Does being in a show a long time help or hurt a career?
#2
Posted: 8/28/13 at 9:50pm
It's a steady paycheck.
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#3
Posted: 8/28/13 at 9:52pm
I have a friend who has hopped from one long-running show to another (usually joining soon after the original cast) and he says it's important to be seen by casting directors every season. He says actors like the ensemble of Chicago should not stay in a show that long and expect to get cast again in another show. Just his opinion as a Broadway performer.
#4
Posted: 8/28/13 at 11:05pm
^ Interesting point! I wouldn't see a reason to not audition for shows anyways if you are working in the ensemble of a long running show of Chicago. There's no harm in not getting the job, so if it were me, I would go out for a lot of things time permitting.
#5
Posted: 8/28/13 at 11:18pm
well this depends on what you mean by hurting ones career. it is something that is really specific for each performer.
Look at some of the performers who were in Miss Saigon the entire run. Broadway/Entertainment industry has a terrible problem of under representing great asian and asian american talent. So to have been in Miss Saigon that entire run or close to it was probably the greatest career move ever.
Also for a dancer to be in Chicago for a long run is probably wonderful. Dancing and acting is more important than the singing in that show. so if you are a wonderful dancer, whats not to love about being in that production.
Now if you like you are not being challenged or want something else you should audition and look for other work when you are feeling restless in any job.
Look at some of the performers who were in Miss Saigon the entire run. Broadway/Entertainment industry has a terrible problem of under representing great asian and asian american talent. So to have been in Miss Saigon that entire run or close to it was probably the greatest career move ever.
Also for a dancer to be in Chicago for a long run is probably wonderful. Dancing and acting is more important than the singing in that show. so if you are a wonderful dancer, whats not to love about being in that production.
Now if you like you are not being challenged or want something else you should audition and look for other work when you are feeling restless in any job.
#6
Posted: 8/28/13 at 11:29pm
The only former (recent)"Chicago" ensemble member(that I know of) who is in a current Broadway show is Peter Nelson (Cinderella ensemble member).
"Noel [Coward] and I were in Paris once. Adjoining rooms, of course. One night, I felt mischievous, so I knocked on Noel's door, and he asked, 'Who is it?' I lowered my voice and said 'Hotel detective. Have you got a gentleman in your room?' He answered, 'Just a minute, I'll ask him.'" (Beatrice Lillie)
#7
Posted: 8/28/13 at 11:50pm
Similar to this, I've noticed that a nice amount of women who go into Wicked don't seem to find much other work. I've always been intrigued by that.
#8
Posted: 8/29/13 at 12:14am
Eh, most of them end up doing regional theater work. And most do end up coming back and reprising the role (Elphaba) in some production.
Personally, I think it can go either way. A lot of performers in hit shows (like WICKED, Lion King, POTO, ect.) know that they have it made. They are going to be in a show that will pack in the crowds in on a regular basis, and make a steady paycheck. In the end, if they stay with the show a LOONG time, it can hurt them. Others though (Such as Willemijn Verkaik) are very talented and can obviously do a lot in their career, but wish to stay with a part because they love it so much.
Personally, I think it can go either way. A lot of performers in hit shows (like WICKED, Lion King, POTO, ect.) know that they have it made. They are going to be in a show that will pack in the crowds in on a regular basis, and make a steady paycheck. In the end, if they stay with the show a LOONG time, it can hurt them. Others though (Such as Willemijn Verkaik) are very talented and can obviously do a lot in their career, but wish to stay with a part because they love it so much.
"Life in theater is give and take...but you need to be ready to give more then you take..."
#9
Posted: 8/29/13 at 3:48am
I think Leila Martin spent over 10 years as Madame Giry in THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA and ended up retiring very wealthy on the money she made.
#10
Posted: 8/29/13 at 4:53am
I wonder that too, especially on the example of Willemijn. She will be soon in Wicked for 6 years, but it seems to help her career. I think it depends how big or in her case small the musical community is, in Germany or Holland it´s quiete small and being with such a big producion for such a long time, makes her popular ^^ and helps her to find jobs, for example her 2 months run in Mamma Mia, while the first lead has vacation, they could used the standby but they wanted Willemijn, cause in our small country she is quite a "star" and kinda well-known in the musical community.
