Broadway League: Grosses will not be reported this season

[jacobsnchz14]

Posted: 8/9/21 at 5:18pm

https://build.broadwaynews.com/2021/08/09/broadway-shows-will-not-report-grosses-this-season/

Broadway shows will not publicly report grosses for the 2021-2022 season, the Broadway League said Monday. 

In an email sent to members, the League said the decision was made “based on many factors,” but includes the “staggered roll-out of returning and new productions, and anticipated variations in performance schedules.” This means the season’s grosses could not be easily compared to past seasons.

The League plans to report grosses for the 2022-2023 Broadway season, according to the email. The Broadway League did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

[binau]

Posted: 8/9/21 at 5:26pm

A shame as it would help us quickly understand how well Broadway is bouncing back (or not). I kind of wonder if the real purpose is they don’t want bad publicity if things aren’t going well (and in fact I wonder if this is a bad sign re: current advances).

[JBroadway]

Posted: 8/9/21 at 5:31pm

Really strange decision. I don't like it. Is this purely a marketing thing? Seems like it, based on the comment about "comparing to past seasons." The reporting/interpreting of Broadway grosses has always had to contend with a huge number of variables. There are holiday weeks, weeks with hurricanes. Or more extreme cases like the weeks/months following 9/11. There are shows that are waiting for Tony nominations, shows that need time to find their audience, etc.

Every week we discuss/speculate about what these variables are that lead to unexpected changes in grosses. And this time, no one will even have to wonder why things are different. Anyone who cares to look at the grosses already knows that they will be subject to post-COVID struggles, and we all sympathize with them. So who is this decision for? It strikes me as sneaky and misguided. 

[EDSOSLO858]

Posted: 8/9/21 at 5:36pm

Looks like they sense big, big trouble sales wise... analyzing weekly grosses is one of the major ways we can tell if a given show can survive in the long run or not. 

Some shows will close in the dreary winter months - there's no denying that - but early 2022's victims (not including limited engagements) may just surprise us without these telling figures.

Updated On: 8/9/21 at 05:36 PM

[Hairspray0901]

Posted: 8/9/21 at 5:38pm

What a strange decision.

I wonder if there’s something in place behind the scenes to give producers a break in terms of paying rent or something of the sort if they don’t make X amount of money.

[everythingtaboo]

Posted: 8/9/21 at 5:40pm

I wish it wasn't the whole season, but I'm actually okay with this decision. The shows are going to be taking overall mammoth losses for the first few months, maybe even more than we realize, and they don't need industry-watchers like us trying to analyze the grosses to the point of guessing their fates before they've even had a chance to get on their feet again. 

[jo]

Posted: 8/9/21 at 5:45pm

Does this mean a show may not publicize its grosses ( say, for a month) if it has healthy box office figures?

[Theater3232]

Posted: 8/9/21 at 5:48pm

We will then have to sadly assume that all the empty seats from future seating maps will mean $0 unsold seats (such as from Pass Over, that looks about 90% unsold from seating maps).  I think they know they're in big trouble and they're trying to hide it.

[LightsOut90]

Posted: 8/9/21 at 5:50pm

the utter lack of transparency is a major red flag

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/9/21 at 6:07pm

This is not news; this has been known publicly for quite a while. It's not strange; it's lily livered and naive. And it won't work. Anyone who knows the history of reporting grosses will immediately spot the problem: if you don't report, you don't control the narrative, and if you don't control the narrative, gossip replaces facts and context. Once you realize that the grosses are not a "secret" because lots of people have a contractual right to receiving them (and being paid based on them no less), you also realize that any grosses that are notable - and that obviously includes shows that are bleeding money - will find their way onto this very board as well as the papers, blogs, websites, etc. Stupid idea. I bet tickets to the show with the lowest grosses percentage that the league does not make it to the end of 21-22 before they resume releasing the numbers.

[JBroadway]

Posted: 8/9/21 at 6:09pm

everythingtaboo said: "I wish it wasn't the whole season, but I'm actually okay with this decision. The shows are going to be taking overall mammoth losses for the first few months, maybe even more than we realize, and they don't need industry-watchers like us trying to analyze the grossesto the point of guessing their fates before they've even had a chance to get on their feet again."


 

By that logic, they should stop reporting grosses forever. No struggling show benefits from people on a message board discussing analyzing their underperformance. But they report the grosses anyway, and we discuss them, because it provides clarity and insight into the process. I’ve learned so much about the business of Broadway from reading and participating in the weekly gross threads. And I value that education really highly. Plus, it can help theatre fans make informed decisions about ticket availability, and prioritizing shows based on how long they’re expected to keep running. 

