Broadway Holograms

[Fanadette]

Posted: 4/17/12 at 6:04pm

I'm going to apologize in advance if this has already been discussed in a previous thread. I've been a long time lurker here on the Broadway World forum and this is my first post...ever, so please bare with me. I know that a Tupac Shakur hologram was recently premiered at the Coachella Music Festival and it got me thinking. Which deceased Broadway star would you like to see resurrected in holographic format? My money's on the late, great Ethel Merman. So many of the biographies I've read about her say that her appeal can only be understood when seeing her live and in person, and it's always been my dream to do so, even if she is in a holographic, digitized format. By the way, here's a link to a video of the holographic Tupac. It looks very realistic, no?
Tupac Shakur Hologram

[aasjb4ever]

Posted: 4/17/12 at 7:29pm

Would we get to see this hologram interspersed with a new production with current actors? In that case, I’d love to see the Pone do Master Class with Audra McDonald, I really enjoyed the revival but I often wonder about seeing the original production.

Or they could both perform it in my basement, which is host to my local community theatre. #Galatime

[Proper Villain]

Posted: 4/17/12 at 7:42pm

It's a giant leap forward from where the technology was 6 years ago, it's technology that would've been fantastic (for special effects) in something like Spider-Man:Turn off the Dark. But, $400g for a short set list... the 'Pac footage (which was incredibly lit!) seemed a bit like Natalie Cole singing with her dad.

I really liked the Gorillaz Grammy set from '06... an animated cartoon band with the actual band performing live behind the holograms, it made sense. But, we go to theatre to see live performances.

[temms]

Posted: 4/17/12 at 7:52pm

Wow - obviously I had the exact thought at the exact same time because I posted a thread with that same topic. Didn't see this one when I finally hit "post". I'll just paste that here and delete the other one.

******

This technology isn't new, there's already a Japanese anime character who performs live concerts, with a live band and all, but "she" is a 3D light projection. Here's a clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DTXO7KGHtjI

Now, admittedly, this technology is in its infancy. It's not actual 3D imaging yet, it's an optical illusion accomplished by projecting the image onto a specially treated seemingly-clear screen.

But it's going to get better. There's also increasingly sophisticated animatronics/robotics which could also be used in stage productions. If you had gone to the opening night of "Oklahoma" in 1943 and told the patrons that within 50 years machines would be able to completely replace orchestras, they would say you were nuts. They would say that even if such a thing was possible (remember, this was the era of AM radio and 78-RPM discs) no one would ever use it because it wouldn't be live and isn't that what separates the theatre from film and black-and-white television?

Obviously, those people would have been dead wrong. So I'm saying, how long until holograms or sophisticated animatronics start replacing ensemble members, the way synthesizers and Virtual Orchestras have replaced string sections and even entire orchestras? A producer could do a show with 250 people in the chorus - and they can mostly, if not all, be virtual. Obviously you'll need people to choreograph, and probably dancers to "record" the dances using motion capture devices that transfer the movements to the light projections or the robots. No mistakes, no injuries, no salaries to pay, no performer egos to deal with, it's a win-win-win!

So - how long until the first Virtual Ensemble in a Broadway show? I can already write the articles - half of them will be touting the new technology, and the other half will note that this further erodes the "live" experience.

But I don't say this as a science fiction, what-if scenario. This will happen. The technology already exists, it just needs to improve. I'd bet that within 10 years it will be possible, just prohibitively expensive. Eventually, special events will start using it - I'll bet theme parks and museums will be the first to use them. I'd guess that within 25 years it will be completely possible to seamlessly integrate Virtual Performers with live actors the same way we do with orchestras today.

Thoughts?

[aasjb4ever]

Posted: 4/17/12 at 8:02pm

So. Much. Information. And. Knowledge. Can. Not. Process!

Updated On: 4/17/12 at 08:02 PM

[ucjrdude902]

Posted: 4/17/12 at 8:34pm

What would be cool is in this new Broadway extravaganza that is coming to the Time Square Theatre they have a hologram of Ethel doing "Roses Turn" or maybe some other original iconic performers.

[FindingNamo]

Posted: 4/17/12 at 10:36pm

Sarah Bernhardt.

[broadwaydevil]

Posted: 4/17/12 at 10:43pm

I find all of this incredibly creepy. A hologram of a dead person seems even scarier. I couldn't be paid enough money to see a hologram on stage.

[hyperbole_and_a_half]

Posted: 4/17/12 at 10:44pm

Dear God I hope it doesn't catch on. We've already had projections replace competent scenic design, do we really need projections to replace performers, too?

