#26
Posted: 7/26/23 at 12:14pm
It's been a long time since I've seen it, but would you count Applegate in Damn Yankees?
Leading Roles that Don't Really Do Much/Featured Roles that Do A Ton — Page 2
#27
Posted: 7/26/23 at 12:15pm
jkcohen626 said: "IDK how they will be ruled when it comes to Tony season. But, when it comes to advertising, Ninoy and Ferdinand in Here Lies Love are definitely being pushed as leads despite being decidedly supporting characters. Each has a few songs compared to Imelda's 15+ and they both also disappear for large portions of the show (and I definitely noticed their absences). Their parts aren't THAT much bigger than Estrella!"
That makes me wonder how the Tonys even decide what is and isn't a lead. It's so interesting to see people like Christian Borle (for Peter and the Starcatcher), Dan Fogler (for Spelling Bee), Betty Buckley (for Cats), and Brandon Uranowitz (for Leopoldstadt obviously) who win for featured roles despite having more to do in their shows than anybody else. I suppose it's possible that shows specifically tell the Tonys what they want their role sizes to be referred to as, but that would mean they either tell the Drama Desk something different sometimes or that one or the other is using some outside method of calculating role sizes.
#28
Posted: 7/26/23 at 12:31pm
Yes re Damn Yankees. Young Joe Hardy gets the songs (on stage at least. The film cut them.) While Applegate has "Good Old Days." The revisal also gave him "Two Lost Souls." But he's still a show stealing supporting role.
Lola's interesting because she arrives late and has little plot agency. But once she's on stage she gets more music and attention than Joe's wife Meg.
threepanelmusicals.blogspot.com
#29
Posted: 7/26/23 at 2:56pm
I was in a production of Les Mis where Marius and Cosette shared the second to last bow at curtain call. I remember thinking how weird it felt seeing Javert and the Thenardiers bow, only to be followed by Cosette. I get that it was just a choice on the directors part so that we could see a couple bow, but the implication that Cosette is the "second biggest" role felt really weird. I think Cosette is referenced more times than she actually steps on stage.
#30
Posted: 7/26/23 at 4:04pm
DJD4 said: "I was in a production of Les Mis where Marius and Cosette shared the second to last bow at curtain call. I remember thinking how weird it felt seeing Javert and the Thenardiers bow, only to be followed by Cosette. I get that it was just a choice on the directors part so that we could see a couple bow, but the implication that Cosette is the "second biggest" role felt really weird. I think Cosette is referenced more times than she actually steps on stage."
A similar thing happened when my high school did it way back. Also Marius was played by an adult man and Cosette was a fifteen year old, but that's irrelevant. I feel like it's bizarre to change the order like that, though. I think the biggest role is Valjean, followed by Javert, followed by the Tenardiers, followed by Eponine, followed by Enjolras, followed by Marius, and then all the way in the back of your mind is Cosette. I feel like if you combine Cosette and Young Cosette there's more of a case for it being a leading role, but that'd be like combining James and Ladahlord in James and the Giant Peach just because technically they're the same character. Or every character in A Strange Loop because they're all in Usher's head.
#31
Posted: 7/26/23 at 4:21pm
BeingAlive44Ever said: "jkcohen626 said: "IDK how they will be ruled when it comes to Tony season. But, when it comes to advertising, Ninoy and Ferdinand in Here Lies Love are definitely being pushed as leads despite being decidedly supporting characters. Each has a few songs compared to Imelda's 15+ and they both also disappear for large portions of the show (and I definitely noticed their absences). Their parts aren't THAT much bigger than Estrella!"
That makes me wonder how the Tonys even decide what is and isn't a lead. It's so interesting to see people like Christian Borle (for Peter and the Starcatcher), Dan Fogler (for Spelling Bee), Betty Buckley (for Cats), and Brandon Uranowitz (for Leopoldstadt obviously) who win for featured roles despite having more to do in their shows than anybody else. I suppose it's possible that shows specifically tell the Tonys what they want their role sizes to be referred to as, but that would mean they either tell the Drama Desk something different sometimes or that one or the other is using some outside method of calculating role sizes."
The way that it works is that anyone above the title is automatically considered leading and anyone below is automatically considered featured. Then shows can submit (and very often do) to have someone moved. Most non-star leads are below the title these days. I think Bette Midler in 2017 was probably the last above-the-title best actor or actress winner (and Patti LuPone won last year, but had been bumped down to Featured).
Someone correct me if I'm wrong. But, I don't think that the Tonys would change someone's eligibility without their show requesting it and I also don't think that they need to approve the requests. It's up to the Tony eligibility committee at the end of the day.
