Lesbianism and beastiality in Gypsy

[ChrisLovesShows]

Posted: 7/29/04 at 9:08pm

I have always been curious about this and wonder what others think. After June and the Farmboys sing "Broadway," June gets on the train but then gets off. She says she can't go to Broadway because she has "true love" on the farm with Caroline the cow. Are June and Caroline a couple? In other words, are they romantically involved? Is there perhaps even a sexual component to their relationship? June seems to be saying so. This has always suprised me because it seems like it was a lot to ask an audience in 1959 to accept. Even with today's more liberal standards, the most open-minded person might find it hard not to cringe at the human-bovine love affair. What do you think? Do you think June and Caroline's relationship is a perversion or do you accept their love?

Updated On: 2/2/19 at 09:08 PM

[etoile]

Posted: 7/29/04 at 9:24pm

I was going to say that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar, but realized that on this board it might confuse the issue.

[HeartinNYC]

Posted: 7/29/04 at 9:32pm

OMG. This is one of the strangest issues ever. I think I need to take a tonic and lie down.

[HeartinNYC]

Posted: 7/29/04 at 9:35pm

Yes, Undiscovered. Can't forget the gin!

[NuggetMonkeys]

Posted: 7/29/04 at 9:39pm

I think it is simply a joke, being placed in their vaudeville act. and personally, i thought that obivous, but some people think deeper/more serious than i do.
-d.b.j-

[BlueWizard]

Posted: 7/29/04 at 9:44pm

most open-minded person might find it hard not to cringe at the human-bovine love affair.

Maybe I'm just not open-minded enough, but I burst laughing when I read "human-bovine love affair"!

[ugajlh]

Posted: 7/29/04 at 9:50pm

Well - if that's true, at least that Moo cow is a True Cow (no worries about her leaving June for someone new

[BalletGirl85]

Posted: 7/29/04 at 9:58pm

Sick, albeit very true. I've always kinda wondered about that. Although maybe, since I'm pretty sure the Farmboys were all sexually attached to one another, she had no one else to turn to, and in an act of desperation turned to the cow. Maybe I'm looking too deeply into the matter and it's as simple as the fact that cows just turn her on? The world may never know!

[MusicMan]

Posted: 7/29/04 at 10:51pm

This is, hands down, the most absurd thread I've ever read.

[Jaynrand]

Posted: 7/29/04 at 11:10pm

Madame Rose is the one who was always dreaming about that darn cow!

[SuperSchubert]

Posted: 7/29/04 at 11:34pm

Are you kidding?

I agree that this has to be the most absurd thread ever. It's just a joke. I'm all for reading into Gypsy, as it is a musical that is very complex, but don't you think this is a bit extreme???

Posted: 7/29/04 at 11:40pm

this has to be the weirdest thing ive ever read on a thread before...

[shesings]

Posted: 7/29/04 at 11:50pm

I wonder if Maureen and Elsie are getting it on when they jump over the moon. Are June and Caroline meeting them there?

Posted: 7/29/04 at 11:53pm

I have to say that I laughed so very hard when I read this...

Chris -- ask to quote Finding Nemo... :You Made me Ink:

[The Goat]

Posted: 7/29/04 at 11:55pm

I don't think this is an absurd thread at all! It IS a weird musical number, if you think about it. And I think a couple of posters are on to something, if you add it up. Madame Rose IS the one who is always thinking about that cow and wanting it in the act. And the act she cooks up is one that has June in love with the cow and NOT one of the boys, because she doesn't want June to leave her for one of the boys (which she does anyway, as she senses there is something not quite "right" with her mother's overwhelming attachment to her, I think). The cow is "female," of course--and a cow is connected with the maternal, if not the matronly (the cow could be a stand-in for Rose, that is). So the act is about June not leaving the cow/Rose, finally, but staying with her (or, at least, Rose's wish that this be so). And, as it turns out, the real Rose had affairs with women, and was either lesbian or bisexual, depending upon your take. So what (gay) "Gypsy" book writer Arthur Laurents might have been doing was presenting the "lesbian" aspects of Rose's story--even in her intense connections with her daughters (especially Baby June)--in a comical, coded form, since, at the time, he couldn't get away with more obvious references. Not everyone needs to read it this way, certainly, but the material IS there for a, shall we say, "queer" reading of the cow number in relation to June and Rose!

[Matt_G]

Posted: 7/29/04 at 11:58pm

I've always thought the boys were totally into man on cow sex. When Rose says she had a dream about a cow, one of the says "Sex at last" or something to that effect.

And I knew something was happening with that damn lamb when Louise started breast feeding it on her bed 5 minutes after she got it and had already written a lullaby about it. But Herbie found out about their love that cannot be named and had it destroyed which is why it was never seen again after that song.

Actually, when you think about it Louise was into all sorts of animals. Little cat, little lamb, little fish (that's where you get your lesbianism) little this and little that. The child was sick.

[shesings]

Posted: 7/29/04 at 11:58pm

but did the real Rose really write the song about the cow? I think not. So its that sick Sondheim who we should really be questioning ....

[StickToPriest]

Posted: 7/30/04 at 12:00am

...no comment...

[Rose_MacShane]

Posted: 7/30/04 at 12:07am

You're joking, right?

Posted: 7/30/04 at 12:10am

...and still I laugh so hard that I am now really about to wet myself.

But it is true if you read way into all these things.
Some say there is a fine fine line beteen love and waste of bovine.

[Mike3]

Posted: 7/30/04 at 12:15am

Dracula better begin previews soon so we have something to talk about. This is getting out of hand.

[AnothaPartofMe]

Posted: 7/30/04 at 12:33am

Actually if you didn't know this-- in one of the books I read in regards to GYPSY (her memoirs, June's memoirs, or Gypsy's son's memoirs-- Growing Up with Gypsy Rose Lee...or whatever the title was)... HERBIE in the musical was not his real name. Herbie was the name of one of Madame Rose's butch lesbian flings.

[MusicMan]

Posted: 7/30/04 at 1:09am

Goat, though your analysis of the farm act acknowledges Rose's unconscious possessiveness and coded lesbianism, you have overlooked the implied incest (with strong overtones of a leather fetish) between June and Louise since the latter is the object of her sister's romantic inclinations while dressed in a cow suit.

As Freud said to his daughter, "Anna, sometimes a banana is just a banana."
Updated On: 7/30/04 at 01:09 AM

[NYSinger1]

Posted: 7/30/04 at 3:36am

I just want to comment that if this was a paper written for a Drama /Lit class, it would probably get an A. It's definitely the first time I have ever thought about it, and personally, I am a little grossed out by the suggestion!! We can find all sorts of things in different plays. Good plays work well on many levels.

But, I am totally grossed out....and yes Mike....we need a new show to open so we have something to discuss!

[The Goat]

Posted: 7/30/04 at 10:04am

I wonder why people who say they are "grossed out" or otherwise upset by the discussions on this thread even logged on to a thread titled "lesbianism and beastiality in GYPSY" in the first place?