On Broadway it´s different I think, cause there is so much competition. Donna Vivino for example, she is for such a long time the standby in Wicked, I wonder why? Is she content with that, or doesn´t she find other jobs?
On Broadway it´s different I think, cause there is so much competition. Donna Vivino for example, she is for such a long time the standby in Wicked, I wonder why? Is she content with that, or doesn´t she find other jobs?
#11
Posted: 8/29/13 at 6:07am
i think there is a fine line. Producers like loyalty, but if you stay too long, it does make people question why no one else wanted you.
WHERE is that line? I would think anywhere between 18 months to two years. I think many would understand extending a contract into and through a 2nd year because the experience has been wonderful.
Most actors, particularly those looking beyond chorus parts, are constantly auditioning, doing workshops, readings. It's smart to always be thinking of what's next.
WHERE is that line? I would think anywhere between 18 months to two years. I think many would understand extending a contract into and through a 2nd year because the experience has been wonderful.
Most actors, particularly those looking beyond chorus parts, are constantly auditioning, doing workshops, readings. It's smart to always be thinking of what's next.
If we're not having fun, then why are we doing it?
These are DISCUSSION boards, not mutual admiration boards. Discussion only occurs when we are willing to hear what others are thinking, regardless of whether it is alignment to our own thoughts.
#12
Posted: 8/29/13 at 6:21am
"I think Leila Martin spent over 10 years as Madame Giry in THE PHANTOM OF THE OPERA and ended up retiring very wealthy on the money she made."
According to this article, George Lee Andrews holds the Guinness Book of World Records title for most performances with a single show. He was also in Phantom of the Opera - as Monsieur André - and was a member of the original cast. He played the role for 23 years and 9,382 performances. I'm sure he would've gone longer, as the article states his contract wasn't renewed (after having been 40 times). Impressive.
http://theater.nytimes.com/2011/09/01/theater/george-lee-andrews-to-leave-phantom-after-23-years.html
According to this article, George Lee Andrews holds the Guinness Book of World Records title for most performances with a single show. He was also in Phantom of the Opera - as Monsieur André - and was a member of the original cast. He played the role for 23 years and 9,382 performances. I'm sure he would've gone longer, as the article states his contract wasn't renewed (after having been 40 times). Impressive.
http://theater.nytimes.com/2011/09/01/theater/george-lee-andrews-to-leave-phantom-after-23-years.html
"We like to snark around here. Sometimes we actually talk about theater...but we try not to let that get in our way." - dramamama611
Updated On: 8/29/13 at 06:21 AM
#13
Posted: 8/29/13 at 6:37am
And then there's the heartwarming story of Marlene Danielle, who made her Broadway debut in the revival of West Side Story--you can see her dancing as one of the Shark girls with Debbie Allen in the clip of "America" from the Tony Awards--who then was cast in the original Broadway production of Cats.
She stayed in Cats for 18 years, until it went to the Heavyside Layer.
'I've seen so many people who have stellar careers go through such highs and lows. The star does fade, and ultimately it's about how happy you are as a human being.'
NY Times: PUBLIC LIVES; A Cat Now and for 17 Years (Nearly Forever)
She stayed in Cats for 18 years, until it went to the Heavyside Layer.
'I've seen so many people who have stellar careers go through such highs and lows. The star does fade, and ultimately it's about how happy you are as a human being.'
NY Times: PUBLIC LIVES; A Cat Now and for 17 Years (Nearly Forever)
#14
Posted: 8/29/13 at 6:52am
The thing about careers is they aren't all the same, and people don't all want the same thing. For someone whose goal is to find steady employment in the theatre, a long-term gig is the ultimate "good career move." For someone struggling to work their way up the ladder to stardom and/or bigger and better things, a long-term show can feel like a trap. They can also leave their "trap" never to find work again.
The truth is that so few people ever "work their way up the ladder." The reality is also that if no one dared to try it, then no one would ever work their way up the ladder, so as silly and risky as that "stardom" goal sounds, it does pay off for a small few. Others can get beat up by one bad move after another and quit the business.
Theatre careers are all gambles. You go from one job to the next, building in a long string, and suddenly you look back and see a "career" there.
