Evita - Page 11

[The Scorpion]

Posted: 4/2/12 at 8:12am

It's funny, because the reactions I'm reading on this thread are EXACTLY the reactions I thought would happen if the show transferred to Broadway, which it has done now. Back when it was playing in London, based on the comments I was reading from American posters on theatre boards, I noticed the following:

- It tended to be people from the US rather than the UK who had a problem with Elena's accent. No-one I knew who was not American found her unintelligible. I later saw her in Piaf and Passion and understood her just fine. Whether this is because US audiences are less 'exposed' to other accents in the world, I have no idea, but there might be something in that (given how virtually everything is remade for American audiences, especially in the cinema).

- Incessant comparisons with LuPone coming from the American audience, but for some reason the Paige followers from Britain didn't have a problem. LuPone and her interpretation seems to be sacrosanct for American audiences in a way that Paige's turn in the role isn't for us in Britain. I wonder if that's because we knew Evita starting from Julie Covington, whereas Americans weren't really familiar with the concept album. It might have something to do with Paige endorsing Elena Roger and the production and saying that she loved it... I'm pretty certain pigs will fly before LuPone attends this revival, though it'd be really, REALLY interesting if she does, not least because of her post-Sunset anti-ALW stance.

It seems none of this has changed in the intervening 6 years. I'm guessing that perhaps the theatre nuts of the US see 'Evita' as a 'diva' role with a harsh, aggressive Eva as played by LuPone. Paige was nowhere near as aggressive as LuPone (Hal made her far more bitchy for US audiences, as there was greater risk of the charge of 'OMG you're glorifying fascism' coming from the US critics than from London's, with the added risk that the Jewish community wouldn't respond well to a show about a dictator who allegedly helped to harbour the Nazis), and that may be why Roger's performance was much better received by audiences in London. She's the polar opposite of LuPone in that she's chosen to play her sympathetically, and it's an interpretation that, though at odds with the sometimes scathing lyrics, is probably more in tune with how Eva is viewed and depicted in today's Argentina (I really can't see how LuPone's Evita would fit the current Argentine view of Eva from what I perceived when I was living in Buenos Aires, even by those who didn't like Evita). Also Paige and Roger were/are both good dancers; there was a lot less dancing when LuPone did the role and the show was frozen. Whatever Elena lacks in vocal power, she more than compensates for with her dancing.

I thought Elena Roger was electric every time I saw her at the Adelphi in London. I can't wait to see her at the Marquis next month. And I personally loved the revival, and I'm a Hal Prince fanboy. There were things I thought weren't as good as in Hal's production (particularly the staging of Dangerous Jade), but there were also things that I thought were better (Buenos Aires in the revival is amazing IMHO).

Re the sets, I find it odd people are complaining about them not changing much, considering the original was a black box production with no real sense of locale either. If anything, the revival gives a much more obvious impression as to where you are during a particular scene.

Incidentally, for anyone who thought we were badly cheated in London by only getting a highlights recording, there's a Facebook page to register support for a complete recording of the Broadway production. Supposedly the powers-that-be are listening, so might be worth joining. Search for 'Evita Broadway Cast Recording' or something like that on Facebook.

Updated On: 4/2/12 at 08:12 AM

[philitalia]

Posted: 4/2/12 at 8:23am

We saw the show Friday and loved it (maybe a little too polished ?).
I'm not from the US and sometimes (when Elena has to "talk" loudly and quickly she can be a little difficult to understand (and we were in really good seats).

She got a great applause at the end, but I think a big part of the audience came to see Rickyyyyyyy.

Last Friday it was fast-paced and we thought the whole cast and the orchestra sounded wonderful.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 4/2/12 at 9:59am

"I'm pretty certain pigs will fly before LuPone attends this revival, though it'd be really, REALLY interesting if she does, not least because of her post-Sunset anti-ALW stance."

Patti is friendly with Elena and they have conversed. Patti will be at the opening with Mandy. For all the chastising you have done about US audiences and their assumptions, you sure made plenty yourself, including some about Patti.

Why can't people accept that we have plenty to dislike about this revival without making it about Elena's accent or the sanctity of Patti LuPone. Most of us haven't been talking about that.

[Rainbowhigh23]

Posted: 4/2/12 at 10:54am

^Patti and Mandy will be attending on Thursday? Oh what I'd give to see that.

[seventypercentcocoa]

Posted: 4/2/12 at 11:50am

I know I'll likely get blasted with "but it's a MUSICAL" or "this is about the the singing" comments, but I think it's worth mentioning that, at least to me, this is the best acted EVITA I've ever seen. Patti/Mandy's Evita WAS powerful, but largely because of the shock value of Patti's pipes and precision of the production at large.

