Did Stephen Oremus Write the 9 to 5 Score with Dolly Parton?

[Mildred Plotka]

Posted: 1/23/11 at 9:56pm

And go uncredited? Just curious... I've been a huge fan of Parton's for many many years and much of that score is unlike anything in her songbook. No shame in it, just curious if he was instrumental in the sound or if he in fact, wrote parts of it with her.

[newintown]

Posted: 1/24/11 at 9:48am

The official word is Dolly wrote the full score. But I agree with your observations; it's pretty clear that Oremus was to Dolly what Glen Kelly and Patrick Brady were (pretty much) to Mel Brooks. Dolly is obviously more of a musician that Brooks, but her metier is not and never was theatre music.

[Brick]

Posted: 1/24/11 at 11:52am

I've always assumed the orchestrations and vocal arrangements were greatly expanded from song she probably wrote on guitar. But as newintown said, Dolly is a consummate musician and I'm sure she did write these songs, as opposed to Brooks humming them for the orchestrator to notate and realize.

I would love to hear some of the demos of songs like "Get Out And Stay Out" with only Dolly and a guitar.

[ClapYo'Hands]

Posted: 1/24/11 at 12:19pm

Does anybody else know of any other examples of composers who literally just hum the tune and let orchestrators do the legwork?

[PitPro2004]

Posted: 1/24/11 at 2:35pm

Does anybody else know of any other examples of composers who literally just hum the tune and let orchestrators do the legwork?

John Williams ?

I have no proof but I am told by some of those in the union, he sits at the piano and comes up with these amazing melody lines for Spielberg but does little else after he's gotten them on paper. Doesn't orchestrate his own?

BTW...I know Stephen Oremus, we worked together years ago and he went to Berklee for film scoring believe it or not. He's very funny in person and a terrific talent.

Read more: https://forum.broadwayworld.com/readmessagemodern.cfm?thread=1027215&m=4110686&boardid=1#ixzz1Bz0anBpn

[newintown]

Posted: 1/24/11 at 2:46pm

That's difficult to believe about Williams, who has been arranging, orchestrating, and composing film and concert music for more than 50 years...

[emo_geek]

Posted: 1/24/11 at 3:02pm

There are demos of Dolly singing songs such as Get out and Stay out and Shine Like the Sun. Easily available on the internet, I have and play them on my ipod all the time. She even sings some cut songs like Tattletale. They have a more Dolly orchestration and she sings them wonderfully. It lets you see how they evolved from when she was writing them, to Los Angeles (which I saw multiple times) and to Broadway. Though she may have gotten help, I think she did most of the work. She has interviews explaining how she wrote the songs, and how she would go to her Cabin and write the songs, pretending to be each character. She stated she had the most fun writing Mr. Hart's songs because she liked pretending to be him.

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 1/24/11 at 3:21pm

Gee, I wish I could hear that, too, hint, hint!

[ClapYo'Hands]

Posted: 1/24/11 at 3:54pm

I find that hard to believe about John Williams - I mean he was the "ARRANGER and ORCHESTRATOR" for the movie of Fiddler on the Roof.

[jv92]

Posted: 1/24/11 at 4:26pm

I think John Williams is a well-trained musician, arranger, orchestrator, composer, etc. That industry person's info could be true. Who knows? But in all honesty, I think it's untrue.

As for other "hummers" (not the explicit kind, but that is indeed the word arrangers used for untrained musicians or non-pianists)- Don't forget that Irving Berlin could not read or write music and played piano in only one key. Bob Merrill composed on a toy xylophone, though I think that he may have advanced to the piano by the time of Carnival!. I could be wrong though. Jerry Herman is a wonderful pianist and composer, but he does not read or write music to my knowledge. He may have learned slightly later on. Harvey Schmidt, composer of The Fantasticks and other shows, also only plays and does not read or write music.

[Almira]

Posted: 1/24/11 at 4:56pm

Not an example of a theatre composer, but film actor/director/producer and all-around genius Charlie Chaplin couldn't write or read music and "hummed" his compositons. Using this method wrote the scores to all of his sound films and added scores to his silent films.

His music is lovely, sentimental, funny and powerful.

The song SMILE was gleened from a theme he wrote/hummed for the his film MODERN TIMES.

[PitPro2004]

Posted: 1/24/11 at 6:28pm

"I think John Williams is a well-trained musician, arranger, orchestrator, composer, etc."

Oh, I agree, I never meant to infer that he can't or doesn't know how to score, arrange, orchestrate and so on. It's just that in the past two decades, he's a rather huge in demand musician and I have heard that he'll score a movie on piano and then hand it off to his right hand people to create parts and stuff. Didn't mean to mislead.

