Equity and Equality on Broadway

[SteveSanders]

Posted: 9/3/25 at 8:42am

In the hopes we might get the Maybe Happy Ending thread back to discussing that show specifically, perhaps those who wish to further discuss the equality and equity in auditions, casting, creative teams et al, might move share those thoughts here.  This may end up being a futile attempt, but hey, I tried.

Below is what I originally posted to the MHE thread in response to some of Seb28's thinking, but doing so was taking that thread further afield, so I deleted it, started this thread, and moved it here.

Equity is not a designation arrived at one-time and then the journey is complete. 

Equity requires constant assessment, attention, and adjustment of its current state to ensure policies and practices, as well as beliefs and behaviors, do not unjustly favor, oppress, discriminate.

History is littered with examples of hard-fought progress being reversed, and one only needs to look to the current news to see the same happening.
 

Updated On: 9/3/25 at 08:42 AM

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 9/3/25 at 8:51am

How about just “the best person for the job gets the job”? And only in cases where it’s factually necessary (like when someone plays BD Wong in the Wayman Wong-penned biopic) does race even get considered?

It’s like that thing in business where you spend three hours emailing to arrange a ten minute meeting. Just do the work without over-planning or over-thinking and everything will fall into place. Constant hypervigilance and micromanagement is going to result in some pretty terrible art and diminished audiences, and then less work available, period.

Just look at the regional theatres that are dying or closed entirely after going woke. Audiences didn’t want it. 

Updated On: 9/3/25 at 08:51 AM

[Seb28]

Posted: 9/3/25 at 10:11am

BorisTomashevsky said: "How about just “the best person for the jobgets the job”? And only in cases where it’s factually necessary (like when someone plays BD Wong in the Wayman Wong-penned biopic) does race even get considered?
 

Constant hypervigilance and micromanagement is going to result in some pretty terrible art and diminished audiences, and then less work available, period."

Well said. That should be all that matters. The problem is that the dazed "woke" mob does not want true equity. That's where the unhealthy idea comes from that we must constantly count and assess. The problem is that all the countings and percentages of work opportunities per race now actually work against them. 

Because now that we have passed the factual, measurable point of equity, now that we've completely shot past the finish line, what is their plan to reverse that, to level it out again so we can have actual equity? For example, in this show with a 90%+ asian cast, why do they not celebrate that but instead go after the last white person with an axe? This is about the amount of work opportunities, not about vanity and role types. Now they are desperately trying to change the narrative. "Equity" must remain a one-way street for them. No matter how skewed the percentages are. Because white. Because revenge. Because hate. They start to scream and attack as soon as "equity" stops becoming a one-way street and tends to grow into real equity, a two-way street. The role in MHE was a good example of that.

Updated On: 9/3/25 at 10:11 AM

[John Adams]

Posted: 9/3/25 at 10:41am

BorisTomashevsky said: "How about just “the best person for the job gets the job”? "

That's admirably optimistic, but it doesn't account for situations of prejudice, or lack of roles specifically written for minority (race, disability, etc.) actors.

Guidelines for inclusivity were established to compensate for situations where actors were unfairly/disproportionately dismissed out-of-hand because of characteristics that have no bearing on their talent.

BorisTomashevsky also said: "Just look at the regional theatres that are dying or closed entirely after going woke. Audiences didn’t want it."

There's no evidence to support that. The two factors most cited as causes for closures are:

1. Inability to financially recover after the COVID pandemic (An estimated 25% to 30% of audiences have not returned since the pandemic shutdowns.)

2. Loss of funding (i.e., the Trump cuts). Charitable giving to theaters has dropped by as much as 40% compared to pre-pandemic levels. Also, the expenses for productions, building maintenance, and wages have increased significantly.

Other factors include:

Business Model Struggles (The traditional subscription model is declining, forcing theaters to rely on less stable single ticket sales.)

Increased Competition from streaming services has made it harder for theaters to attract audiences (which is similarly true for movie theaters). 