I can tell you one thing that I've heard from several friends: the Broadway community likes to label performers as one thing. If you get known for something, that label can stick, and it's very hard to break out of it.
If you're known for being in one show, that's how they think of you.
If you're known for being a chorus dancer who hops from show to show every few seasons (a friend of mine did six in a row), that's how they think of you.
If you're known for being a good understudy or standby, that's how they think of you. (Another friend was the ingenue's understudy in three shows.)
The hard thing is breaking out of that labeled "mold." You don't always want to understudy the lead. You don't always want to be known as a great "replacement chorus member" or standby or someone who stays in shows for eight or more seasons.
Still that's what happens.
At the same time, work is better than unemployment.
The truth is that so few people ever "work their way up the ladder." The reality is also that if no one dared to try it, then no one would ever work their way up the ladder, so as silly and risky as that "stardom" goal sounds, it does pay off for a small few. Others can get beat up by one bad move after another and quit the business.
Theatre careers are all gambles. You go from one job to the next, building in a long string, and suddenly you look back and see a "career" there.
I can tell you one thing that I've heard from several friends: the Broadway community likes to label performers as one thing. If you get known for something, that label can stick, and it's very hard to break out of it.
If you're known for being in one show, that's how they think of you.
If you're known for being a chorus dancer who hops from show to show every few seasons (a friend of mine did six in a row), that's how they think of you.
If you're known for being a good understudy or standby, that's how they think of you. (Another friend was the ingenue's understudy in three shows.)
The hard thing is breaking out of that labeled "mold." You don't always want to understudy the lead. You don't always want to be known as a great "replacement chorus member" or standby or someone who stays in shows for eight or more seasons.
Still that's what happens.
At the same time, work is better than unemployment.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
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Updated On: 8/29/13 at 06:52 AM
#15
Posted: 8/29/13 at 11:50am
Patti LuPone played Evita for two years. Never heard from her again.
Seriously though, I think it depends on the performer. Being in a long run might cause the performer to phone in the performance. We also don't get to see another interpretation of the role.
Seriously though, I think it depends on the performer. Being in a long run might cause the performer to phone in the performance. We also don't get to see another interpretation of the role.
If anyone ever tells you that you put too much Parmesan cheese on your pasta, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
#16
Posted: 8/29/13 at 11:55am
"She stayed in Cats for 18 years, until it went to the Heavyside Layer."
Didn't one of the other dancers also stay with the show for almost the entire run? I think it was Bonnie Simmons.
Didn't one of the other dancers also stay with the show for almost the entire run? I think it was Bonnie Simmons.
If anyone ever tells you that you put too much Parmesan cheese on your pasta, stop talking to them. You don't need that kind of negativity in your life.
#17
Posted: 8/29/13 at 12:22pm
I remember reading an interview with Larry Kert decades ago, in which he said that staying with West Side Story as long as he did harmed his career. He felt that the people that hire forget your name if they don't hear it regularly, and that they also believe you stay with one show for more than a year only if no one wants you for another job.
I don't know if that's still true today. But it does seem that if you want to be "famous," you've got to originate some roles, get your profile seen - and you don't do that by staying in a show for 10 years; after the first year, only the tourists are paying attention.
There are also pitfalls to the Marlene Danielle/George Lee Andrews approach. Remember when almost the entire cast of Les Miz was let go because Mackintosh thought they were getting stale? I know another gal who was in the chorus of an ultra-long running Broadway show for years, relying upon that regular paycheck, who was let go for basically the same reason.
Building a career as a performer is a task with no guarantees (or even logic, it seems). Many (maybe most) of the people you see on Broadway will eventually move into other careers.
I don't know if that's still true today. But it does seem that if you want to be "famous," you've got to originate some roles, get your profile seen - and you don't do that by staying in a show for 10 years; after the first year, only the tourists are paying attention.
There are also pitfalls to the Marlene Danielle/George Lee Andrews approach. Remember when almost the entire cast of Les Miz was let go because Mackintosh thought they were getting stale? I know another gal who was in the chorus of an ultra-long running Broadway show for years, relying upon that regular paycheck, who was let go for basically the same reason.