This is a terrifically acted show. (Yes, Ricky is Ricky.)
I was particularly struck by the chemistry between Eva and Peron. Elena and Cerveris are a believable pair, and their sexuality, emotional life, communication with glances, etc. all register as authentic. (And yes, I could see the from the back of the orchestra...they're playing it broad enough.)

Their first meeting isn't an overplayed farce, but a moment of natural attraction that read as something real. When Peron steps aside to let Eva take the balcony for "Don't Cry for Me Argentina" he looks genuinely proud, not cartoonishly calculating (as in some prodctions I've seen). And the tenderness Peron shows her during "You Must Love Me" was a genuinely touching moment in a show that is rarely soft and sweet at all.

I loved that about this production. If you look at the black and white pictures of the real Juan and Eva, or have ever seen a doc about the pair, it's obvious that--despite some of the horrible things they did to their opponents in Argentina--they genuinely cared for one another, and he was proud of her.

Props to both Elena and Michael for making that happen in a show with very little to work with in that regard. Double props to Cerveris, who takes a woefully underwritten, generally forgettable (who talks about Bob Gunton, really?) role and turning it into a dynamic, multifaceted character. He takes a part that is about 80% pantomime and turns it into a substantial part that bolsters his Evita's effect. (And, for the "but it's a musical!" commentors, he and Von Essen have the best voices onstage.)

And Elena may not sound like Patti, but she's acting the Hell out of Eva. She SOUNDS like Eva. If you listen to the recordings of the real Eva addressing the masses outside this Casa Rosata there's no denying the uncanny resemblence. I prefer her take on Eva to the standard bitchy-belty Evitas available for your viewing pleasure at every community theater across the country.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/2/12 at 11:51am

I'm as big a LuPone fan as (almost) anyone, but I'm looking forward to seeing it Friday. I've heard the Covington and the Paige (long ago), I've memorized the LuPone (long ago too), I've tried to forget the Madonna and I've watched clips of Elena.

I think there is more than one way to play the role and to stage the musical.

That said, the experience of sitting in a theater seat and seeing and hearing Patti LuPone deliver the line "He supports you for he loves you, understands you, is one of you" is on my very short list of electrifying moments in the theater. Patti's voice, Prince's staging, costuming and portraying of Mandy's Che as Che Guevara--all those things contributed to a energy that theatrical productions only rarely achieve. I don't think this is about British vs. Americans.

From the clips and all reports, I imagine I will admire Elena's performance greatly. But I'm not going expecting it to be that kind of peak experience.

I'm much more concerned about being disappointed by Ricky. I will be ineffably sad if he is as underwhelming as other posters have said.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/2/12 at 12:19pm

And in this interview, Elena says she met Patti at at party and that Patti was "lovely."
Elena Roger on Returning to Evita, Working with Ricky Martin and Meeting the Other Evas

[The Scorpion]

Posted: 4/2/12 at 2:41pm

Patti is friendly with Elena and they have conversed. Patti will be at the opening with Mandy. For all the chastising you have done about US audiences and their assumptions, you sure made plenty yourself, including some about Patti.

Oh, I know she's friendly with Elena. When I wrote to Patti 6 years ago when the revival was playing in London, I asked her whether she had seen Elena in the role since I know they had both met at the special performance of Les Mis when it overtook Cats' record in the West End to become London's longest-running musical. She replied that she found Elena charming and said she hadn't been to see Elena in the role. She also added that she generally did not like to see revivals of shows in which she had starred, so I naturally assumed -- especially after her continual anti-ALW comments since Sunset -- that she would stay WELL clear of the Marquis Theatre. I don't think those were unfair assumptions to make. If she's attending, then I can't wait to see if/how she manages to avoid Lloyd Webber -- that is, if he bothers showing up (he never seemed to care much about Evita, sadly).

As for my assumptions re US audiences, I didn't mean to offend, and I'm sorry if I did, but my aim was rather to speculate on why the general audience (if this board can at all be taken as a representative sample, and it may well not do) is FAR more polarised regarding Elena's performance than London ever was. In London she earnt raves from the critics and more raves from the audience (admittedly not all of them shared the critics' views, but the vast majority did). And I don't think I'm wrong in saying that there is a sort of LuPone worship on Broadway that doesn't have an equivalent with Paige in London. If all other things (including Elena's performance) are equal, one must conclude the different reception must be down to what the audience likes and expects.

Why can't people accept that we have plenty to dislike about this revival without making it about Elena's accent or the sanctity of Patti LuPone. Most of us haven't been talking about that.

