded and shunning they are... and the problems and horrible consequences it can and has caused... That's how I took it and one of the reasons I liked the messages it gave.

[BwayTday]

Posted: 3/7/10 at 2:45pm

Obviously religion is a center point in Bare, but I don't think that it is showing a pro-religion message. But rather, showing how destructive it can be. I believe Jason wasn't a victim to himself, but a victim to the ideals he was taught and not being able to let go of them. He felt as if he could never be happy partly because he was raised to believe that. I think that Jason died not only because of fear, but also because of the stuggle within' himself.

And I might be taking this differently than how you meant it, Scott, but I think a solution and possibilty in Bare lies in Peter. He was able to overcome his religion and the things he was taught to accept himself, and even his overly religious mother was able to accept him. Do you understand where I am going? I almost find Peter to be a role model of this show(minus the drugs and all), granted this is only off the album.

Scott, I suggest that you listen to the score again. There are some beautiful numbers IMO, and most of them can be found on "that site." This is a little off topic and not directed at you, Scott, but I don't understand when people say these shows have no melodies, I have heard it said about this show and Next to Normal.
Updated On: 3/7/10 at 02:45 PM

[Scott Briefer]

Posted: 3/7/10 at 6:16pm

I was deeply moved by Next to Normal. And, I like the score; some of it a lot.

On the issue of religion. Bare was written by a new age christian. (Not sure if that's the appropriate title, but a young christian who is socially liberal and wishes to help expand the vision of the church especially regarding homosexuality. God forbid they consider abortion.)

After having written all of these posts, I remember reading an article about this movement and the role Bare played in this. (Perhaps, a Google search will find that article.)

I suspect it being grounded in a movement of christian youth for social change really pushed my buttons. Like Soliantu, I find religion to be the source of so much of what is wrong today. I find it's doctrine steeped in hypocrisy.

As I wrote earlier, I think I was turned off before the first note, when the cast and crew came out in front of the audience and did a prayer circle. I guess I have a lot of anger towards institutions which preach love yet make it their business to be in everyone's business and often to spread shame and guilt.

Bare wasn't enlightening for me. Bare was about weakness and fear without courage. I didn't like the characters, they were shallow and without the conviction of their truth.

That is what I saw. I realize other people saw other things.





Updated On: 3/7/10 at 06:16 PM

[BwayTday]

Posted: 3/7/10 at 8:24pm

I was unaware that this show was written by a "new age christian." And the remark about Next to Normal was from a reviewer in D.C. I do agree that religion causes many problems and is hypocratic though.

[spiderdj82]

Posted: 3/7/10 at 9:31pm

Before I say anything, please know that I respect your opinion and I'm, in no way, trying to change it or say that you are wrong.

Yes, Christianity plays a major role in this but not in the way you are making it sound. They are in a Catholic private school, hence the stain glass window and quoting of the "Hail Mary." BUT, it doesn't preach that the church is right. In fact, at the end of the musical, the priest asks Peter for his forgiveness for not acting on what is right. Also, the priest even says in one song that the Church can be wrong about things.

I also completely disagree with you about the show having weak characters and not showing any courage. In the song where Peter calls his mom to tell her he's gay.....that takes A LOT of courage, especially if you grow up in a religious household. And, at the end, after Peter sings, "It's so hard to find your way when you have no voice to guide you" and then his mother steps out and gives him a hug. Again, that took a lot of courage on her part, even though it shouldn't be. Yes, Jason took his life, but, sadly, this happens. Should a show ignore these themes just because it is not the "proper" thing to do?

I just think that you hate the idea of religion so much that you wrote the musical off from the first few seconds (even you admitted that). You didn't give yourself room to like the show, because you put up all of these barriers. I am not saying that you are wrong, because it happens to the best of us. But, again, stuff like this DOES happen and I don't think it preached religion but the love and faith that we should have for everyone around us.

[newintown]

Posted: 3/8/10 at 10:56am

What an interesting conversation above. nice to see so much thoughtful discourse.

A perception of mine about Bare (and Spring Awakening to a degree and other teen-oriented entertainment) is the encouragement of young people to over-emphasize their suffering. We have a culture of glamorous tragedy, where it is considered soulful and beautiful to suffer. and I wonder if this leads young people to exaggerate their problems in their own minds. Life presents an escalating series of challenges; to treat the early ones (which, when we look back years later, seem trivial) as monumental may be ultimately a disservice.

And Bare struck me as that - banal young people, self-aggrandizing their problems which seem relatively trivial to those who have gone on to overcome much more difficult and complex life challenges.

[Scott Briefer]

Posted: 3/8/10 at 2:37pm

BwayTday. I'm sorry if my comments regarding Next to Normal seemed as if I thought you were speaking about me. I didn't. I just wanted to type that I liked Next to Normal. I think I wanted to impress that I like music written in a "rock" genre.

I am please that this discussion has been so civil. I too think that many of the comments have been intelligent and insightful. It reminds me that there are many different perspectives and keeps me rethinking what I think I know.

Thank you.

