#26
Posted: 3/10/12 at 6:00am
Yeah, but can you imagine the movie using a Fender Rhodes?
Les Mis Filming Has Started — Page 2
#27
Posted: 3/10/12 at 6:37am
Why did they move it? Because it won't be finished in time.
They have already rushed the post production schedule on this movie unbelievably. I can't believe they're still trying to release it this year.
They have already rushed the post production schedule on this movie unbelievably. I can't believe they're still trying to release it this year.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
Updated On: 3/10/12 at 06:37 AM
#28
Posted: 3/10/12 at 7:43am
We have no idea how long post-production is supposed to take on this - IMDB says it's through November, and a week I don't think will make a difference. I think it's some sort of marketing strategy, and if it was to wait until next year it would be another whole year before we see it, almost two. And who knows what it would be up against then.
#29
Posted: 3/10/12 at 7:49am
We have no idea how long post-production is supposed to take on this
Yeah, I have a pretty good idea. I worked at a post house for a decade.
This isn't a small comedy, it's an epic period musical with extensive audio and video post needed. A normal post schedule on a project of this scope would be six to eight months after filming completed. That would put them into January or February.
EDIT: What you're likely to see and hear because it's being rushed now are sloppy matte/CG shots with rough edges, incomplete or crude lighting renders, badly mixed audio, and awkward edits.
And yes, hours can help, let alone a full week.
Yeah, I have a pretty good idea. I worked at a post house for a decade.
This isn't a small comedy, it's an epic period musical with extensive audio and video post needed. A normal post schedule on a project of this scope would be six to eight months after filming completed. That would put them into January or February.
EDIT: What you're likely to see and hear because it's being rushed now are sloppy matte/CG shots with rough edges, incomplete or crude lighting renders, badly mixed audio, and awkward edits.
And yes, hours can help, let alone a full week.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
Updated On: 3/10/12 at 07:49 AM
#30
Posted: 3/10/12 at 8:28am
Yeah, but can you imagine the movie using a Fender Rhodes?
I, for one, don't mind being reminded that the show was created in the 1980's. I understand that some people find that distracting and some even think it's inherently repellent, as if enjoying anything from the 80's is impossible. I'm not a douche, so I don't ever force my opinions and preferences onto others, which is why I always make it a point to explain what I mean and am open to alternatives. It will continue to be that way as long as it isn't just all about me.
Yes, I'm nuts about the original 87' creation, but I think a very fine compromise that removes any remnant of the 80's (unfortunately) and effectively makes the musical timeless in that the shallow won't get all cross eyed over the music conjuring up even a mild sense of those awesome 80's, is the 10th anniversary concert orchestration adapted by John Cameron from his own original work. I did not know this until a couple of years ago, but John was never satisfied with the updated keyboard patches used in that concert and eventually used in all productions at the time. I don't mind them but I could see why they aren't favored by the orchestrator--they don't blend with the rest of the score like the original patches did. In fact, they are even more noticeable and they remove that unforgiving grit that became so iconic and was so effective. The 10th anniversary orchestration still retains the bulk of the original work's intention, mood, character, and irreplaceable story telling properties. It's somewhat softer but not confused and sometimes even dead as in the new concoction.
Btw, keyboards are still used in the "updated" orchestration currently featured in the 25th anniversary tour and London production and they sound more metallic and 'electronic' than the originals and 10th anniversary ones did. Even worse, they don't seem to complement or blend with anything and stick out like nobody's business. A lot of people don't seem to mind or notice, but ah well, such is the state of music in musicals these days. Yup.
I, for one, don't mind being reminded that the show was created in the 1980's. I understand that some people find that distracting and some even think it's inherently repellent, as if enjoying anything from the 80's is impossible. I'm not a douche, so I don't ever force my opinions and preferences onto others, which is why I always make it a point to explain what I mean and am open to alternatives. It will continue to be that way as long as it isn't just all about me.
Yes, I'm nuts about the original 87' creation, but I think a very fine compromise that removes any remnant of the 80's (unfortunately) and effectively makes the musical timeless in that the shallow won't get all cross eyed over the music conjuring up even a mild sense of those awesome 80's, is the 10th anniversary concert orchestration adapted by John Cameron from his own original work. I did not know this until a couple of years ago, but John was never satisfied with the updated keyboard patches used in that concert and eventually used in all productions at the time. I don't mind them but I could see why they aren't favored by the orchestrator--they don't blend with the rest of the score like the original patches did. In fact, they are even more noticeable and they remove that unforgiving grit that became so iconic and was so effective. The 10th anniversary orchestration still retains the bulk of the original work's intention, mood, character, and irreplaceable story telling properties. It's somewhat softer but not confused and sometimes even dead as in the new concoction.