Really? I thought most people had. The only other frequent criticism which I see recurring again and again is that some don't like the literal, naturalistic approach that Grandage and Oram have taken, but which I personally think is as valid as Hal's abstract black box idea. Interested to hear what else people like and don't like.



Updated On: 4/2/12 at 02:41 PM

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 4/2/12 at 2:54pm

"Why can't people accept that we have plenty to dislike about this revival without making it about Elena's accent or the sanctity of Patti LuPone. Most of us haven't been talking about that."

Yes, it's primarily been the people who have enjoyed the production introducing and especially harping on the comparison, as if they haven't read the myriad other criticisms in this thread that have nothing to do with Patti LuPone. I don't understand how anyone who's actually read this thread could come away thinking that this production's detractors have made it about that at all. It's a very Fox News approach.

"If we keep on saying taxes have gone up under President Obama, it will eventually be a given, despite every single verifiable fact pointing to the contrary."

"If we keep saying the people who don't like this revival of EVITA don't like it because it's not the original production, eventually it will seem true."

It's kind of astonishing.

In fact, I'm not sure that I've seen *anyone* -- in this thread or elsewhere -- make that comparison their primary complaint. Where did this idea originate?

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 4/2/12 at 3:08pm

Oh, I know she's friendly with Elena. When I wrote to Patti 6 years ago when the revival was playing in London, I asked her whether she had seen Elena in the role since I know they had both met at the special performance of Les Mis when it overtook Cats' record in the West End to become London's longest-running musical. She replied that she found Elena charming and said she hadn't been to see Elena in the role. She also added that she generally did not like to see revivals of shows in which she had starred, so I naturally assumed -- especially after her continual anti-ALW comments since Sunset -- that she would stay WELL clear of the Marquis Theatre. I don't think those were unfair assumptions to make. If she's attending, then I can't wait to see if/how she manages to avoid Lloyd Webber -- that is, if he bothers showing up (he never seemed to care much about Evita, sadly).

She said during the Ask a Star (I believe) she did with Mandy Patinkin that she's very interested in seeing the production and seemed to be planning to go. I think they're both interested in how different it is from the Hal Prince production. I wouldn't be shocked if one or both of them was at opening night, because I can't imagine producers wouldn't want to invite them.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 4/2/12 at 3:12pm

there is a sort of LuPone worship on Broadway that doesn't have an equivalent with Paige in London

That's because Elaine Paige is not Patti LuPone.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 4/2/12 at 4:36pm

Double props to Cerveris, who takes a woefully underwritten, generally forgettable (who talks about Bob Gunton, really?) role and turning it into a dynamic, multifaceted character. He takes a part that is about 80% pantomime and turns it into a substantial part that bolsters his Evita's effect.

I felt the same EXACT way about Cerveris in the role. He was great...and what a voice!!! He totally blew me away.

I'm going to go see it again after it opens and see if I feel differently about Elena and Ricky.


Updated On: 4/2/12 at 04:36 PM

[random person 112]

Posted: 4/2/12 at 5:06pm

Mysterious, it's sad but true most people have complained that she is not a belter, or saying how a belter should be playing Evita, or how her accent is too thick, or things to that effect. By the way on another hand i have listened to the lupone recording of don't cry for me argentina hundreds of times, she has never acted it as perfectly as Elena does.

Updated On: 4/2/12 at 05:06 PM

[indytallguy]

Posted: 4/2/12 at 5:10pm

I didn't see Cerveris in The Who's Tommy, but his voice and presence in each of his Sondheim roles have really impressed me, particularly in the Kennedy Center production of Passion. There is a clarity to his diction and a vocal control that really commands your attention whether he is belting or singing more softly.

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 4/2/12 at 5:33pm

"Mysterious, it's sad but true most people have complained that she is not a belter, or saying how a belter should be playing Evita, or how her accent is too thick, or things to that effect."

Well, hey, that's cool, but who was talking about that?

I'm talking about these supposedly rampant comparisons to LuPone and how this production is no good because Roger isn't LuPone and the judgments made on that bias, with no further supporting opinions. Read this thread, and you'll see that a very, very small -- practically insignificant -- fraction of real criticism has even mentioned this.

