Isherwood Firing- Page 4
Isherwood Firing
#75Isherwood Firing
Posted: 3/27/17 at 9:56am
I guess when your name is essentially burnt in the industry, you take what you can get, slap on a smile, and issue a statement about this exciting new phase in your career. Perhaps once John Simon finally shuffles off this mortal coil, Isherwood can take his job writing reviews in the Westchester Penny Saver.
Sunny11
Broadway Star Joined: 9/3/14
#76Isherwood Firing
Posted: 3/27/17 at 1:32pm
What a plonker! He had the second best job in New York theater critisium and he blew it all because he wanted the first? ??
cjmclaughlin10
Broadway Star Joined: 6/26/15
ntrackbar
Stand-by Joined: 5/19/14
#78Isherwood Firing
Posted: 4/3/17 at 9:16am
http://broadway.news/2017/04/02/review/the-play-that-goes-wrong-review/
#79Isherwood Firing
Posted: 4/4/17 at 10:16am
Ish is now 52 years old; he will never get another writing job equal to the one he had at the Times. It's doubtful that he could write any kind of book that would sell more than a few hundred copies. He could pursue a teaching job at some lower-tier school that would be pleased to employ a crit/lit professor who had worked at a few major organs, but he would have to do regular hours for the first time in his life, answer to a department chair, and he may just be too old for that kind of transition.
If he weren't such an annoyingly bad writer and obtuse thinker, one might feel sorry for him, but like John Simon, he wasted his life on the pursuit of a rather negative and useless vocation, so - "you lie down with dogs, you get up with fleas."
#80Isherwood Firing
Posted: 4/4/17 at 10:36am
He is in precisely the same position (plus having a better resume and minus having a worse "reputation"
as everyone in his age bracket who once worked for a major print outlet and was terminated for one reason or another. All of them cobble together some sort of existence, whether it involves doing lesser work (for remuneration or not) and/or eking by on savings, retirement, buyouts etc. I'm not sure where the teaching idea came from, but I'd just note that your notion of what is required of a NYTimes critic vis-a-vis a college professor is ill-informed.
#81Isherwood Firing
Posted: 4/4/17 at 10:38am
Oh, I agree that he has no teaching credentials whatsoever; I thought I made it rather clear that he would only be hired by a relatively podunk college impressed by his Variety and Times experience.
#82Isherwood Firing
Posted: 4/4/17 at 1:12pm
newintown said: "Oh, I agree that he has no teaching credentials whatsoever; I thought I made it rather clear that he would only be hired by a relatively podunk college impressed by his Variety and Times experience."
Almost no one who teaches anything related to theatre (among most other disciplines) at the most prestigious schools arrives at that job without teaching credentials.
#83Isherwood Firing
Posted: 4/4/17 at 1:23pm
Well that's just ludicrously untrue; I personally know many professors of acting, directing, and playwrighting who had no teaching credentials, but were hired based on professional experience. What do you think you're talking about?
#84Isherwood Firing
Posted: 4/4/17 at 1:28pm
To pick up on this hypothetical thread: Journalism school professors are also frequently current/former journalists rather than career academics; Isherwood could easily market himself as a candidate for a professorship at a J-school, and his decade-plus tenure with the Times would actually mean something. When I attended J-school, I'd say at least half my professors had a BA or BS as their highest degree.
#85Isherwood Firing
Posted: 4/4/17 at 1:31pm
Exactly, AC126748. College professorships generally require no teaching certificate. I have no idea what Hogan thinks he's talking about.
#86Isherwood Firing
Posted: 4/4/17 at 1:41pm
HogansHero said: "newintown said: "Oh, I agree that he has no teaching credentials whatsoever; I thought I made it rather clear that he would only be hired by a relatively podunk college impressed by his Variety and Times experience."
Almost no one who teaches anything related to theatre (among most other disciplines) at the most prestigious schools arrives at that job without teaching credentials.
Actually, nearly all persons on faculty at colleges and universities start their academic careers without any teaching credentials. Some have never taught at all, others have served as TA's, and some have taught an undergrad course or two (and it's questionable whether even the latter provides them with "teaching credentials" per se).
#87Isherwood Firing
Posted: 4/4/17 at 1:51pm
I think HogansHeros is talking about terminal degrees. But not all positions require a terminal degree, and in some positions, a preponderance of relevant work experience can substitute. As I said, when I went to journalism school (at one of the top programs in the country), most of my profs were not PhDs or MFAs.
#88Isherwood Firing
Posted: 4/4/17 at 2:04pm
AC126748 said: "I think HogansHeros is talking about terminal degrees. But not all positions require a terminal degree, and in some positions, a preponderance of relevant work experience can substitute. As I said, when I went to journalism school (at one of the top programs in the country), most of my profs were not PhDs or MFAs.