[Soliantu]

Posted: 3/8/10 at 9:52pm

I'm also glad this stayed so civil, we all know too well that sometimes it doesn't stay that way on these boards.

[x_stephen_x]

Posted: 3/10/10 at 6:33pm

I think its a testamant to a show that it can spark off such interesting discussions about it's content. I first watched and listened to Bare a few months ago and have really fallen in love with it, it is one of my favourite musicals.

Just because religion is a main theme, i dont believe it makes it a "religious show". It does not show religion in either a positive or negative way, it merely shows it in a realistic way. Sorry if i upset any Christians, but the Catholic Church IS extremely outdated and hypocritical in real life, especially in regard to homosexuality, and this show reflects that, not by saying "oh look how evil they are" but by portraying it in a way that the audience can make their own decision, and most will agree that the Church treats the characters unfairly. That is not the musical showing the Church in a bad light, that is the light that the Church itself creates.

I do not think that the Church is to blame solely for Jason's death, yes it plays a part in it, as if Jason had not grown up with it he would probably not have had so many issues with his homosexuality, but I agree that his committing suicide is a sign of his weakness. I know that sounds harsh and I'm not saying that dealing with homosexuality is not an important issue, it really really is, but i don't believe death solves any problems. There are a lot of of teenagers who kill themselves due to problems with there sexuality and i believe that musicals should not shy away from these issues.
(Saying this, even as a huge fan of the show, the first time i saaw the show, when Jason died i was thinking "well thats a bit pointlessly dramatic" and i still feel that way now, maybe its cos i like cheesy musicals :))

I am a gay teenager myself, and I have been in a situation similar to Peter's, with a guy acting like Jason, and I think Bare perfectly encapsulates real young peoples feelings, I feel like it was written about me. I think that Nadia, Ivy and Matt are also very realistic characters that many young people can relate to.

Sorry if all this comes out as a bit of a jumbled mess, i'm really bad at writing and putting my point across, but i know what i mean, lol

[broadwayboy101]

Posted: 3/10/10 at 8:50pm

stephen, your thoughts came out perfectly clear! I was in a similar situation myself in high school, me being the Peter and a, er, "friend" taking on the Jason role. Granted, it ended nowhere near as tragically as Bare, more of just the first act, but I think that's where the chord strikes in most people that love the musical. Gay teenagers, closeted or not, will more than likely go through something like the situation in Bare, and it's nice to have a situation to relate to that isn't heterosexual.

[Soliantu]

Posted: 3/11/10 at 2:40am

Stephen, I very much agree with most of your points as well.. Suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem. I thought the death was a bit much at first too, I now see why they did it though. The song Absolution, helped put it in perspective for me. It shows the hypocricy of the church and Peter got to show the Priest what their ignorance caused. PriestL "we always ask ourselves if there's something more we could have done" Peter: "do you ask yourself that?", Priest: "Me", Peter: "He went to you for guidance, you hid behind a screen..." I think it is an EXTREME case circumstance, but I think now it was needed to fully make the shows point of what avoiding the gay topic, whether its your parents or the church, can cause.. especially since it's all still an ongoing problem unfortunately...including suicide in youths

[Scott Briefer]

Posted: 3/11/10 at 2:57am

Okay, so after getting into this rather civil discussion, I decided that I should give Bare another chance - well, at least the score.

I was surprised to find the music more melodic than it was mixed during the New York performance I saw. I actually could find some melodies. The lyrics are still pretty bad, at times childish and laughable. Really guys? I just don't see it. I tried. I really did.

Bare just isn't my cup of tea.

[alliez92092]

Posted: 3/11/10 at 5:16pm

That's totally fine! I just applaud you and everyone else for having such a civilized discussion and giving other people's opinions a chance. If more threads were like this, than BWW would be a much better place :)

[perfectliar]

Posted: 3/11/10 at 10:13pm

Scott, it was not a coincidence that the characters are performing in a production of Romeo & Juliet; clearly there are echoes of it in bare. You said it yourself that the hate surrounding Romeo & Juliet is what made them kill themselves. It's the same with Jason; he was not "a victim of his own weakness," he was killed by hate. He was taught all his life to hate (echoed in the opening number: "Hate the sinner, hate the sin") what is not deemed acceptable by the Catholic church. It is that hate, now directed at himself, that causes his death. He goes to the only place he has known for guidance in a difficult time and is told "You know in your heart that the teaching is clear." The priest tells him that what he has learned all his life, hate and unacceptance, is the true way. Jason finds no forgiveness, no sympathy from the one person he has left: God. So why continue living if it means he will be hated by everyone, including God?

Also, I'm not sure where you've gotten the idea that the show was written by "a new age Christian." It was written by two former Catholic students who had grown disheartened with their religion. It is absolutely NOT religious propoganda, and how anyone who saw this show could think it was such is baffling to me. It presents a view of the Church as a dominant presence in the lives of these teenagers - that is why the cross was overbearingly present. It served as a reminder that these people are supposed to be living under God but are still growing and making decisions on their own that do not always align with the Church.

I'm sure you can tell that I also had a very strong reaction to the show, but one very different from your own.