Isherwood Firing- Page 3
Isherwood Firing
Sunny11
Broadway Star Joined: 9/3/14
#50Isherwood Firing
Posted: 2/22/17 at 3:51pm
But outside of Broadway fans, nobody even knows who Brantley and Isherwood are. A national tv show based on those two are unlikely to attract enough ratings to stay on air.
#51Isherwood Firing
Posted: 2/22/17 at 3:56pm
I think Whizzer is posting with his tongue firmly planted in cheek. Obviously the story of two catty, middle-aged theater critics doesn't begin to reach the level of Bette Davis and Joan Crawford.
"You travel alone because other people are only there to remind you how much that hook hurts that we all bit down on. Wait for that one day we can bite free and get back out there in space where we belong, sail back over water, over skies, into space, the hook finally out of our mouths and we wander back out there in space spawning to other planets never to return hurrah to earth and we'll look back and can't even see these lives here anymore. Only the taste of blood to remind us we ever existed. The earth is small. We're gone. We're dead. We're safe."
-John Guare, Landscape of the Body
#52Isherwood Firing
Posted: 2/22/17 at 4:00pm
Hell, I'd pay to see it, but only at Off-Broadway prices!
http://puccinischronicles.wordpress.com
#53Isherwood Firing
Posted: 2/22/17 at 4:02pm
I know it's sort of explained away in the article, but I do genuinely wonder if Isherwood tipped Rudin off to The Humans before it opened off-Broadway. Not that I think the play shouldn't have transferred or the reviews weren't deserved, but I've always found it odd that Rudin apparently agreed to transfer it without a single review being published. For a play with big stars, it makes some sense, but for The Humans?
I am a firm believer in serendipity- all the random pieces coming together in one wonderful moment, when suddenly you see what their purpose was all along.
neonlightsxo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/29/08
#54Isherwood Firing
Posted: 2/22/17 at 4:24pm
wonderfulwizard11 said: "I know it's sort of explained away in the article, but I do genuinely wonder if Isherwood tipped Rudin off to The Humans before it opened off-Broadway. Not that I think the play shouldn't have transferred or the reviews weren't deserved, but I've always found it odd that Rudin apparently agreed to transfer it without a single review being published. For a play with big stars, it makes some sense, but for The Humans? "
I've thought about a thousand different possibilities, and this one never crossed my mind. Good possibility, I think...
#55Isherwood Firing
Posted: 2/22/17 at 4:25pm
AC126748 said: "I think Whizzer is posting with his tongue firmly planted in cheek. Obviously the story of two catty, middle-aged theater critics doesn't begin to reach the level of Bette Davis and Joan Crawford.
Yes, I don't think Murphy and FX should invest actual time and money into developing a Brantley/Isherwood season, but it's a fun idea. I've heard rumors about a possible Tonya Harding/Nancy Kerrigan Feud season, which isn't technically a "feud" by literal definition, but the media somewhat turned it into one and the story could fit the perimeters of what Murphy is trying to achieve.
A Brantley/Isherwood season could be hilarious to the 30 of us on this board interested in watching it. Imagine a scene where Brantley goes to review Kelli or Kristin in a new musical and Isherwood (bitter that he was denied the assignment and throwing back gin and tonics) starts imitating Brantley queening out over his blonde divas in a highly offensive manner. Later Brantley taunts Isherwood about his plot summary reviews and wagers the top critic spot if Isherwood can come up with a coherent summary of his darling Realistic Joneses- which of course Isherwood won't be able to do, causing him to storm out of Brantley's office, but not before throwing crumpled up Fun Home and Hamilton Playbills at Brantley's head.
Marie: Don't be in such a hurry about that pretty little chippy in Frisco.
Tony: Eh, she's a no chip!
