#1
Posted: 6/2/06 at 1:19pm
I'm just mildly curious if any popular musicals throughout our generation have ever featured a bass-baritone or a baritone as the lead?
Bass-Baritones, Baritones, and Lead Roles
#2
Posted: 6/2/06 at 1:21pm
Isn't the Beast in "Beauty and the Beast" a Baritone?
#3
Posted: 6/2/06 at 1:23pm
Yeah. Most all the musicals in the Golden Era had bass-baritone leads. It wasn't really until the late 70s/80s that tenors start getting lead roles, right? It's a touchy subject because a lot of baritones can hit tenor notes, and vice versa.
#4
Posted: 6/2/06 at 1:28pm
Good point, RentBoy. Sometimes voicetype can seem rather arbitrary, as some people have such huge vocal ranges that they can sing pretty much anything, i.e. Michael Cerveris who has played the title roles in both "The Who's Tommy" (rock tenor) and "Sweeney Todd" (legit bass-baritone).
#5
Posted: 6/2/06 at 1:42pm
However, here are some (although not many) modern musicals with a baritone as the leading male role:
Ragtime (Coalhouse)
Beauty and the Beast (Beast)
Passion (Giorgio)
The Producers (Max)
Dirty Rotten Scoundrels (Lawrence)
Can anyone help me out here?
Ragtime (Coalhouse)
Beauty and the Beast (Beast)
Passion (Giorgio)
The Producers (Max)
Dirty Rotten Scoundrels (Lawrence)
Can anyone help me out here?
Updated On: 6/2/06 at 01:42 PM
#6
Posted: 6/2/06 at 1:48pm
Titanic has a big mix of bass-baritones-tenors.
#7
Posted: 6/2/06 at 1:52pm
Most musicals (modern or classic) are written for Tenors in order to force the performer to project his voice.
Sometimes the Broadway show will feature a baritone lead, but when they release the show, they usually change the music for this reason.
I can tell you that this is a philosophy that simply does not usually work.
Sometimes the Broadway show will feature a baritone lead, but when they release the show, they usually change the music for this reason.
I can tell you that this is a philosophy that simply does not usually work.
#8
Posted: 6/2/06 at 2:25pm
Well, I don't think it has anything to do with trying to get a performer to project his voice. If anything, projection is hardly a requirement anymore with modern (over)amplification. I think the trend of having most leading male roles be tenor-range has to do more with the change in style of musical theater music, which has acquired much more of a pop-music sound.
#9
Posted: 6/2/06 at 4:14pm
Some other ideas:
Guido - NINE
Stone - CITY OF ANGELS
Will Rogers - WILL ROGERS FOLLIES
Dr. Craven - SECRET GARDEN
Dracula - DRACULA
Mufasa & Scar - LION KING
Marvin - FALSETTOS (bari-tenor)
Joe Gillis - SUNSET BLVD (bari-tenor)
Raoul - PHANTOM ALW (bari-tenor)
Father - WHISTLE DOWN THE WIND
Passpartou - AMOUR
Leo Frank - PARADE
both leads in LA CAGE AUX FOLLES
How far back are we talking about?
Guido - NINE
Stone - CITY OF ANGELS
Will Rogers - WILL ROGERS FOLLIES
Dr. Craven - SECRET GARDEN
Dracula - DRACULA
Mufasa & Scar - LION KING
Marvin - FALSETTOS (bari-tenor)
Joe Gillis - SUNSET BLVD (bari-tenor)
Raoul - PHANTOM ALW (bari-tenor)
Father - WHISTLE DOWN THE WIND
Passpartou - AMOUR
Leo Frank - PARADE
both leads in LA CAGE AUX FOLLES
How far back are we talking about?
#10
Posted: 6/2/06 at 5:06pm
John Truit(sp?) in Meet Me In St Louis.
Captain Hook in Peter Pan
Marius in Les Miz
Anthony in Sweeney Todd
Tom Marlowe, Coach and Pooch in Good News!
Captain Hook in Peter Pan
Marius in Les Miz
Anthony in Sweeney Todd
Tom Marlowe, Coach and Pooch in Good News!
"The only way we live beyond our lives is to connect and carve ourselves into the souls of those we love." -Little Fish
#11
Posted: 6/2/06 at 5:12pm
Well, I was speaking specifically of baritones who are the LEAD, rather than a supporting role.
Also, although some roles are written in baritone range, they sound better and/or are more appropriate for the character if sung by a tenor, i.e. Leo Frank in "Parade".
Also, although some roles are written in baritone range, they sound better and/or are more appropriate for the character if sung by a tenor, i.e. Leo Frank in "Parade".
#12
Posted: 6/2/06 at 5:16pm
That is funny that you said that, because although Leo is written in baritone range, it seems much more appropriate when sung by a tenor.