Btw, keyboards are still used in the "updated" orchestration currently featured in the 25th anniversary tour and London production and they sound more metallic and 'electronic' than the originals and 10th anniversary ones did. Even worse, they don't seem to complement or blend with anything and stick out like nobody's business. A lot of people don't seem to mind or notice, but ah well, such is the state of music in musicals these days. Yup.
Recreation of original John Cameron orchestration to "On My Own" by yours truly. Click player below to hear.
#31
Posted: 3/10/12 at 8:53am
They seem to have approached the entire film-making process for this musical in a different manner by front-loading extensive singing and acting rehearsals as well as fully conceptualizing the lead actor's portrayal ahead, to ensure that live singing and acting performances during filming do not require more takes than necessary. I wonder if post-production will be as lengthy with this process?
This is not just a medium-sized independent outfit involved but a major studio is also behind the film project ( which can provide technical and financial support) - so maybe we can be hopeful that things will fall into place as planned in detail?
Let's hope for the best!
This is not just a medium-sized independent outfit involved but a major studio is also behind the film project ( which can provide technical and financial support) - so maybe we can be hopeful that things will fall into place as planned in detail?
Let's hope for the best!
Updated On: 3/10/12 at 08:53 AM
#32
Posted: 3/10/12 at 9:09am
I'm definitely hoping for the best. I really don't want it to look or sound cheap.
The live singing only shorted pre-production, which is where the songs are usually recorded for production. I don't know that it helps with post at all. I have a feeling there will need to be post overdubs for any number of technical reasons. If anything makes a loud noise during a vocal take, they'll have to dub it in post. And we're talking about battle scenes, tavern scenes, factory scenes ... all with potential background noises ruining audio takes. Even in a non-singing film with similar scenes, there would be extensive overdubbing in post to fix those issues. There always is.
Aside from that, the live singing will create many issues with audio editing, piecing together a vocal performance and a visual performance from many takes, and then mixing it all together. Actually, from a post standpoint, it would probably be easier to work with a pre-recorded audio.
As far as visuals, I'm sure they will have to "matte in" period buildings, skylines, and/or remove anything modern from any location shooting they do. Those are all CG visual effects shots. You would be shocked at how much CG goes into even a small romantic comedy these days. There's even things like "wrinkle removal" from certain stars' faces. (Trust me on that.) So shots you think look simple can actually take weeks to work on. There's also wire removal, if any stunts in battles require actors to be lifted off the ground.
Les Mis could potentially have all of these things going on. And with a very slim post production schedule, they aren't allowing themselves any breathing room. I guarantee you they're paying serious rush fees already to make this release date. They may even be utilizing two or three post houses to divide and conquer the work.
I don't envy anyone who is working post on this film with a December release and production just now starting in March.
The live singing only shorted pre-production, which is where the songs are usually recorded for production. I don't know that it helps with post at all. I have a feeling there will need to be post overdubs for any number of technical reasons. If anything makes a loud noise during a vocal take, they'll have to dub it in post. And we're talking about battle scenes, tavern scenes, factory scenes ... all with potential background noises ruining audio takes. Even in a non-singing film with similar scenes, there would be extensive overdubbing in post to fix those issues. There always is.
Aside from that, the live singing will create many issues with audio editing, piecing together a vocal performance and a visual performance from many takes, and then mixing it all together. Actually, from a post standpoint, it would probably be easier to work with a pre-recorded audio.
As far as visuals, I'm sure they will have to "matte in" period buildings, skylines, and/or remove anything modern from any location shooting they do. Those are all CG visual effects shots. You would be shocked at how much CG goes into even a small romantic comedy these days. There's even things like "wrinkle removal" from certain stars' faces. (Trust me on that.) So shots you think look simple can actually take weeks to work on. There's also wire removal, if any stunts in battles require actors to be lifted off the ground.
Les Mis could potentially have all of these things going on. And with a very slim post production schedule, they aren't allowing themselves any breathing room. I guarantee you they're paying serious rush fees already to make this release date. They may even be utilizing two or three post houses to divide and conquer the work.
I don't envy anyone who is working post on this film with a December release and production just now starting in March.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#33
Posted: 3/10/12 at 9:09am
My Oh My,
What would you reaction be to a typical Hollywood film orchestration (usually it ups the ante, something like 70-100 pieces as opposed to the limits imposed by the orchestra pit of a standard sized theater) that used the actual instruments the keyboard patches were intended to represent? Would you still miss the Yamaha DX7?