Building a career as a performer is a task with no guarantees (or even logic, it seems). Many (maybe most) of the people you see on Broadway will eventually move into other careers.
#18
Posted: 8/29/13 at 12:44pm
Gothampc, Bonnie Simmons left Cats in the early 90s. I was dating someone from the cast at the time.
Hey Dottie!
Did your colleagues enjoy the cake even though your cat decided to sit on it? ~GuyfromGermany
#19
Posted: 8/29/13 at 1:11pm
For some reason the edit function no longer appears for me.
From Bruce Schneider's NY Times article: Making it Work - 15 Lives of "Cats"
"6. BONNIE SIMMONS, Jellylorum.
An original cast member, left in June 1992 after almost 10 years in the show. Fellow cast members believe that she has left show business."
From Bruce Schneider's NY Times article: Making it Work - 15 Lives of "Cats"
"6. BONNIE SIMMONS, Jellylorum.
An original cast member, left in June 1992 after almost 10 years in the show. Fellow cast members believe that she has left show business."
Hey Dottie!
Did your colleagues enjoy the cake even though your cat decided to sit on it? ~GuyfromGermany
#20
Posted: 8/29/13 at 1:27pm
A friend who was in the ensemble of Wicked for several years described it as "golden handcuffs." Well-paying steady work in a show with no signs of ending had a lot going for it, but he felt if he didn't leave when he did, he never would and maybe never could get considered for other parts. He's worked in several shows since then, but the paycheck's been a lot more uncertain. Sometimes great, sometimes not. He felt he made the right decision, but those golden handcuffs were very tempting.
#21
Posted: 8/29/13 at 1:48pm
There are some people who are never going to be above-the-title stars, and they probably view a long run as a good economic opportunity. They're performing, cashing a steady paycheck, and so long as their contracts are being renewed, they have a fair amount of job security. There are some around here, I've noticed, who overly romanticize being a performer, and tend to overlook the fact that it's a job, a livelihood--it's how these people pay their rent, feed their kids, make the car or credit card payment, etc. Everything is a risk, but it should be obvious why some would opt for job security and a long run if it were offered.
"You travel alone because other people are only there to remind you how much that hook hurts that we all bit down on. Wait for that one day we can bite free and get back out there in space where we belong, sail back over water, over skies, into space, the hook finally out of our mouths and we wander back out there in space spawning to other planets never to return hurrah to earth and we'll look back and can't even see these lives here anymore. Only the taste of blood to remind us we ever existed. The earth is small. We're gone. We're dead. We're safe."
-John Guare, Landscape of the Body
#22
Posted: 8/29/13 at 1:51pm
AC-George Lee Andrews really made the last part of your statement clear when he said he paid for his kids' college education with "Phantom". I mean those of us who aren't in the business and merely go to watch probably don't think about how this is their job, livelihood.
#23
Posted: 8/29/13 at 2:06pm
There are so many factors.
Perhaps an actor stays in a show for quite a long time because the producers want them and so they offer a nice raise when each contract is up.
Perhaps an actor becomes bored in one show. They all audition while still in the first show, so the actor leaves the first show when they get the second, without losing much if any, income.
Perhaps an actor stays in a show for quite a long time because the producers want them and so they offer a nice raise when each contract is up.
Perhaps an actor becomes bored in one show. They all audition while still in the first show, so the actor leaves the first show when they get the second, without losing much if any, income.
<-----I'M TOTES ROLLING MY EYES
#24
Posted: 8/29/13 at 2:40pm
obvy it depends on the show and the role. being Christine Daae or Elphaba for a long time is one thing, being Waitress #1 isnt another.
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#25
Posted: 9/1/13 at 10:28am
Eh, most of them end up doing regional theater work.
You say this like it is a bad thing. Broadway definitely has the spotlight on it and is the "Mecca" of American theatre, but it isn't the be all and end all of theatre. Regional work can be just as rewarding, challenging, and lucrative (maybe even more so since you don't have to pay to live in NYC) as Broadway work.
You say this like it is a bad thing. Broadway definitely has the spotlight on it and is the "Mecca" of American theatre, but it isn't the be all and end all of theatre. Regional work can be just as rewarding, challenging, and lucrative (maybe even more so since you don't have to pay to live in NYC) as Broadway work.
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