 

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 9/3/25 at 10:56am

“lack of roles specifically written for minority (race, disability, etc.) actors”

A lack of roles in relation to what? In relation to the show itself? And what is a minority, and where? Whites are a minority on the planet, so could it be said that Hamilton has a lack of roles written for a minority? 

Or a lack of roles in relation to what else is onstage at that moment? If so, what if a predominantly white show closes, so whites are suddenly not proportionally employed on Broadway? How will that imbalance be addressed? Who will calculate these numbers? Or will it be a “Let’s just eyeball it!” situation?

Apologies for all the question marks, but to me they just indicate the number of holes in the argument. 

Updated On: 9/3/25 at 10:56 AM

[Idiot]

Posted: 9/3/25 at 11:27am

(Great idea, SteveSanders - thanks for doing this.)

I think about this topic a lot.  I agree with points on both sides of the argument.  It's very hard to talk about in this anonymous forum for all the reasons we're all fully aware of, but I think some good can be done here.  

Going underneath the specifics (where most of the fighting happens), I think what chafes me about the equity / equality debate is that a political concern is being injected into a private business and creative realm with all the righteousness of a religious movement and with repellent zealotry and judgement against contrary thought.  It's quite possible that it simply doesn't belong there.  

As a creative myself, the best way to get me to stop listening is to try to mandate what and who I 'should' write stories for.  My writing is sometimes political, but the act of creation is not.  

 

[kdogg36]

Posted: 9/3/25 at 11:29am

Seb, on the other thread I asked you (for a second time):

So, what are you doing again to rectify the fact that white people have been significantly over-represented in every congressional election since 1788?

And this was your non-response:

What a rotten mindset. This is not about revenge. Your desire to kick the last white person out of a Broadway show in a 90%+ asian cast is not "rectifying".

Please answer the question. It's a question about you, not about me. You spend a great deal of time here arguing (dubiously) that white people are under-represented on Broadway. Do you spend equal effort fighting white peoples' perpetual over-representation in a much more important and powerful institution?

[John Adams]

Posted: 9/3/25 at 11:42am

BorisTomashevsky said: "“lack of roles specifically written for minority (race, disability, etc.) actors”

A lack of roles in relation to what? "

The title of the thread is: “Equity and Equality on Broadway”.

Does that help you to find the answers to your own questions, as well as to understand why statements like, “Whites are a minority on the planet” have no bearing on the conversation?

 

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 9/3/25 at 12:02pm

John Adams said: "BorisTomashevsky said: "“lack of roles specifically written for minority (race, disability, etc.) actors”

A lack of roles in relation to what? "

The title of the thread is: “Equity and Equality on Broadway”.

Does that help you to find the answers to your own questions, as well as to understand why statements like, “Whites are a minority on the planet” have no bearing on the conversation?
"

Yes but it still has to be in relation to something. In the other thread people were talking about comparing the number of Asian actors employed on Broadway with the number of Asian actors in New York. Others were talking about the number of Asian actors in the country. 

🎵I still believe (don’t @ me, Wayman!) that keeping an eye on races in your script or your cast or company is the true racism in the industry. 

What’s next? Stopping ticket sales to white people once a certain number have been sold? Of course not. They want their munty, hunty! I sure have never heard complaints about “too many white people in the crowd”. Why doesn’t anyone b!tch about them being the majority race that keeps the industry alive through their patronage and investment? 

[John Adams]

Posted: 9/3/25 at 12:25pm

BorisTomashevsky said: "Why doesn’t anyone b!tch about them being the majority race that keeps the industry alive through their patronage and investment?"

I feel like we just steered into a discussion re: the possible existence of "white privilege". 

EDIT: ...and did you just use the phrase, "majority race"? 

 

Updated On: 9/3/25 at 12:25 PM

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 9/3/25 at 12:25pm

BorisTomashevsky said: "What’s next? Stopping ticket sales to white people once a certain number have been sold? Of course not. They want their munty, hunty! I sure have never heard complaints about “too many white people in the crowd”. Why doesn’t anyone b!tch about them being the majority race that keeps the industry alive through their patronage and investment?"