What would you reaction be to a typical Hollywood film orchestration (usually it ups the ante, something like 70-100 pieces as opposed to the limits imposed by the orchestra pit of a standard sized theater) that used the actual instruments the keyboard patches were intended to represent? Would you still miss the Yamaha DX7?
"There is no problem so big that it cannot be run away from."
~ Charles M. Schulz
#34
Posted: 3/10/12 at 9:19am
>>>I guarantee you they're paying serious rush fees already to make this release date. They may even be utilizing two or three post houses to divide and conquer the work.<<<
I guess that is what I tried to delicately phrase as having big studio technical and financial support - by having massive resources available to the creative and production teams. LOL!
One aspect - will film scoring still be needed for this kind of a sung-through movie musical? Doesn't that also take place during post?
I guess that is what I tried to delicately phrase as having big studio technical and financial support - by having massive resources available to the creative and production teams. LOL!
One aspect - will film scoring still be needed for this kind of a sung-through movie musical? Doesn't that also take place during post?
#35
Posted: 3/10/12 at 9:20am
regarding the scoring of the music for the movie...if it's anything like the movie version of SWEENEY TOOD, the music will be enhanced by a fuller sounding orchestra, and in my opinion thats a good thing...if nothing else Tim Burton's film version had WONDERFUL orchestral music of SONDHEIM'S score to listen to...so fully realized...with the lush score for LES MEZ, i am hoping for that type or musical treatment...
#36
Posted: 3/10/12 at 9:28am
jo---yes, the scoring takes place in post. And with wall-to-wall music in the film, they will probably utilize multiple orchestrators as well.
There are so many issues with the live singing, especially on location, I can't even begin to think what they face. Not just pitch issues, but mic placement issues from one take to the next, etc.
If I were shooting this, I would definitely use a multi-camera setup for everything. You would have your closeups going on simultaneously with your medium shots, long shots, and reverses. As many as four cameras filming at once, even on something as simple as "I Dreamed a Dream." That would give you clean choices in post for editing. If you piece it together from different takes, you're going to get different levels in volume as well as emotion, and then try to make it cohesive in editing. A real nightmare in the making.
With the orchestrations, I'm sure the non-singing moments (battle scenes, factory scenes, action scenes) will also be scored and orchestrated with either existing or new music. All of that happens in post.
There are so many issues with the live singing, especially on location, I can't even begin to think what they face. Not just pitch issues, but mic placement issues from one take to the next, etc.
If I were shooting this, I would definitely use a multi-camera setup for everything. You would have your closeups going on simultaneously with your medium shots, long shots, and reverses. As many as four cameras filming at once, even on something as simple as "I Dreamed a Dream." That would give you clean choices in post for editing. If you piece it together from different takes, you're going to get different levels in volume as well as emotion, and then try to make it cohesive in editing. A real nightmare in the making.
With the orchestrations, I'm sure the non-singing moments (battle scenes, factory scenes, action scenes) will also be scored and orchestrated with either existing or new music. All of that happens in post.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#37
Posted: 3/10/12 at 9:35am
I recall that before Hugh Jackman went on his limited Broadway one-man show, he was in London for a few days to help on tests being conducted to test the option of live singing.
This was taken from an interview with him when his Broadway show was winding up --
>>>You’re starting rehearsals for the movie adaptation of Les Miz later this month. I read that there are going to be no prerecorded songs — that you’ll be singing live on the set. Is that true?
Yes, I believe we are going to be singing live. We will obviously have to do a safety prerecord, because when you’re singing you’ve got to have all the music in your ear, and I’m guessing also for quality of sound for the soundtrack. And sometimes when you film there are noises — smoke machines, things like that — where the actual sound on set may not be usable. But most of it we’re going to be singing live, which for something like Les Miserables is essential. You don’t want it to feel like it’s all done in a recording studio, nor do you want it to look like the actors are miming the whole thing. I wouldn’t know how to do that. I think it would take more work to mime it than to sing it.<<<
This was taken from an interview with him when his Broadway show was winding up --
>>>You’re starting rehearsals for the movie adaptation of Les Miz later this month. I read that there are going to be no prerecorded songs — that you’ll be singing live on the set. Is that true?
