Here Lies Love and Live Musicians — Page 2

Has AFM 802 released a statement yet? Do we know for sure an agreement has not been made and a few lone musicians are trying to make this a bigger deal than it actually is, or were the producers really trying to open this without live musicians and over the unions head? As hogan said, these are not novice producers. So, not sure how they thought they were going to get away with this. Did any of the prior off-Broadway productions face any backlash for this?

BETTY22 said: "Maybe they should just do the show in another venue. You can't come to Broadway and expect NOT to have live musicians.

It's outrageous!!!!"

After the money they’ve spent into transforming the Broadway theatre, I doubt that’s a viable option right now.

There seems to be some misapprehension of what I have been saying. Never have I suggested that the producer can ignore AFM and move forward with the show. Without some agreement, the show would be shut down for 1 of 2 reasons I have described.

What is on the recording (I listened to some) sounds to me like a fully produced recording, so yes of course that is not the same as a live band of whatever number. Finally, @HeyMrMusic, if you take a look at the CBA, section XIV, you will see that recorded tracks are authorized as long as the agreed-upon number of musicians are employed. I certainly never intended to suggest that 0 musicians was an option. Something will have to be worked on very soon if it hasn't already (is it possible this is a tempest in a teapot?) Rehearsals must start relatively soon and that also requires at least 1 musician.

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "Can someone link to the social media "outrage" surrounding this? I haven't seen anything based on some cursory searches –– and like someone said, may be a few rabblerousers speaking prematurely while negotiations are ongoing. It's very possible that there hasn't been a verdict with the union and producers yet...you'd be surprised how late in the game some of this stuff happens, even with seasoned producers & GMs.

Why is it always AFM that is willing to die on hills like this, clinging to arbitrary and sometimes outdated rules? Thinking back to the BE MORE CHILL orchestra situation."

This is anything but arbitrary and outdated. To equate a production hiring ZERO musicians with a minor squabble involving an orchestrator/contractor performing on said show (a triple dip, if you will), shows a incredible lack of understanding on each issue. There was a mutually beneficial agreement reached on the latter. Are unions just supposed to ignore contracts because you think they’re outdated and arbitrary? They’re agreed upon by both parties.


802 is fighting this, and Byrne and co have been very resilient to change. Unfortunately the arbitration process can take a long time…it’s very likely HLL will open before an agreement is reached without any musicians. Heck, it might even close before they figure it out!

Updated On: 5/26/23 at 01:34 PM

Apparently the offbroadway cast recording used 49 musicians/instruments? Kind of abhorrent to use that many for a cast recording and claim you don’t need any for the live show. Like, at least use synths… I wonder what the music director is going through, surely it’s not easy being in the middle of the production team and fighting for your union.

Updated On: 5/30/23 at 03:18 PM

I wish the cast could walk out on the first performance. Shame on the producer. Everyone should boycott this show.

troynow said: "If you want to perform to track pay the musicians first."

Who says this isn't the case? Think the issue is that it's not live, not that musicians weren't used on the recordings.

This production has been very conscious of avoiding controversy re: optics (touting the heritage & debuts of their cast, noting who on the producing team is Filipino, consultants on the show, etc) so it's kind of funny that it's all blowing up over this now.

I assume AFM's issue is with zero musicians. If they were proposing even 3 musicians, this would not be a talking point.

Meanwhile, funny that the news comes today when it was announced there would be an "off-Broadway cast recording" of a show whose orchestra is being recorded in London separate from the vocals –– not with the New York orchestra that played for its run.

off topic a bit but i wonder if byrne will finally release the sheet music now that it’s going to broadway, i’ve always loved the score

Parts of that letter from Tino Gagliardi are unhinged, reading like the combination of a mob boss meets a child whose cookies were stolen.

– Zero mention of Fatboy Slim (the co-composer) and coauthors Tom Gandey, J Pardo, and Alex Timbers –– placing blame entirely on Byrne and minimizing the contributions of the other authors?
– Zero mention of the lead producer (Hal Luftig) and GM/EP (Foresight) who are the ones with actual power in this situation, yet two stabs at Shubert and no mention of Nederlander (who is also a copro).
– By his logic, live singing is not live music...a slap in the face to an entire sibling union.
– Acting as though this is the first time technology has replaced a live musician, when synthesizers and Ableton have increasingly been utilized on Bway and tours (sometimes positively, depending on the needs of the score).
– Erasure of a multicultural form of music & performance art, as articulated in the production's statement.

I remain in favor of unions and live music if that's what a score calls for –– and I expect this show will eventually get a small number of live musicians –– but the way 802 is going about this is strange and chaotic.

Updated On: 5/30/23 at 05:30 PM

ErmengardeStopSniveling said: "Parts of that letter from Tino Gagliardi are unhinged, reading like the combination of a mob boss meets a child whose cookies were stolen.

– Erasure of a multicultural form of music & performance art, as articulated in the production's statement.

I don't think the union president's lack of mention of the show's multiculturalism counts as "erasure".

It is possible to have economic decency and diversity at the same time. One needn't be sacrificed for the other.

Updated On: 5/30/23 at 05:53 PM

Is there a public list of the orchestra minimum for each house?

Explanation of the show's musical concept:

https://www.instagram.com/p/Cs4g4f1u5W0/

Call_me_jorge said: "Apparently the offbroadway cast recording used 49 musicians/instruments? Kind of abhorrent to use that many for a cast recording and claim you don’t need any for the live show. Like, at least use synths… I wonder what the music director is going through, surely it’s not easy being in the middle of the production team and fighting for your union."

Link to the credits for the Off-Bway cast recording:

https://www.allmusic.com/album/here-lies-love-original-2013-off-broadway-cast-recording--mw0002650314/credits