They... absolutely 100% do. Just because you don't care to engage with this matter in good faith doesn't mean its discussions that aren't happening. Accessibility to underserved audiences is a conversation that happens all of the time, just not one that Broadway Producers are really interested in dealing with because it hurts their bottom line. TDF and TDF Passport are programs specifically designed to bring a broader audiences to the theatre. PAC's 30 under 30 is a means to bring younger people who do not have the funds to pay for full priced tickets. 

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 9/3/25 at 12:33pm

John Adams said: "BorisTomashevsky said: "Why doesn’t anyone b!tch about them being the majority race that keeps the industry alive through their patronage and investment?"

I feel like we just steered into a discussion re: the possible existence of "white privilege".
"

In 2022, the median net worth of Asian households in the US equaled $535,400—close to double that of white households

https://apps.urban.org/features/asian-american-wealth-snapshot/

I’d like to know how many of the complaining Asian actors bought tickets to see Maybe Happy Ending when it needed them most. Because statistically, there’s privilege there.

Can we start getting breakdowns of the races in every audience and make sure it matches with the races on the stage, which should - in theory - match with the races or the city that the venue is located in? That’s my demand. That’s my BD Wong instagram letter to The NY Times. 

 

Editing to add this from a quick Google AI search:

Broadway audiences remain predominantly white, with the percentage being around 67-78% white, depending on the specific report year.

Updated On: 9/3/25 at 12:33 PM

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 9/3/25 at 12:39pm

TheatreFan4 said: "BorisTomashevsky said: "What’s next? Stopping ticket sales to white people once a certain number have been sold? Of course not. They want their munty, hunty! I sure have never heard complaints about “too many white people in the crowd”. Why doesn’t anyone b!tch about them being the majority race that keeps the industry alive through their patronage and investment?"

They... absolutely 100% do. Just because you don't care to engage with this matter in good faith doesn't mean its discussions that aren't happening. Accessibility to underserved audiences is a conversation that happens all of the time, just not one that Broadway Producers are really interested in dealing with because it hurts their bottom line. TDF and TDF Passport are programs specifically designed to bring a broader audiences to the theatre. PAC's 30 under 30 is a means to bring younger people who do not have the funds to pay for full priced tickets."

There’s a difference between getting tickets to people who can’t afford it, and those who can afford it not buying tickets.

I’ve been in mansions owned by black people that would make your head spin. And as I wrote above, there’s more wealth in the Asian household than any other. BD Wong ain’t slumming it. Did he see the show with a purchased ticket, I wonder? If not, he should put his money where his complaining is. 

Updated On: 9/3/25 at 12:39 PM

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 9/3/25 at 1:22pm

Ohh well if there are rich Black people I guess that solves it. Why didn't you just mention that Obama was president and that racism is over if you want to give the most Fox News answer possible. 

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 9/3/25 at 1:28pm

TheatreFan4 said: "Ohh well if there are rich Black people I guess that solves it. Why didn't you just mention that Obama was president and that racism is over if you want to give the most Fox News answer possible."

It actually would solve it. Come to a street corner above the GWB and you’ll see wads (heh) of thousands of dollars being held like Monopoly money. If every drug dealer in Manhattan sponsored a pair of tickets for the underserved of their community, we might get somewhere. Maybe it’s time to redistribute some of THAT wealth. 

And racism has never been ‘less’ over than since the white saviors rode in with their strategies and statistics to eradicate racism.

[Matt Rogers]

Posted: 9/3/25 at 2:38pm

I never thought I'd see the day when a couple of white supremacists would be proudly prancing all over broadwayworld.com spewing garbage at every turn, but here we are.  

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 9/3/25 at 2:41pm

Matt Rogers said: "I never thought I'd see the day when a couple of white supremacists would be proudly prancing all over broadwayworld.com spewing garbage at every turn, but here we are."

We’re articulating sense, but you just call us names. 

[John Adams]

Posted: 9/3/25 at 3:59pm

BorisTomashevsky said: "In 2022, the median net worth of Asian households in the US equaled $535,400—close to double that of white households
https://apps.urban.org/features/asian-american-wealth-snapshot/
I’d like to know how many of the complaining Asian actors bought tickets to see Maybe Happy Ending when it needed them most. Because statistically, there’s privilege there."

