Joanne question in Company

[wiggum2]

Posted: 6/11/22 at 12:57pm

Sorry if this has been explained somewhere but why wasn't Joanne gender swapped? She could have become Joe

 

thanks

[BCfitasafiddle]

Posted: 6/11/22 at 12:59pm

Speaking for myself, I would not want to hear a man sing "The Ladies Who Lunch." It's a vehicle for a Broadway diva leading lady. I don't think it would ever be a question of swapping. 

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 6/11/22 at 1:15pm

Joanne is a mirror reflection of Bobbie.  The oldest of her female friends so someone she somewhat identify with.  Gender-swapping the role would make zero sense in their scene and “The Ladies Who Lunch” moment they both can identify with.  

[ljay889]

Posted: 6/11/22 at 1:31pm

Also, Sondheim was strongly against the all male/gay version that was workshopped years ago. There’s no way he would’ve allowed a male Joanne for this revival. 

[JSquared2]

Posted: 6/11/22 at 2:29pm

The Roundabout once did a workshop with some gender swapping -- and Alan Cumming was "Joanne".  It did NOT work.

[Georgeanddot2]

Posted: 6/11/22 at 3:20pm

The song would become blatantly misogynistic if sung by a man.

[Dollypop]

Posted: 6/11/22 at 3:55pm

Hmm...It might be interesting to hear Nathan Lane sing "Ladies Who Lunch" or would the song be changed to "Guys Who Down Brews"?

Updated On: 6/11/22 at 03:55 PM

[BrodyFosse123]

Posted: 6/11/22 at 5:24pm

JSquared2 said: "The Roundabout once did a workshop with some gender swapping -- and Alan Cumming was "Joanne". It did NOT work."

Ouch!

 

[JasonC3]

Posted: 6/11/22 at 5:29pm

I remember seeing him sing this here in Indianapolis as a part of The Cabaret's lineup.  People at my table were in agreement that if a man was going to sing it, he should not be the one despite his many talents.

[ashley0139]

Posted: 6/11/22 at 8:59pm

I highly recommend reading the article that was released a few days ago that is a series of emails between Marianne Elliott (director) and Sondheim. It answers many questions about the decisions made in the revival.

[blaxx]

Posted: 6/11/22 at 9:13pm

ashley0139 said: "I highly recommend reading the article that was released a few days ago that is a series of emails between Marianne Elliott (director) and Sondheim. It answers many questions about the decisions made in the revival."

Links will help you thrive!

[ashley0139]

Posted: 6/11/22 at 9:16pm

blaxx said: "ashley0139 said: "I highly recommend reading the article that was released a few days ago that is a series of emails between Marianne Elliott (director) and Sondheim. It answers many questions about the decisions made in the revival."

Links will help you thrive!"

I knew someone would (fairly) say that. Took me a second to find it.

https://deadline.com/2022/06/stephen-sondheim-marianne-elliott-new-emails-company-evolution-1235037493/

[ljay889]

Posted: 6/11/22 at 9:18pm

BrodyFosse123 said: "JSquared2 said: "The Roundabout once did a workshop with some gender swapping -- and Alan Cumming was "Joanne". It did NOT work."

Ouch!

 

"

God, that was dreadful. 

[kurtal]

Posted: 6/11/22 at 9:32pm

I did wonder why they didn't just have Joanne make a pass at female Bobbie the way she does in the original with male Bobby.  The "why don't you hook up with Larry" element, I think, lessened the impact of the scene.  

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 6/11/22 at 10:21pm

kurtal said: "I did wonder why they didn't just have Joanne make a pass at female Bobbie the way she does in the original with male Bobby. The "why don't you hook up with Larry" element, I think, lessened the impact of the scene. "
 

I agree. LuPone delivers a stunning stark performance and you definitely get the sense that Joanne is lonely. I don’t think it would be a stretch for her to seek validation by any means necessary. She could hit on Bobbie. She wants to feel younger, more attractive, more relevant. I think it would be powerful. 
 

Offering her husband felt strange. Essentially that feels like giving up to me. 

 

[GlindatheGood22]

Posted: 6/12/22 at 11:53am

Bettyboy72 said: "kurtal said: "I did wonder why they didn't just have Joanne make a pass at female Bobbie the way she does in the original with male Bobby. The "why don't you hook up with Larry" element, I think, lessened the impact of the scene. "


I agree. LuPone delivers a stunning stark performance and you definitely get the sense that Joanne is lonely. I don’t think it would be a stretch for her to seek validation by any means necessary. She could hit on Bobbie. She wants to feel younger, more attractive, more relevant. I think it would be powerful.


Offering her husband felt strange. Essentially that feels like giving up to me.

"

I really like the idea of Joanne hitting on Bobbie in theory, but it might feel out of place in a production which has multiple opportunities to make Bobbie bisexual and so insistently refuses to go down that road. I interpreted Joanne offering Larry as her indicating that she knows something is already going on between them (that weird moment where she watches Larry touch Bobbie's hair?!?!). In general I felt let down by the Joanne/Bobbie scene in this revival, especially the fact that "But who will I take care of?" has been changed to "But who will take care of me?"