#32
Posted: 7/26/23 at 5:41pm
jkcohen626 said: "BeingAlive44Ever said: "jkcohen626 said: "IDK how they will be ruled when it comes to Tony season. But, when it comes to advertising, Ninoy and Ferdinand in Here Lies Love are definitely being pushed as leads despite being decidedly supporting characters. Each has a few songs compared to Imelda's 15+ and they both also disappear for large portions of the show (and I definitely noticed their absences). Their parts aren't THAT much bigger than Estrella!"
That makes me wonder how the Tonys even decide what is and isn't a lead. It's so interesting to see people like Christian Borle (for Peter and the Starcatcher), Dan Fogler (for Spelling Bee), Betty Buckley (for Cats), and Brandon Uranowitz (for Leopoldstadt obviously) who win for featured roles despite having more to do in their shows than anybody else. I suppose it's possible that shows specifically tell the Tonys what they want their role sizes to be referred to as, but that would mean they either tell the Drama Desk something different sometimes or that one or the other is using some outside method of calculating role sizes."
The way that it works is that anyone above the title is automatically considered leading and anyone below is automatically considered featured. Then shows can submit (and very often do) to have someone moved. Most non-star leads are below the title these days. I think Bette Midler in 2017 was probably the last above-the-title best actor or actress winner (and Patti LuPone won last year, but had been bumped down to Featured).
Someone correct me if I'm wrong. But, I don't think that the Tonys would change someone's eligibility without their show requesting it and I also don't think that they need to approve the requests. It's up to the Tony eligibility committee at the end of the day."
The confusing thing is really just that different award shows seem to do it differently
Also in some cases there are productions like Falsettos in which every actor is below the title but the obvious lead is still the lead
And honestly I think that, if Falsettos requested both times for Marvin to be a leading actor for the sake of the Tonys, one time or the other they would've requested Trina as well. I mean, maybe I'm wrong, but I bet that sometimes the Tony committee just chooses based on "common sense" who counts as a lead.
#33
Posted: 7/26/23 at 6:02pm
I think there's usually a bit of a game producers play when looking at who the other nominees in each category are to try to get a role in featured/leading if it's on the brink. I think it's pretty much considered category fraud now but Daisy Eagan won in featured for The Secret Garden for what should definitely have been a leading role, but I think they did that because they knew Lea Salonga was going to win for Miss Saigon in leading.
#34
Posted: 7/26/23 at 6:12pm
Grizabella and Old Deuteronomy are the only characters in CATS considered (contractually) Principals.
In casting BREAKDOWNS, Munkunstrap and Gus and a few of the others are considered principals but in contracts
its Grizabella and Old Deuteronomy. Griz does so little in the show and Deut, while he has so much more stage time
than Grizabella, does not do much. That show is truly an ensemble show. I believe one can also argue some of the
principals in Titanic don't do so so much.
#35
Posted: 7/26/23 at 6:14pm
chrishuyen said: "I think there's usually a bit of a game producers play when looking at who the other nominees in each category are to try to get a role in featured/leading if it's on the brink. I think it's pretty much considered category fraud now but Daisy Eagan won in featured for The Secret Garden for what should definitely have been a leading role, but I think they did that because they knew Lea Salonga was going to win for Miss Saigon in leading."
That's actually a really good theory. I agree that Daisy Eagan was effectively in a leading role, much the same as Jonathan Kaplan was when he was nominated for Falsettos, but I think that the reason they're considered featured roles is actually so that they don't have to use alternates. Billy Elliot and Matilda showed that leading roles played by children need alternates, perhaps due to child labor laws. However, the Tonys are definitely an extra benefit for that. I think Brandon Uranowitz was also intentionally placed into the Featured Actor in a Play category because they knew he'd have a better chance there than in Leading Actor. I can't help but wonder if there are some inverse scenarios to this.
#36
Posted: 7/27/23 at 11:08am
I played Booth in Assassins very recently. Excellent role with great material, but I was surprised that his role is only in the first and final 20 minutes. There is nearly an hour in the middle where he's not onstage.
Updated On: 7/27/23 at 11:08 AM
#37
Posted: 7/27/23 at 11:28am
broadway86 said: "I played Booth in Assassins very recently. Excellent role with great material, but I was surprised that his role is only in the first and final 20 minutes. There is nearly an hour in the middle where he's not onstage."
I don't know how a show like Assassins that has to develop so many characters nearly equally wouldn't have hour long gaps without certain characters, but that makes you wonder why Booth is considered a Lead by most
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