"The only way we live beyond our lives is to connect and carve ourselves into the souls of those we love." -Little Fish
#13
Posted: 6/2/06 at 5:22pm
I am a baritone, so I admit it can be hard.
But I must disagree about Giorgio in Passion and Leo in Parade as being baritones. They hit clear tenor notes in a couple of songs.
But I must disagree about Giorgio in Passion and Leo in Parade as being baritones. They hit clear tenor notes in a couple of songs.
...What happened next, was stranger still, a woman breathless and afraid, appeared out of the night, completely dressed in white. She had a secret she would tell, of one who had mistreated her. Her face and frightened gaze, my mind cannot erase...But then she ran from view. She looked so much like you...
#14
Posted: 6/2/06 at 5:33pm
GClef2--Isn't that what I said?
AllForLaura, you are probably right. Both Leo and Giorgio probably have to hit G's at some point, but there are many men who consider themselves baritones who can easily hit a G (I, sadly, am not one of them).
AllForLaura, you are probably right. Both Leo and Giorgio probably have to hit G's at some point, but there are many men who consider themselves baritones who can easily hit a G (I, sadly, am not one of them).
#15
Posted: 6/2/06 at 5:40pm
Agreed.
I wish I could easily hit a G. My voice coach is working to get me in that direction, but right now I am not hitting g's like Brent Carver or Jere Shea/Michael Ball can.
I wish I could easily hit a G. My voice coach is working to get me in that direction, but right now I am not hitting g's like Brent Carver or Jere Shea/Michael Ball can.
...What happened next, was stranger still, a woman breathless and afraid, appeared out of the night, completely dressed in white. She had a secret she would tell, of one who had mistreated her. Her face and frightened gaze, my mind cannot erase...But then she ran from view. She looked so much like you...
#16
Posted: 6/2/06 at 7:39pm
The Bass roles are few. I can only think of the guy in Showboad "Old Man River" and Caiaphus(spelling?) in Jesus Christ Superstar.
But Baritone can be deceiving, IMO. Most people say that Curly in 'Oklahoma' and Billy in 'Carousel' are Baritones. But they go all the way up to a G. The highest notes that most solo parts usually go to are not much higher. So the difference between Baritone and Tenor isn't that much at all.
But Baritone can be deceiving, IMO. Most people say that Curly in 'Oklahoma' and Billy in 'Carousel' are Baritones. But they go all the way up to a G. The highest notes that most solo parts usually go to are not much higher. So the difference between Baritone and Tenor isn't that much at all.
#17
Posted: 6/2/06 at 7:57pm
gaston in b&tb
edna turnblad
most of the producers leads are bari or bari-tenor
edna turnblad
most of the producers leads are bari or bari-tenor
"Grease," the fourth revival of the season, is the worst show in the history of theater and represents an unparalleled assault on Western civilization and its values. - Michael Reidel
#18
Posted: 6/2/06 at 8:31pm
When does Curly hit a G? I'd say he tops out at around F#... though I've heard Curlys who sang the end line of Oklahoma really high... John Raitt comes to mind.
Billy definitely has a few Gs, though. They're tough but I can pull them out and I consider myself a lyric baritone.
Billy definitely has a few Gs, though. They're tough but I can pull them out and I consider myself a lyric baritone.
#19
Posted: 6/2/06 at 9:07pm
This is just one of those areas of great debate isnt it?
Best to avoid the labels and say "this is my vocal range"
However what people look for when casting is a vocal quality. For example both James Barbour and John Barrowman have played the Beast in BatB. However James Barbour has an unmistakable heavier tone to his voice. Whereas Barrowman is very light and "tenor" sounding. Having heard Barbour and seen Barrowman they both do well with this character. The point is though that certain characters really look for one quality over the other.
The Beast seems to be one of the roles that attracts all sorts really! However I cant imagine hearing John Barrowman sing the role of Javert in LesMis can you? He has the range for it and it only has that one really low note in Confrontation. But it just wouldnt sound right. Barbour would be perfect though.
Sorry for using James Barbour as an example but he makes such a good contrast with Barrowman.
Best to avoid the labels and say "this is my vocal range"
However what people look for when casting is a vocal quality. For example both James Barbour and John Barrowman have played the Beast in BatB. However James Barbour has an unmistakable heavier tone to his voice. Whereas Barrowman is very light and "tenor" sounding. Having heard Barbour and seen Barrowman they both do well with this character. The point is though that certain characters really look for one quality over the other.
The Beast seems to be one of the roles that attracts all sorts really! However I cant imagine hearing John Barrowman sing the role of Javert in LesMis can you? He has the range for it and it only has that one really low note in Confrontation. But it just wouldnt sound right. Barbour would be perfect though.
Sorry for using James Barbour as an example but he makes such a good contrast with Barrowman.