#56Isherwood Firing
Posted: 2/22/17 at 5:06pm
It could have to do with The Humans, but I don't think it has to do with some "tip off." For starters, Rudin doesn't need Isherwood or anyone else to fall in love with a show, as he did with this one, and if you know anything about how he operates you'd understand that. Second, the "tip" doesn't really make chronological sense: there would not have been more than 3-4 days between when Ish saw it and when it opened, and it is highly unlikely that in the interim Rudin marched in and got all the pieces in place without having already optioned it. Third, knowing what Ish was going to say would not have created a compelling argument for the transfer in and of itself. Rudin's shenanigans are usually about the competition, and the attention, not needing someone to tell him what to produce as if he lacks confidence. BTW, I think the Rudin-Times/Brantley "feud" goes back to The Testament of Mary. You can google it: it's another one of those illuminating chapters in the Book of Rudin.
#57Isherwood Firing
Posted: 2/22/17 at 5:37pm
I think creative liberties on Brantley/Isherwood would be a lot, but not far fetched.
FX could also just buy rights to Smash and do a Ivy/Karen Feud season. Since we're wishing. (Yea yea, I know shows moving networks is not realistic, but Mindy did it)
Caption: Every so often there was a rare moment of perfect balance when I soared above him.
zainmax
Broadway Star Joined: 1/12/17
#58Isherwood Firing
Posted: 2/22/17 at 5:51pm
Forbes says that Isherwood will have an uphill legal battle in arbitration. But, I guess that he doesn't have anything to lose at this point. http://www.forbes.com/sites/marchershberg/2017/02/22/fired-ny-times-drama-critic-fires-back/#40959f842885
#59Isherwood Firing
Posted: 2/22/17 at 7:56pm
If this was in the financial industry, this would be akin to inside trading, then to gloat on your employers corporate email and to boot call your superior and boss a wanker, New York Times had no choice what's so ever.
This also could make it hard for Brantley reviewing a Rudin show negatively from now on.
#60Isherwood Firing
Posted: 2/22/17 at 10:28pm
@zainmax "Forbes says that Isherwood will have an uphill legal battle in arbitration."
As seems to be Forbes's standard when it comes to theatrical reporting, it once again embarrassingly misses the forest foe the trees and goes off on a wholly irrelevant tangent. While Ish certainly has an uphill battle, his dismissal has nothing to do with his gripes, and everything to do with his actions that affect the paper's integrity, They can either prove that, or they can't.
@Phantom "If this was [sic] in the financial industry, this would be akin to inside trading, then to gloat on your employers corporate email and to boot call your superior and boss a wanker, New York Times had no choice what's so ever."
Apropos of the above, this totally misses the point. Since no one has delivered the smoking gun, we don't know what it is akin to.
"This also could make it hard for Brantley reviewing a Rudin show negatively from now on."
That doesn't make sense even if we wrongly assume that Ben would be influenced by it in the slightest.
RippedMan
Broadway Legend Joined: 8/14/05
#61Isherwood Firing
Posted: 2/22/17 at 11:46pm
I think the Humans transferring was just a smart choice by Rudin w/o the insider trading. There were no strong play competitors, and look how it turned out.
#62Isherwood Firing
Posted: 2/23/17 at 8:10am
RippedMan said: "I think the Humans transferring was just a smart choice by Rudin w/o the insider trading. There were no strong play competitors, and look how it turned out.
"
Yeah, exactly. Rudin goes to the theater to fall in love, and when he does, he will go out of his way to deploy the considerable resources he has at his disposal in service of the show. By all accounts that is what happened here. I'm sure he was happy when the show opened to a rave from Isherwood, but all signs point to the transfer being a done deal without any influence.
"You travel alone because other people are only there to remind you how much that hook hurts that we all bit down on. Wait for that one day we can bite free and get back out there in space where we belong, sail back over water, over skies, into space, the hook finally out of our mouths and we wander back out there in space spawning to other planets never to return hurrah to earth and we'll look back and can't even see these lives here anymore. Only the taste of blood to remind us we ever existed. The earth is small. We're gone. We're dead. We're safe."
-John Guare, Landscape of the Body
#63Isherwood Firing
Posted: 2/24/17 at 3:41pm
Saw this sponsored post (The Great Comet) with a Isherwood review. Made me strangely giggly, don't even know why.
"The most innovative and the best new musical to open on Broadway since Hamilton.” – Charles Isherwood, The New York Times
Caption: Every so often there was a rare moment of perfect balance when I soared above him.
lsteven
Swing Joined: 4/13/10
#64Isherwood Firing
Posted: 2/24/17 at 8:39pm
Rudin doesn't need Isherwood or anyone else to fall in love with a show, as he did with this one, and if you know anything about how he operates you'd understand that.....Rudin's shenanigans are usually about the competition.????