Read more: https://forum.broadwayworld.com/readmessage.php?thread=1027215&dt=10&boardid=1#ixzz1BzwHokA7

[darquegk]

Posted: 1/24/11 at 6:34pm

Danny Elfman was a hummer for most of his early scoring career, but an extremely detailed one- though he could not read or write music, he would hum or play on guitar or violin EVERY instrument part for his orchestrations, and Steve Bartek would transcribe them and make sure they were playable on all instruments.

If you want an interesting look at what Dolly's process is apparently like, take a listen to Elton John's "Aida" demos. If you like Elton John, you'll like the demos, but he writes in a very recognizable Elton John style (at least at that point in his career), which was then edited and adapted a lot for the stage.

[PitPro2004]

Posted: 1/24/11 at 6:37pm

Yanni is another one, self taught, cannot read or write music, but composes in his own special notation.

[ClapYo'Hands]

Posted: 1/24/11 at 7:13pm

Ahh, forgive me PitPro2004, I know what you mean now! And yes, I've heard this too!

[darquegk]

Posted: 1/24/11 at 9:45pm

Also notable- Duncan Sheik's demos for "Spring Awakening" are practically an album in themselves- fully produced, complete with overdubs and some memorable and tasteful uses of Autotune- not to correct a faulty voice, but to create that signature otherworldly sound.

Stripped of Tom Kitt's orchestrations, the songs sound remarkably the same as they already did. I wish they'd release the Sheik "Spring Awakening" album in stores, as it's a great companion to the cast album. I listen to it more often than the cast version.

The only low point is the original version of Totally F*CKed, which is done as a Bob Dylan style ballad with harmonica. Funny and entertaining, but it definitely lacks the spark of the later version.

[zamedy]

Posted: 1/24/11 at 9:59pm

Dolly is truly a musical genius. As famous as she is, I don't think most people know that she has literally written hundreds of songs, including (I believe) everyone of her songs that have become smash hits. Just incredible. I marvel at her musical talents.

[eatlasagna]

Posted: 1/25/11 at 2:55am

just wondering... if you know a composer only knows how to hum a tune and not really write and arrange and all that stuff... does that lessen your view of their talent?

[dramarama3]

Posted: 1/25/11 at 4:53am

^ It probably shouldn't, but it definitely does for me.

[newintown]

Posted: 1/25/11 at 8:56am

It does for me. I was even disillusioned when I discovered Sondheim didn't orchestrate (and wasn't particularly interested in orchestration). Arrangement/orchestration are easily 1/3-1/2 of the composing process. It's not just about the melody. Anyone can make up a melody.

[leefowler]

Posted: 1/25/11 at 9:00am

Irving Berlin wrote some of the world's greatest songs with very little technical ability, working with people who would transcribe and notate his music. Maybe anyone can write a melody, but not everyone can write a great melody.

[newintown]

Posted: 1/25/11 at 9:09am

Perhaps true, but then there's no way of knowing what part of the melody came out of him and what part was "helped along" by his team. With illiterate composers, it's rarely just a question of simple transcribing.

There have been more than one composer who turned in their work, had it heavily altered by their arranger(s), yet who retain sole (illusory) credit for "writing" the song.

[kdogg36]

Posted: 1/25/11 at 11:42am

Well, I think Sondheim does a lot more than make up the melody. I can't remember the source, but I know in an older biography it discusses this. If I recall correctly, he writes out all the harmony and counterpoint, with some indication of instrumentation as well.

And I know a lot of people here will know more about this than I do, but it's my impression that being both composer (and lyricist, as the case may be) and orchestrator becomes a very difficult proposition when songs are being feverishly written and rewritten during rehearsal and previews, just in terms of there being only so many hours in the day. So having a dedicated orchestrator makes sense, even if the composer has the technical know-how to do it. (Note that Tom Kitt, who clearly knows how to do the job, had Michael Starobin as a co-orchestrator for Next To Normal.)

[ClapYo'Hands]

Posted: 1/25/11 at 12:04pm

I agree with the above. Lionel Bart was the same.

And then you have those composers who can do it all! Andrew Lloyd-Webber also orchestrates his material of course, and he's literally involved of every aspect of his score.

[newintown]

Posted: 1/25/11 at 12:04pm

I hope I didn't make myself misunderstood - I still think Sondheim is our best living musical theatre songwriter/composer/lyricist (followed by Mary Yeston, and further along by William Finn). I know he's highly trained, musically literate, and considers instrumental voices when he writes. But he has said on several occasions that he's not particularly interested in orchestrating his own work.