#20
Posted: 6/2/06 at 9:13pm
another big baritone role of recent shows- mr trevor graydon, who actually has pretty much the same range as gaston (marc kudish and chris sieber both played both roles)
"Grease," the fourth revival of the season, is the worst show in the history of theater and represents an unparalleled assault on Western civilization and its values. - Michael Reidel
#21
Posted: 6/2/06 at 9:21pm
Don Quixote, MAN OF LA MANCHA
Billy Bigelow, CAROUSEL
Capt. von Trapp, THE SOUND OF MUSIC
Frank Butler, ANNIE GET YOUR GUN
Judd Fry, OKLAHOMA!
Lt. Cable, SOUTH PACIFIC
The King, THE KING AND I
Albert Peterson, BYE BYE BIRDIE
Conrad Birdie, BYE BYE BIRDIE
Emcee, CABARET
Cliff, CABARET
Juan Peron, EVITA
Ben, FOLLIES
Buddy, FOLLIES
All men, THE FULL MONTY
Both princes, INTO THE WOODS
Rochester, JANE EYRE
Most men, KISS ME, KATE
Jekyll/Hyde, JEKYLL AND HYDE
Percy, THE SCARLET PIMPERNEL
Marius, LES MISERABLES
Enjrolas, LES MISERABLES
Thenadier, LES MISERABLES
Seymour, LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS
Most men, 1776
Jesus, GODSPELL
Tevye, FIDDLER ON THE ROOF
Perchek, FIDDLER ON THE ROOF
There are hundreds....
Billy Bigelow, CAROUSEL
Capt. von Trapp, THE SOUND OF MUSIC
Frank Butler, ANNIE GET YOUR GUN
Judd Fry, OKLAHOMA!
Lt. Cable, SOUTH PACIFIC
The King, THE KING AND I
Albert Peterson, BYE BYE BIRDIE
Conrad Birdie, BYE BYE BIRDIE
Emcee, CABARET
Cliff, CABARET
Juan Peron, EVITA
Ben, FOLLIES
Buddy, FOLLIES
All men, THE FULL MONTY
Both princes, INTO THE WOODS
Rochester, JANE EYRE
Most men, KISS ME, KATE
Jekyll/Hyde, JEKYLL AND HYDE
Percy, THE SCARLET PIMPERNEL
Marius, LES MISERABLES
Enjrolas, LES MISERABLES
Thenadier, LES MISERABLES
Seymour, LITTLE SHOP OF HORRORS
Most men, 1776
Jesus, GODSPELL
Tevye, FIDDLER ON THE ROOF
Perchek, FIDDLER ON THE ROOF
There are hundreds....
"If you are going to do something, do it well. And leave something witchy."
-Charlie Manson
#22
Posted: 6/2/06 at 11:24pm
Allow me to elaborate on my first post:
When the creators of a show contract with an agent (such as MTI) to release a show to the public, they must consider that many community and local theatres cannot afford, or simply do not use much microphone amplification (I have worked for several that operate this way). Therefore, vocal projection MUST be a consideration when preparing a show to be performed by local performers.
When the creators of a show contract with an agent (such as MTI) to release a show to the public, they must consider that many community and local theatres cannot afford, or simply do not use much microphone amplification (I have worked for several that operate this way). Therefore, vocal projection MUST be a consideration when preparing a show to be performed by local performers.
#23
Posted: 6/2/06 at 11:26pm
Composers don't write music in certain keys based on whether they think a given amateur can project or not - you've got to be kidding.
Often times, the keys you get from Tams, MTI, etc. are the original keys of the show - or the key they were originally written in.
That's why MTI offers Transpositions on Demand, which are great.
Often times, the keys you get from Tams, MTI, etc. are the original keys of the show - or the key they were originally written in.
That's why MTI offers Transpositions on Demand, which are great.
"If you are going to do something, do it well. And leave something witchy."
-Charlie Manson
#24
Posted: 6/3/06 at 12:30am
Munk--
Of course there are countless baritone principal roles. But the argument here I believe is that in modern musicals, THE male lead (rather than a "second lead" or a supporting character) is a usually a tenor.
P.S.: Although they lowered the keys for Jekyll/Hyde when Robert Cuccioli took over from Anthony Warlow, the licensed version is in the original keys, which are DEFINITELY tenor territory.
Of course there are countless baritone principal roles. But the argument here I believe is that in modern musicals, THE male lead (rather than a "second lead" or a supporting character) is a usually a tenor.
P.S.: Although they lowered the keys for Jekyll/Hyde when Robert Cuccioli took over from Anthony Warlow, the licensed version is in the original keys, which are DEFINITELY tenor territory.
#25
Posted: 6/3/06 at 12:33am
Also, ALL of the male principals in "The Full Monty" are tenors. I've played Harold, which is the one role that can be sung by a baritone, and even he has to hit the (many) high A's in "Let It Go". (I'm embarassed to admit that I had to use my falsetto--the musical director was cool with it since there were five other guys singing with me.)
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