Yes these are extreme circumstances, but again, anybody who knows or cares about Broadway will account for the circumstances in their reading of the grosses. We on Broadwayworld can be pretty nasty at times, but we’re not so stupid as to take the grosses at face value as if nothing has happened in the past year+. 

The term for this is “toxic positivity,” and the Broadway community is notorious for running rampant with it. This seems to be yet another example of it. 

[ACL2006]

Posted: 8/9/21 at 7:10pm

Never understood why the public need to know these?

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 8/9/21 at 7:33pm

ACL2006 said: "Never understood why the public need to know these?"

Because it's relevant? Like the above have said. A show that is making a good gross consistently is a much safer bet to get tickets for 6 months down the road when out of towners have to account for travel and accomodations. There is far more value in knowing THESE grosses than the public has to glean from Movie Grosses or even TV Ratings. It's actual tangible information that is going to your future decisions.

Updated On: 8/9/21 at 07:33 PM

[Sutton Ross]

Posted: 8/9/21 at 7:43pm

Man, what will BWW report every Monday? This sucks and seems kinda shady. 

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/9/21 at 7:58pm

ACL2006 said: "Never understood why the public need to know these?"

In addition to the perspective theatrefan4 shares, Broadway is a huge industry and like all other huge industries the public is interested in its finances. This is of course true across the entertainment genres (movies, records, books, etc.) as well as other industries. You don't have to be interested but many are, both as fans and also as stakeholders. 

[Theatrefanboy1]

Posted: 8/9/21 at 10:17pm

So, I'm just going off of what some people involved behind the scenes have said to me about ticket sales. Apparently, sales in general are very good for the shows reopening for the first month or some (because a lot are in fact based in New York). They do build up in the end of November (through the general holiday period) but really flat line in the New Year, which has been to be expected, but its magnified. Producers are worried about the implications (apparently from some data they are analyzing and looking to close down a handful of big time long runners in that time). As for new shows, unfortunately they are looking at it right now that with all the shows reopening so quickly after each other and the real tourist crowds not even projected to reach 2019 levels for another 2 years, a lot of the new shows will not make it past the 3 month/100 show mark. And right now they are behind the scenes very nervous about that. 

 

Though they also did confirm to expect a number of "surprise " revivals in the next 18 months with shows bringing in their former tour sets and costumes, with a stunt cast.   (I have my hopes on a Dolly reprise)

 

Anyway that's what I was told the other day

[EDSOSLO858]

Posted: 8/9/21 at 10:37pm

So most of Broadway’s tenants, currently set to reopen thru the fall, will drop dead come January, and the industry will revive over the next year-plus by becoming Stunt City? Is that what you’re saying?

[everythingtaboo]

Posted: 8/9/21 at 11:05pm

JBroadway said: "everythingtaboo said: "I wish it wasn't the whole season, but I'm actually okay with this decision. The shows are going to be taking overall mammoth losses for the first few months, maybe even more than we realize, and they don't need industry-watchers like us trying to analyze the grossesto the point of guessing their fates before they've even had a chance to get on their feet again."




By that logic, they should stop reporting grosses forever. No struggling show benefitsfrom people on a message board discussing analyzingtheir underperformance. But they report the grosses anyway, and we discuss them, because it provides clarity and insight into the process. I’ve learned so much about the business of Broadway from reading and participating in the weekly grossthreads. And I value that education really highly. Plus, it can help theatre fans make informed decisions about ticket availability, and prioritizing shows based on how long they’re expected to keep running.

Yes these are extreme circumstances, but again, anybody who knows or cares about Broadway will account for the circumstances in their reading of the grosses. We on Broadwayworld can be pretty nasty at times, but we’re not so stupid as to take the grosses at face value as if nothing has happened in the past year+.

The term for this is “toxic positivity,” and the Broadway community is notorious for running rampant with it. This seems to be yet another example of it."

Firstly, I literally said I wish it wasn't even the whole season they're doing this. Secondly, unless the producers are fully transparent with all the additional funds they'll be pouring into the shows to cover the costs of restarting and running at a loss, not to mention the cost of additional Covid protocols throughout, I just don't think we'll ever have a real idea how these shows will be making any money in the initial months. That's why I don't think we'll really have any idea of how to "forecast" anything until all the shows are finally running again and are closer to having their feet steady on the ground.