That is exactly what was at stake if Isherwood was tipping off Rudin in advance. There were multiple parties in discussion about the transfer rights and if one party got the review in advance, then "The transfer, negotiated by producer Scott Rudin before the reviews had come out," is financial gain as a result of an insider tip.
#66Isherwood Firing
Posted: 2/25/17 at 1:09pm
It's all subjective anyway, we don't know the exact ballet that got Isherwood fired, I am sure it will come out in the wash or courthouse.
This thread hasn't seen much traffic and people aren't posting their opinions, so everyone has the same general consensus, what has been leaked out if true, that Isherwood's position was untenerable and if the New York Times didn't take action, it could have fatally damaged their reputation, if what happened came out a different way.
#67Isherwood Firing
Posted: 2/25/17 at 1:24pm
"This also could make it hard for Brantley reviewing a Rudin show negatively from now on."
That doesn't make sense even if we wrongly assume that Ben would be influenced by it in the slightest.
"
I am not saying it will affect Brantley's review, he will claim that nothing will get in the way of his review, which I agree with, Rudin might use a possible negative review as cannon fodder.
The person who comes out of this the worst apart from Isherwood and that is the press agent, he needs to do a lot of spinning.
#68Isherwood Firing
Posted: 2/25/17 at 3:00pm
what cannon fodder? what spinning? I'm not following anything you are saying so it seems to make no sense.
#69Isherwood Firing
Posted: 2/27/17 at 11:19am
Forbes had a new article on Friday about the Ish matter
http://bway.ly/jz7iy#https://www.forbes.com/sites/leeseymour/2017/02/24/even-charles-isherwood-doesnt-know-why-the-ny-times-fired-charles-isherwood/#6d13d49e17d9
While continuing Forbes's surprisingly shoddy coverage of the business of theatre (gaping holes abound, etc) one interesting claim was that "Heller was not a part of the decision to fire him and seems as surprised as anyone."
neonlightsxo
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/29/08
#70Isherwood Firing
Posted: 2/27/17 at 11:39am
The Vulture article said Heller wasn't a part of it, too, didn't it?
#71Isherwood Firing
Posted: 2/27/17 at 11:43am
Yes: "Heller told colleagues he had nothing to do with Isherwood’s firing. It was Mattoon who attended the “Black Friday” meeting. (Both Heller and Mattoon declined to comment, referring queries to a Times spokesperson.)"
The Vulture piece also states: "Someone close to decisions made at the Times rejected the idea that these incidents [meaning Isherwood's disagreements with Heller] had motivated the search, without volunteering an alternative."
"You travel alone because other people are only there to remind you how much that hook hurts that we all bit down on. Wait for that one day we can bite free and get back out there in space where we belong, sail back over water, over skies, into space, the hook finally out of our mouths and we wander back out there in space spawning to other planets never to return hurrah to earth and we'll look back and can't even see these lives here anymore. Only the taste of blood to remind us we ever existed. The earth is small. We're gone. We're dead. We're safe."
-John Guare, Landscape of the Body
#72Isherwood Firing
Posted: 2/27/17 at 12:24pm
Heller does seem to be out front making sure no one thinks this was his call.
The story (which seems to be walking a tightrope between journalism and confession) seems to be suggesting all ethics breaches are non-actionable because of vagueness. That's a preposterous notion, and shocking for someone who purports to be a journalist. (As is the notion that critic/producer interaction is de riguer.) But it also seems to me that that article's attempted point about incosistency is suggesting that the grounds have to be one of the "known" acts, when that is patently unsupported.
BroadwayConcierge
Broadway Legend Joined: 7/24/15
#73Isherwood Firing
Posted: 3/27/17 at 9:43am
Looks like Isherwood's found his next gig...
http://broadway.news/
#74Isherwood Firing
Posted: 3/27/17 at 9:45am
He may as well just stay in his mother's basement and put out a blog; the readership would be the same, I imagine.
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