[AwesomeDanny]

Posted: 4/2/12 at 5:58pm

I have not seen this production, but I think the complaints about Elena's singing are completely valid. The score was written to be almost completely belted, and so much of the score loses its power when not belted, as the movie showed us. Seeing a production of Evita on Broadway, I think an audience can reasonably respect an actress who can sing the role as written. Yes, I know that it is unbelievably difficult and taxing, but this is Broadway--probably the most prestigious place to perform a musical. One would think that the producers could find an actress somewhere in the world who can handle the score as written. Christina DeCicco is apparently singing the score as written, and people seem to be loving her. Even if Elena Roger is an amazing dancer and actress, that's only two-thirds of it, and there are definitely actresses who could handle all three parts (and, really, the singing is much more important than the dancing for this role). I don't think that Elena Roger is really selling any tickets, is she? An unknown actress could have been hired, and her career would have been made. I understand that not every Eva has to be Patti (and I've loved Eva's who sounded completely different), but every Eva, especially on Broadway, must be able to do justice to the score.

Then again, not having seen the show and only judging from the London recording, my opinion might be completely different now. I'm just hypothesizing as someone who worships Patti LuPone's performance, but I understand that nobody can be Patti as Evita. There are still expectations that must be met, especially when performing a multi-million dollar Broadway musical.

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 4/2/12 at 6:04pm

I saw DeCicco, and while she sang the score as written (what was changed for Roger, anyway?) she did not belt. Between Martin's weak acting and no powerhouse vocals from the protagonist, there was a huge dramatic void at the production's center, which could not be filled by Michael Cerveris, no matter how good he is. I left wondering about the piece's viability *without* a belter in the role of Eva. Perhaps a more naturalistic interpretation would work if you had an exceptionally strong and present Che. But with tension lacking in the two most important roles, it was really hard to figure out where the trouble lay.

Updated On: 4/2/12 at 06:04 PM

[AwesomeDanny]

Posted: 4/2/12 at 6:21pm

I meant that Elena Roger didn't sing the score as written by not belting the whole thing, not that anything was changed. About a year ago, I saw a very talented young actress play Eva (in a college production, although she did not go to that college, and she has professional credits) and belt the entire score, and it was thrilling. My point is that there are definitely actresses who can belt the entire score and act very well, so with Ricky Martin filling the house, they don't need a star to play Eva.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 4/2/12 at 6:28pm

Roger sings the score as written. Belting really doesn't have anything to do with the way a score is written. It's a method of voice production, not an aspect of music theory.

Also, I don't think you can say that Julie Covington--the first person to sing the score--"belted the whole thing." I would say Covington and Roger have a similar approach to the score in that respect (though their voices are, of course, very different).

[themysteriousgrowl]

Posted: 4/2/12 at 6:35pm

"Roger sings the score as written. Belting really doesn't have anything to do with the way a score is written. It's a method of voice production, not an aspect of music theory."

Thanks, Reg. That's what I was getting at, but as a non-singer/musician, I wasn't entirely sure if I was correct.

[givesmevoice]

Posted: 4/2/12 at 6:53pm

I always thought that comparisons between Covington, Paige and Roger were more natural than comparisons between any of those women and LuPone. I always thought of it as a London/West End sensibility, but I thought the latter three had a more "pop" like sound than the full-bodied belt LuPone had. Admittedly I find it very difficult to get through the Concept album and both London cast albums because of tempo issues, but that's what I've observed listening to those four women.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 4/2/12 at 7:11pm

I feel like I'm missing something. I've always viewed Eva Peron as a "large" character-a woman who commands attention, chews scenery and, explodes with drive and passion.

The choices for Eva in the revival feel "small." Everyone is talking about the nuances of Elena. Is Eva Peron a nuanced creation? I never thought so.

Maybe I'm wrong but when Juan Peron struck me as the standout in the revival, I felt something was terribly wrong.

Che and Eva are lost in the sauce.

[Reginald Tresilian]

Posted: 4/2/12 at 7:25pm

I found LuPone to be incredibly nuanced. (Though that's certainly not always the case in her various performances of "Don't Cry for Me" over the years.)

[broadwayguy2]

Posted: 4/2/12 at 7:32pm

It's not a matter of belting it to the heavens. It is a matter of power. it is a matter of not sounding thin and strained. It is a matter of understanding... people that don't know the show legitimately can't understand what Eva is saying..

[AwesomeDanny]

Posted: 4/2/12 at 8:04pm

Perhaps "as written" was not the correct phrase... "as intended?" Admittedly, I'm not all that familiar with the concept album, but Julie Covington does belt the "he supports you..." phrase, although not as pleasantly as I think LuPone does. Eva should have a big voice and have, as someone else just said, lots of power. There are many sections of the score that I don't care if they are belted (basically all of the second half of the second act), but if Eva's voice doesn't fill the theatre with a powerful sound, something is lost. So much of the show rests on Eva being a larger-than-life image that her singing must be big in order to be effective.