[ErmengardeStopSniveling]

Posted: 8/9/21 at 11:40pm

This is so idiotic, but as Hogan says there are 100+ people per show who get wrap reports. All it will take is one person forwarding a Monday morning email to Broadway Briefing or Philip Boroff or whoever and at least the totals will be published (without the nuance of gross potential, etc. so there will be guesswork for the 10 of us who care)

[saxpower]

Posted: 8/10/21 at 12:07am

With respect to the new year, would shows (excepting Hamilton) normally be well-sold this far in advance?  Even if the advance sales are lower than normal, if things go well with COVID (employer mandated vaccines should increase the vaccine rate, and hopefully the infection rate will go down), people may be more comfortable going to theaters by the time we get near the new year.

As to not releasing the data, I'm in favor of whichever approach keeps shows open.  Releasing data about slow sales may be fatal to a show which otherwise could have made it a little longer (those that have repaid initial investment, know they have higher sales in the spring/summer, etc.).  Admittedly, having NO information can lead to rumors, which can be worse.  I don't know enough about the business angle to know what the best plan is- but if not having grosses for  little while keeps some shows open a little longer, then I'm fine with it. 

 

[bear88]

Posted: 8/10/21 at 12:17am

I am no insider, but this just seems like a recipe for leaks and negative gossip. Broadway box office numbers are really only of interest to theater folk. Everyone will understand if things are grim for a while. But telling people, ‘It’s a secret,’ is going to make the actual information more valuable, especially if the news is that a venerable long-running show or a hyped newcomer is struggling.

On the other side, what if a show is doing better than expected? Will everyone involved in that production keep it to themselves?

[JBroadway]

Posted: 8/10/21 at 12:23am

^SaxPower - I would agree with that results-based line of logic, except I can’t figure how this change will actually help shows stay open. I really don’t think anyone, or hardly anyone, would ever decide NOT to see a show simply because the grosses were low. Maybe some non-theatre people (tourists or locals) would be wary of shows with low numbers, because they’d be more inclined to shy away from something that seemed like a flop. But they probably wouldn’t know to check grosses, and probably wouldn’t know how to interpret them if they did.

Meanwhile, dedicated Broadway fans know that plenty of good shows make no money, and vice versa.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 8/10/21 at 12:38am

I doubt there has ever been a show for which the poor box office has been a game changer. For one thing, only a tiny group of people even know that grosses are published. For another, a show that is doing so badly that it would be meaningful is never going to have a sea change brought about by the absence of data about how bad things are. It just doesn't make sense. Also, as rehearsed, the grosses are not and cannot be a secret: too many people get the info. Ever so slightly more rational is that if shows across the board are doing poorly (with a few exceptions), that will look bad for the industry. I suspect that's what the naive fools at the League are thinking, but again it makes no sense. If Broadway is tanking, EVERYONE's gonna know it. And as also rehearsed below, people go to shows they want to see, not shows that are making their nut. That's just silly.

 

[bear88]

Posted: 8/10/21 at 4:44am

In San Francisco, there’s no equivalent of reporting the weekly grosses publicly. Or if there is, I don’t know about it. But anyone looking for seats to a show - even a random ticket buyer like me - has a pretty good idea of what’s selling and what isn’t.

I know Hamilton, opening tonight, is selling very well. I know it was easy to get front row loge seats to a play I saw on Friday - which probably wouldn’t have happened before the pandemic.

But aside from factoring that into my ticket buying plans, I don’t really care. I realize that producers will want everyone to think their show is a big hit, for obvious reasons. I realize Broadway, in general, doesn’t want to release a bunch of grim numbers each week.

But if I can figure out how a show is selling just from looking at a seating chart in my computer, it won’t be difficult for anyone in the industry, with access to the numbers, to figure it out too.

Word will get out. If a long-running Broadway institution like Phantom of the Opera is playing to rows of empty seats every night, people will talk. Same with a hyped new show like Six or a famous revival like Company. And even the league somehow keeps everyone quiet, closing notices are a dead giveaway.

I sympathize with the decision. I just don’t think it will fool anyone and might backfire. Some information and gossip always fills an information void. And it does a disservice to shows that manage to find an audience despite everything. Plus, there will be less information showing improvement, whenever that happens.

Updated On: 8/10/21 at 04:44 AM

[ACL2006]

Posted: 8/10/21 at 9:07am

The average Bway theatergoer doesn't check the grosses in order to buy tickets in advance. Just seems like some people here seem to get off on speculating about a show's grosses just to guess when it'll be closing.