Besides, the technology isn't really "new" at all, except for the super-realistic CGI part. It's called the Pepper's Ghost illusion and it's been around since the mid 1800s. I was in a production of Secret Garden that used it extensively for the "Dreamers" (i.e. ghosts), and we spent what felt like years teching that beast, and the huge glass walls greatly restricted movement on stage and were frankly dangerously invisible during scene shifts.

TRUE holograms, or 3D images projected into 3D space, might be interesting as a novelty, but are decades away (they haven't even been done on a small scale yet). More importantly, I go to live theatre to see live theatre; if all of this stuff is pre programmed and recorded ahead of time, at what point do I just stay home and watch a movie instead?

[CandiceElyse]

Posted: 4/17/12 at 11:04pm

i dont think holograms will/should ever replace live performers, but i do think itd be awesome to have some sort of show featuring the greats as holograms...merman is of course the obvious first that comes to mind, and id personally love some gene kelly thrown in there. its definitely a very interesting concept to play with!

[darquegk]

Posted: 4/17/12 at 11:09pm

You guys are only hitting the tip of the iceberg for the opportunities here- you're using "bring back the dead" or "replacing a performer" as the only real option for what these are going to be able to do.

Someone mentioned a virtual ensemble, but look at the effect used in Michael Jackson's "This Is It-" eight dancers become a hundred thousand with special effects.

Or, for those of you who saw the Family Guy number at the Emmys a few years back, imagine Seth McFarlane up onstage singing a duet with Stewie Griffin live.

A Jekyll and Hyde "Confrontation" without a body double or the notoriously camp "hair flip" effect.

Or something akin to the special effect used on one actor to create the two mostly-identicle Winkelvoss Twins in The Social Network.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 4/18/12 at 12:28am

Wasn't there a hologram projection of sorts of Laurence Olivier for the UK musical Time? (Which just sounds completely awful, but I swear I am not making this up).

[finebydesign]

Posted: 4/18/12 at 11:10am

Firstly this "hologram" isn't all that big a leap and it's tech and it's not a hologram. It's a very old magic mirror trick that has been used on stage for years.

Real holograms are a long way off as hyperbole_and_a_half. That said what is impressive is the computer power implemented in constructing the CGI image of Tupac. Most Broadway shows could not afford the technology to render a character like this as it is very expensive.

I did not see Shrek but I understand they used some kind of CGI puppet thing, that could certainly be utilized here, but it's not new.

Again as pointed out here, projections came into vogue but really got played out. We'll see CGI characters come and go, if it helps the story why not? There are certainly ways to make it live.
How it was done. SPOILER, you'll see strings!

[Calvin]

Posted: 4/18/12 at 11:25am

Meanwhile, have you seen the line-up for Coachella 2013?
Can't wait for the Patsy Cline/Pantera duet!

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 4/18/12 at 12:56pm

This technology was also utilized (briefly) in London's production of Lord of the Rings to great effect. When I saw it on stage, it was quite the "How did they DO that?" moment for me. The gasp from the audience indicated it wasn't just me that was fooled.

[sbflyfan]

Posted: 4/18/12 at 1:08pm

Sarah Brightman based her entire 2008 tour around this "Musion" technology.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3ILu7dsp8YM

[exedore]

Posted: 4/18/12 at 7:14pm

The Olivier effect in TIME wasn't a hologram. It was a rather large 3D model of Olivier's head stuffed full of robotics and synced up with a trio of 35mm film projectors. It was groundbreaking then and when done properly still *can* be incredible.

Those wishing to see smaller, simpler (and cheaper/not as good) versions can see them in London at the RAF Museum Colindale (the Churchill 'Our Finest Hour' speech model in the Battle of Britain Hall) and the Guide in the second room of the Dr Who Experience (before you board the TARDIS).

Lord of the Rings....I want to say was just a combination of projections and clever lighting, not an actual 3D image.

[EricMontreal22]

Posted: 4/18/12 at 7:20pm

Thanks for the clarrification. So essentially this is just an elaborate version of the centuries old "Pepper's ghost" effect right? Which I only know about because they use it a lot in Disneyland's Haunted Mansion (s they do actually film projections on moving mannequins like as described with Olivier). I remember as a kid everyone said they used holograms too--but I'm glad for the clarrification.

[exedore]

Posted: 4/18/12 at 7:32pm

Exact same principle but on a MUCH bigger scale - the Olivier head was around 14 feet high and made by an aircraft simulator company. The robotics were controlled by timecode on the films and synched via computer. There are a couple TV clips on Youtube and you can get an idea of how incredible it was - even the cast and crew still rave about it.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 4/19/12 at 11:31am

A Jekyll and Hyde "Confrontation" without a body double or the notoriously camp "hair flip" effect.

That was actually done in the two pre-Broadway tours using a projection and it was fantastic.