"Wealth" and "Privilege" are not the same thing. I believe you've swapped the word, "privilege" for "wealth" in your last statement above. The "statistics" don't mention privilege at all; only wealth.

The reason the Pew report that you indirectly reference gives for why Asian households are wealthier is: 

"Asian households overall have more wealth than other households partly because of the higher level of education among Asian adults. In 2021, 61% of Asians ages 25 and older had a bachelor’s degree or higher level of education, compared with 42% of White adults. As a result, the typical Asian household has a much higher income than other households, with more potential for building wealth."

Would you please consider consulting an Asian adult before posting anything more in this thread? (Statistics indicate they are likely to be more highly educated.)

 

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 9/3/25 at 4:06pm

BorisTomashevsky said: "TheatreFan4 said: "Ohh well if there are rich Black people I guess that solves it. Why didn't you just mention that Obama was president and that racism is over if you want to give the most Fox News answer possible."

It actually would solve it. Come to a street corner above the GWB and you’ll see wads (heh) of thousands of dollars being held like Monopoly money. If every drug dealer in Manhattan sponsored a pair of tickets for the underserved of their community, we might get somewhere. Maybe it’s time to redistribute some of THAT wealth.

And racism has never been ‘less’ over than since the white saviors rode in with their strategies and statistics to eradicateracism."

[BorisTomashevsky]

Posted: 9/3/25 at 4:12pm

So because the theatre industry was established and developed in this country by some white people, they’re somehow “privileged”? Because some white people worked hard for their wealth, they’re “privileged”?

And besides, the heir to an Asian fortune is entirely privileged. 

If this country was developed by Asians, would all other races who live here and have opportunists here complain about “Asian privilege”? 
 

(Statistics indicate they are likely to be more highly educated.)

And how do they obtain and afford these higher educations than the rest…? Either way, education has nothing to do with how people feel. Does someone need to be highly educated to give an opinion on something? Are you saying less educated people can’t have opinions? Hispanics and Latinos are among the least educated. Isn’t it therefore racist to them to suggest that Asians are especially worth speaking to due to their education levels?

I will find racism in almost anything anyone here says. 

Updated On: 9/3/25 at 04:12 PM

[TheatreFan4]

Posted: 9/3/25 at 4:25pm

BorisTomashevsky said: "So because the theatre industry was established and developedin this country by some white people, they’re somehow “privileged”? Because some white people worked hard for their wealth, they’re “privileged”?
 

Ummm... Yes? Literally yes? Like what even is this question? "Some white people who worked hard for their wealth" Black people were their owned property less than 200 years ago! They have only been able to vote for 70 years! Yellow Face was common place until only the last few decades! It was established by white people because it was built on the back of exploitation of everyone not white! Holly hell! Who built the railway that allowed this country to go west and establish business there? The Chinese! Who was then banned from entering the US for a decade because of Anti-Chinese sentiment!?


And besides, the heir to an Asian fortune is entirely privileged.

Wait until I tell you about the the legacy acceptance into Harvard and Princeton, your brain is gonna go insane! 
If this country was developed by Asians, would all other races who live here and have opportunists here complain about “Asian privilege”?"

Ummm yeah? 

Updated On: 9/3/25 at 04:25 PM

[John Adams]

Posted: 9/3/25 at 4:41pm

BorisTomashevsky said: "[...] education has nothing to do with how people feel. Does someone need to be highly educated to give an opinion on something? "

Not at all. But education helps to color people's feelings and opinions. A richer education usually (not always) leads to more thoughtful opinions that incorporate empathy for others. 

BorisTomashevsky also said: "I will find racism in almost anything anyone here says."

That is a statement regarding a personal choice you are making for how you wish to live your life. What's the saying? I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it (or something to that effect).

I can't emphasize enough that it is a choice, however. There are other options available to you. I wish that you would make choices that incorporated more empathy towards others.

 

[Seb28]

Posted: 9/3/25 at 5:53pm

John Adams said: "Guidelines for inclusivity were established to compensate for situations where actors were unfairly/disproportionately dismissed out-of-hand because of characteristics that have no bearing on their talent."