[ashley0139]

Posted: 6/12/22 at 1:20pm

GlindatheGood22 said: "Bettyboy72 said: "kurtal said: "I did wonder why they didn't just have Joanne make a pass at female Bobbie the way she does in the original with male Bobby. The "why don't you hook up with Larry" element, I think, lessened the impact of the scene. "


I agree. LuPone delivers a stunning stark performance and you definitely get the sense that Joanne is lonely. I don’t think it would be a stretch for her to seek validation by any means necessary. She could hit on Bobbie. She wants to feel younger, more attractive, more relevant. I think it would be powerful.


Offering her husband felt strange. Essentially that feels like giving up to me.

"

I really like the idea of Joanne hitting on Bobbie in theory, but it might feel out of place in a production which has multiple opportunities to make Bobbie bisexual and so insistently refuses to go down that road. I interpreted Joanne offering Larry as her indicating that she knows something is already going on between them (that weird moment where she watches Larry touch Bobbie's hair?!?!). In general I felt let down by the Joanne/Bobbie scene in this revival, especially the fact that "But who will I take care of?" has been changed to "But who will take care of me?""

See, and this scene works so much better for me in this revival than previous versions. It's so much more intense with it being woman to woman and the self-destruction of Joanne offering her husband so that she is in "control" and gets ahead of anything that may happen. But that's why art is subjective. :)

[Nolan LuPone]

Posted: 6/12/22 at 3:48pm

I also liked the new interaction between Bobbie and Joanne. I felt like it showed how truly weak and vulnerable Joanne is under her façade of power and money. She feels very insecure, and decides that she should give Larry up to a more deserving woman that doesn’t constantly mask her emotions. Just my opinion. Like Ashley said, art is subjective. AND it sounds like LuPone changes her interpretation and performance every night, so it’s not hard to imagine that some people took different things from her performance, negative and positive.

Updated On: 7/3/22 at 03:48 PM

[akhoya87]

Posted: 6/12/22 at 4:00pm

Nolan LuPone said: "I also liked the new interaction between Bobbie and Joanne. I felt like it showed how truly weak and vulnerable Joanne is under her façade of power and money. She feels very insecure, and decides that she should give Larry up to a more deserving woman that doesn’t constantly mask her emotions. Just my opinion. Like Ashley said, art is subjective."

Interestingly enough, I didn't understand this until I saw Jen Simard's cover as Joanne the second time I saw Company.  I didn't get the weakness/vulnerability from Patti's performance (the first time I saw the show, anyway), and didn't get it from Anisha in my third watch, either.  With Jen, the scene made a whole lot more sense -- that beneath the bluster and bravado, there lies a very unconfident and vulnerable woman.

[Bettyboy72]

Posted: 6/12/22 at 6:08pm

Nolan LuPone said: "I also liked the new interaction between Bobbie and Joanne. I felt like it showed how truly weak and vulnerable Joanne is under her façade of power and money. She feels very insecure, and decides that she should give Larry up to a more deserving woman that doesn’t constantly mask her emotions. Just my opinion. Like Ashley said, art is subjective."

I loved Pattis performance of this scene. So much gravitas and underlying heartbreak. I don’t think Joanne believes anything is going on between her husband and Bobbie, but she knows that their marriage is sexless (I assume) or lacking passion. She wants to be clear that she is ok if something happens but she wants to keep the marriage. She is willing to turn a blind eye. 
 

I agree that she is trying to remain in control so she puts the cards on the table. While it may allow her to feel in control, I do think it is rather insulting to Bobbie and could hurt their relationship down the line. Part of me thought that might be the last time they hang out.  

 

[jimmycurry01]

Posted: 6/12/22 at 6:17pm

Patti's Joanne is definitely insecure and very jealous of Bobbie. Bobbie is living the life Joanne wishes she had. Joanne is of that older generation; marriage was expected of her. Not only did she get married, but when her marriage failed she gave marriage two more tries. She ends up with Larry, who definitely loves her, but even with Larry that jealousy is still bubbling away.

When Patti's Joanne tells Bobbie not to get married, I think she really means it. When Bobbie blurts out the question of who will take care of her, I think this genuinely catches Joanne off guard. As Bobbie reaches her epiphany that she might actually want something more, maybe Joanne realizes that Bobbie's life isn't all that glamorous, and that it's OK to be satisfied with Larry, the guy who finds her fascinating.

There was a lot more nuance and depth going on with Patti's Joanne in this production than I saw in Barbra Walsh's performance in the last revival. Walsh's performance was certainly fun and enjoyable, but there is an acidity to Patti's performance in this production that brings the role to a different level, and I think a lot of that has to do with making Bobbie a female. That really brings a new life and a different edge to Joanne's character.