Yes, and this is true in a number of other fields. For example, top programs in government and public policy often hire non-Ph.D.'s based on experience. And art and music schools will sometimes hire highly accomplished artists or musicians even where they lack an undergrad degree.
jimmycurry01
Broadway Legend Joined: 5/28/05
#89Isherwood Firing
Posted: 4/4/17 at 2:05pm
HogansHero said: "Almost no one who teaches anything related to theatre (among most other disciplines) at the most prestigious schools arrives at that job without teaching credentials.
"
You are kidding, right? I am assuming that you are because many respected theatre departments have lecturers, instructors, and professors who do not have teaching credentials. Sutton Foster has enjoyed a position on the faculty of Ball State University, and even The Yale School of Drama has many lecturers, and instructors who have zero teaching credentials.
#90Isherwood Firing
Posted: 4/4/17 at 2:14pm
Let's give Hogan the benefit of the doubt and say he's having a hard day, and just made something up.
It reminds me of a gal who liked to pretend she was an expert on all things theatre. During a conversation, somebody mentioned how much he had paid for house seats to a popular show, and this gal said "Paid? You don't pay for house seats!" There was a bit of a stunned silence, and someone finally asked her, "Why not?" She replied, "Well, they're called 'house seats' because they're on the house!"
#91Isherwood Firing
Posted: 4/4/17 at 3:00pm
newintown said: "Well that's just ludicrously untrue; I personally know many professors of acting, directing, and playwrighting who had no teaching credentials, but were hired based on professional experience. What do you think you're talking about?"
calm down; it was a typo. without = with. we are in agreement. The point I intended (apologies to one and all for creating a tempest in a teapot) was that you seemed to be saying that because Ish lacked teaching credentials he would be limited to gigs at podunk colleges. It's obvious now that that makes no sense, by your own statements (and others)...
#92Isherwood Firing
Posted: 4/4/17 at 3:14pm
No, I think he would be limited by the minor "scandal" of his firing. Perhaps not, but I think the better schools might see him as tainted goods.
#93Isherwood Firing
Posted: 4/4/17 at 5:41pm
newintown said: "No, I think he would be limited by the minor "scandal" of his firing. Perhaps not, but I think the better schools might see him as tainted goods."
That may well be (and it pretty much closes the loop on this). Although in this business (show, if not press) taint is sometimes a badge of honor. 
#95Isherwood Firing
Posted: 4/5/17 at 7:31am
I was just posting in the Shakespeare in the Park thread about studying under Oskar Eustis at UCLA. Per Wiki, Oskar "attended NYU briefly" and that was the extent of his college education.
His dramaturgy classes were not only considered some of the most difficult in the department, but the seminar I took is one of a handful of classes that profoundly changed me by reorienting the way I think. He is quite simply a great teacher.
I could name others who were successful artists but nearly incapable of conveying what they did to anyone else. So it works both ways. But it is definitely true that theater departments (like journalism, writing and art schools) will substitute professional experience for teaching experience or advance degrees.
A friend of mine who reviewed TV for a major NYC daily for many years had several full-time offers when he retired from the paper. The job he took came with tenure, even though he had little teaching experience and no terminal degrees.
Sunny11
Broadway Star Joined: 9/3/14
#96Isherwood Firing
Posted: 7/1/17 at 10:57am
So a settlement between Isherwood and NYT has been reached. Well at least he is still working as a critic. He's not as high profile as he used to be but he dosent need to fight Brantley for the plumb show assignments anymore which was what annoyed him while at the Times.
Updated On: 7/1/17 at 10:57 AM#97Isherwood Firing
Posted: 7/1/17 at 11:20am
to be clear, "working" is a bit of a stretch. (And it is not clear whether or for how long he will get tickets for "plumb show assignments" for writing at a blog that has less readers than would fill most Broadway houses for a night. )
yankeefan7
Broadway Legend Joined: 4/14/12
#98Isherwood Firing
Posted: 7/1/17 at 11:20am
"He's not as high profile as he used to be but he dosent need to fight Brantley for the plumb show assignments anymore which was what annoyed him while at the Times. "
I always wondered how they decided which shows they would review.
#99Isherwood Firing
Posted: 7/1/17 at 11:44am
yankeefan7 said: ""He's not as high profile as he used to be but he dosent need to fight Brantley for the plumb show assignments anymore which was what annoyed him while at the Times. "
I always wondered how they decided which shows they would review.
"
What is there to wonder about? Brantley, as chief theater critic, got first pick of what he wanted to review. Brantley's also-rans fell to Isherwood and the stringers.
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