In any case, these guidelines are being abused by the dazed "woke" mob currently attacking MHE. It is very dangerous when these rules stay a one-way street, even when the percentages of work opportunities per race are skewded (in their favor) already. A 90%+ asian cast in this example. And still attacking the only white person job opportunity. Equity/equality should always be a two-way street.

kdogg36 said: "Do you spend equal effort fighting white peoples' perpetual over-representation in a much more important and powerful institution?"

You are missing the point here. I spend absolutely zero time complaining and stomping my feet when a poc gets a job opportunity in your example, like the dazed woke mob does in the example of the Broadway show MHE when a white person gets a job opportunity. Our request to stop complaining about 1 white role in a 90%+ asian cast has absolutely nothing to do with fighting against overrepresentation. Where do you see me fighting against the fact that 90% of the cast is Asian? I am not complaining about that. The reason I mention the fact that it is skewed is to show them how unreasonable and evil their behaviour is. You need to learn to accept that equity/equality is a two-way street.

Matt Rogers said: "I never thought I'd see the day when a couple of white supremacists would be proudly prancing all over broadwayworld.com spewing garbage at every turn, but here we are."

In any case, your posts show that you think that Asian people are inferior. Like I explained in my previous post. That we need your help. That a 90% asian cast instead of a 100% asian cast would somehow "not be good enough" for us. Let me tell you this, we are not victims. We are perfectly overrepresented in work opportunities on Broadway. The Asian people with good intentions just don't want to stab white people in the back by engaging in this racist act, like the mob with bad intentions does in the MHE situation. Equity should always be a two-way street.

 

 

Updated On: 9/3/25 at 05:53 PM

[Matt Rogers]

Posted: 9/3/25 at 6:04pm

Seb28 said: "John Adams said: "Guidelines for inclusivity were established to compensate for situations where actors were unfairly/disproportionately dismissed out-of-hand because of characteristics that have no bearing on their talent."

In any case, these guidelines are being abused by the dazed "woke" mob currently attacking MHE. It is very dangerous when these rules stay a one-way street, even when the percentages of work opportunities per race are skewded (in their favor) already. A90%+ asian cast in this example. And still attacking the only white person job opportunity. Equity/equality should always be a two-way street.

kdogg36 said: "Do you spend equal effort fighting white peoples' perpetual over-representation in a much more important and powerful institution?"

You are missing the point here. I spend absolutely zero time complaining and stomping my feetwhen a poc gets a job opportunity in your example, like the dazed woke mob does in the example of the Broadway show MHE when a white person gets a job opportunity. Our request to stop complaining about 1 white role in a 90%+ asian cast has absolutely nothing to do with fighting against overrepresentation. Where do you see me fighting against the fact that 90% of the cast is Asian? I am not complaining about that. The reason I mention the fact that it is skewed is to show them how unreasonable and evil their behaviour is.You need to learn to accept that equity/equality is a two-way street.

Matt Rogers said: "I never thought I'd see the day when a couple of white supremacists would be proudly prancing all over broadwayworld.com spewing garbage at every turn, but here we are."

In any case, your posts show that you think that Asian people are inferior. Like I explained in my previous post. That we need your help. That a 90% asian cast instead of a 100% asian cast would somehow "not be good enough"for us. Let me tell you this, we are not victims. We are perfectly overrepresented in work opportunities on Broadway. The Asian people with good intentions just don't want tostab white people in the back by engaging in this racist act, like the mob with bad intentions does inthe MHE situation. Equity should always be a two-way street.



"

Oh congratulations. You used the term “woke mob” again. There is nothing wrong with being woke, fool. It means awake. It means you are paying attention. I’d rather associate with people who are awake and paying attention than with brain dead morons who don’t have a clue about anything and just vomit b*llsh*t all over a Broadway chat board from morning till night. 

[JSquared2]

Posted: 9/3/25 at 6:07pm

Well, this NEW thread sure didn't take long to go completely off the rails and into Batsh*t Crazyland!