Yes, I believe we are going to be singing live. We will obviously have to do a safety prerecord, because when you’re singing you’ve got to have all the music in your ear, and I’m guessing also for quality of sound for the soundtrack. And sometimes when you film there are noises — smoke machines, things like that — where the actual sound on set may not be usable. But most of it we’re going to be singing live, which for something like Les Miserables is essential. You don’t want it to feel like it’s all done in a recording studio, nor do you want it to look like the actors are miming the whole thing. I wouldn’t know how to do that. I think it would take more work to mime it than to sing it.<<<
#38
Posted: 3/10/12 at 9:58am
Honestly, I'm excited about the project. I just don't want them to rush through post and make an inferior "product" in the end.
Everything Hugh says sounds great, except they haven't allowed much time to get it done. That's the scariest part of attempting a risky production like this.
There's a classic saying in the post-production, creative services world that always proves to be true ...
"You can have it cheap (meaning inexpensive), you can have it fast, you can have it good. Pick two."
Everything Hugh says sounds great, except they haven't allowed much time to get it done. That's the scariest part of attempting a risky production like this.
There's a classic saying in the post-production, creative services world that always proves to be true ...
"You can have it cheap (meaning inexpensive), you can have it fast, you can have it good. Pick two."
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
#39
Posted: 3/10/12 at 11:53am
Thanks for all the useful info on this, Besty! Your posts are a fascinating read.
I've been worried about the schedule for this project for a while, I felt they took too long to start and they settled on a release date a little too quickly. I hope they're not trying to rush this to release it in time for awards and in the process sacrifice the quality of the actual product. They should also keep in mind that two films last year were not ready until basically a couple weeks before their release, GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO and EXTREMELY LOUD AND INCREDIBLY CLOSE. Both movies were unavailable to some critics' groups for some of the awards, I hope that's not the case with this one.
I've been worried about the schedule for this project for a while, I felt they took too long to start and they settled on a release date a little too quickly. I hope they're not trying to rush this to release it in time for awards and in the process sacrifice the quality of the actual product. They should also keep in mind that two films last year were not ready until basically a couple weeks before their release, GIRL WITH THE DRAGON TATTOO and EXTREMELY LOUD AND INCREDIBLY CLOSE. Both movies were unavailable to some critics' groups for some of the awards, I hope that's not the case with this one.
"Some people can thrive and bloom living life in a living room, that's perfect for some people of one hundred and five. But I at least gotta try, when I think of all the sights that I gotta see, all the places I gotta play, all the things that I gotta be at"
#40
Posted: 3/10/12 at 5:13pm
"My Oh My,
What would you reaction be to a typical Hollywood film orchestration (usually it ups the ante, something like 70-100 pieces as opposed to the limits imposed by the orchestra pit of a standard sized theater) that used the actual instruments the keyboard patches were intended to represent? Would you still miss the Yamaha DX7?"
You really think I'm hoping they use the standard 22-musician orchestration used at the theatre for the film? Of course not. I am very aware of and do not doubt they will be using an orchestra with at least twice, maybe even three times the number of musicians and instruments than what was used on Broadway.
Do you think the keyboards were there to replace authentic orchestral sounds played by human musicians?
I'm not referring to number of instruments and musicians at all.
And the keyboards did NOT attempt to mimic and replace any traditional orchestral sounds. They were their OWN, unique hybrid sounds that no instrument but a keyboard could produce.
I'd be more than just a little bit ridiculous if I was making a stink over mere orchestra size. :S
What would you reaction be to a typical Hollywood film orchestration (usually it ups the ante, something like 70-100 pieces as opposed to the limits imposed by the orchestra pit of a standard sized theater) that used the actual instruments the keyboard patches were intended to represent? Would you still miss the Yamaha DX7?"
You really think I'm hoping they use the standard 22-musician orchestration used at the theatre for the film? Of course not. I am very aware of and do not doubt they will be using an orchestra with at least twice, maybe even three times the number of musicians and instruments than what was used on Broadway.
Do you think the keyboards were there to replace authentic orchestral sounds played by human musicians?
I'm not referring to number of instruments and musicians at all.
And the keyboards did NOT attempt to mimic and replace any traditional orchestral sounds. They were their OWN, unique hybrid sounds that no instrument but a keyboard could produce.
I'd be more than just a little bit ridiculous if I was making a stink over mere orchestra size. :S
Recreation of original John Cameron orchestration to "On My Own" by yours truly. Click player below to hear.
Updated On: 3/11/12 at 05:13 PM
#41
Posted: 3/10/12 at 5:59pm
Thanks very much, ray.
I really hope they can make their release date. The thing is that this is a "prestige" picture that will definitely be pushed for Oscars. So the December holiday season is ideal. To have it come out in January or February would be disappointing from a marketing perspective. It would almost be better to wait until late spring and the start of "summer blockbuster" season.
My guess is that they would never do that. They will pay whatever it takes to rush the post schedule and get the film out in December. Period. Even if they have to hire five production houses to get it done. It's either that (watching the budget skyrocket) or start making compromises in the quality.
All because they started filming about 2-3 months too late to have a "normal" post schedule for a film of this size and scope.
I really hope they can make their release date. The thing is that this is a "prestige" picture that will definitely be pushed for Oscars. So the December holiday season is ideal. To have it come out in January or February would be disappointing from a marketing perspective. It would almost be better to wait until late spring and the start of "summer blockbuster" season.
My guess is that they would never do that. They will pay whatever it takes to rush the post schedule and get the film out in December. Period. Even if they have to hire five production houses to get it done. It's either that (watching the budget skyrocket) or start making compromises in the quality.
All because they started filming about 2-3 months too late to have a "normal" post schedule for a film of this size and scope.
"Jaws is the Citizen Kane of movies."
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
blocked: logan2, Diamonds3, Hamilton22
Updated On: 3/10/12 at 05:59 PM
#42
Posted: 3/11/12 at 6:44pm
According to Universalpictures.com, the date hasn't been changed at all. It's still being released on December 7.
I've dropped them an email asking them about it, we'll see if they write me back or change the date on their site.
I've dropped them an email asking them about it, we'll see if they write me back or change the date on their site.
#43
Posted: 3/11/12 at 8:17pm
"It's also the week before Christmas which is a big movie-going time so maybe that's part of it."
Actually it's not. I was a movie theater manager for twenty years. People are shopping, partying etc. The action starts the day after Christmas when all the kids are out of school for the week and lots of parents take their vacation time, but the studios need to lock in their screens now. Look at "Titanic", opened the week before Christmas but the gross was bigger the next and was higher than it's opening weekend four more weekends in a row.
Actually it's not. I was a movie theater manager for twenty years. People are shopping, partying etc. The action starts the day after Christmas when all the kids are out of school for the week and lots of parents take their vacation time, but the studios need to lock in their screens now. Look at "Titanic", opened the week before Christmas but the gross was bigger the next and was higher than it's opening weekend four more weekends in a row.
#44
Posted: 3/11/12 at 8:25pm
I actually meant it's the weekend before Christmas week starts, if that makes any difference. Christmas Eve is a Monday and Christmas a Tuesday. The week after 12/14 is 12/22.
#45
Posted: 3/27/12 at 1:45pm
Short clip of Russell Crowe. Doesn't appear to be any music.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fK8hZNnDtz4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=fK8hZNnDtz4
"This thread reads like a series of White House memos." — Mister Matt
#46
Posted: 3/27/12 at 8:14pm
Crowe tweets LOL:
Russell Crowe @russellcrowe
5am-12.30am, door 2 door, long day. Had a bit of a sing,released a prisonner on payrole after 19 years...24601...enjoy your hours of freedom
Russell Crowe @russellcrowe
5am-12.30am, door 2 door, long day. Had a bit of a sing,released a prisonner on payrole after 19 years...24601...enjoy your hours of freedom
#47
Posted: 3/27/12 at 8:31pm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjvhTXVZROs&feature=relmfu
Namo i love u but we get it already....you don't like Madonna
#48
Posted: 3/28/12 at 9:15am
The beard on Hugh is OFF:
Hugh Jackman @RealHughJackman
And yes, the convict beard and hair are gone. Got to shave it off last night!
Hugh Jackman @RealHughJackman
Awesome burger at Jamie Oliver's restaurant in Portsmouth last night. After no carbs for ages...heaven!
http://pic.twitter.com/xZPb5Wrm
Hugh's Twitter
#49
Posted: 3/28/12 at 9:15am
The beard on Hugh is OFF:
Hugh Jackman @RealHughJackman
And yes, the convict beard and hair are gone. Got to shave it off last night!
Hugh Jackman @RealHughJackman
Awesome burger at Jamie Oliver's restaurant in Portsmouth last night. After no carbs for ages...heaven!
http://pic.twitter.com/xZPb5Wrm
Hugh's Twitter
Hugh Jackman @RealHughJackman
And yes, the convict beard and hair are gone. Got to shave it off last night!
Hugh Jackman @RealHughJackman
Awesome burger at Jamie Oliver's restaurant in Portsmouth last night. After no carbs for ages...heaven!
http://pic.twitter.com/xZPb5Wrm
Hugh's Twitter
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