LuPone on McDonald- Page 23

[SmokeyLady]

Posted: 5/29/25 at 8:43pm

Matt Rogers said: "SmokeyLady said: "Matt Rogers said: "SmokeyLady said: "My goodness you have completely lost it. Not one word coming out of you is making sense ."

If you were willing to use the quote button, people would know what you are responding to."

Got it. I am so sorry. It is not worth is. Just the crazy lady in the recent posts telling me I am a embarassment to people of color and then goingoffon some tantrums. I am not sure.. but I think she just threatened me with a spell or something. Scroll back if you think it is worth your time."

Apparently there is a coven of witches (or at least b itches) on here lately. I wouldn’t worry about them. They have no power."

You got that right! 

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 5/29/25 at 8:46pm

verywellthensigh said: "Ensemble1698878795 said: "verywellthensigh said: "Ensemble1698878795 said: "MB124 said: "So I’m stupid because I don’t agree with you.

Got it.

Well you’re wasting your breath and time.

“Nuance” is not the same thing as grasping at straws to connect a bitchy remark to someone’s race.

Don’t you think your energy might be better spent actually participating in some kind of activism?

I am sure you’ll respond but I am done trying to level with you so have fun talking to no one."

Activism is dismantling these threads of white people who want performances from Black legends, but won't defend them when a whole group of people tell you they're being disrespected. I know exactly where I am. Wouldn't your energy be better fit listening and shutting up to learn?"

No...that's raising awareness. And a lot of slacktivists and finger-wagging church ladies think it's the end point. It's not."

I will not take advice on activism by active enablers of white supremacy. You're not winning this, babe.

How have I enabled white supremacy?

I have said I thought Patti was a dick and I'm not in the dark about how racist Broadway can be. I have heard from Black friends who have worked on Broadway how unpleasant the experience can be, with at least one telling me she'd never go back.

Where we disagree is Patti's actions with the noise problem being a patently racist gesture or even a microaggression. I disagree with your logic and your hyperbolic, condescending hostility to anyone who disagrees with you makes it very difficult to take you seriously. From your love of Kafka traps to comparing minor infractions to murder to playing more-POC-than-thou with other Black voices on this board, you have done nothing but behave like Jane Elliott on massive amounts of crystal meth. If your goal--and I still don't know what it is--is to create more compassion for Black suffering, you are failing miserably. Like the White Fragility book which you clearly are a discipleof, you are meandering, hypocritical,and never come together into a cohesive argument."

 

I'm not expecting white people on this board to have compassion for the Black plight. Many don't do it in real life, how the hell would you do it in the theater? It's evident that some of you are willfully ignorant. So be it. But that doesn't mean I won't disturb the space. We can't all have nice things and these spaces of whiteness are luxuries for many of you bc they are typically absent of POC POV's . It's a message board. Sorry it's uncomfortable and all the other things you called my argument. I feel similar about the white mob mentality on here. 

 

[joevitus]

Posted: 5/29/25 at 8:52pm

blaxx said: "Ensemble1698878795 said: "Midnight Radio said: "Here we go again, let's please identify her "racist tendencies." If your entire argument is she treats black people the same way she treats everyone else, the one failing to think critically or with nuance is you."

So she can treat anyone like trash and still have a fruitful career?That's WHITE PRIVILEGE my dear. You fail to admit it, but Black women are Black balled for such behavior.Patti is applauded. But no more."

Yes! This is exactly how people on this board look at her. She is "blunt", "straightforward" and a legend, thus whatever she says is admirable because it comes from her.

As Kad said on the first page of this board, agree or not, "Patti's gonna Patti."

Fighting her stand on this board is futile."

I don't find a single person describing her comments about Audra or Keisha as "admirable." Link, copy, whatever your prefence. This is what's so singuarly insane about this argument. Pretty much EVERYONE has agreed it was a terrible way to address the issue. The response "Patti will Patti" is more a "What do you expect?" than "isn't it wonderful!" There are people who feel she was within her rights to ask for the sound levels to be lowered and a couple of people who think Keisha's original response to that was out of line. 

But to paint all this as everyone giving Patti a "You go, girl!" moment, let alone endorsing racism--the charge bandied about over and over again--is Just. Freaking. Nuts. 

Updated On: 5/29/25 at 08:52 PM

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 5/29/25 at 8:54pm

joevitus said: "blaxx said: "Ensemble1698878795 said: "Midnight Radio said: "Here we go again, let's please identify her "racist tendencies." If your entire argument is she treats black people the same way she treats everyone else, the one failing to think critically or with nuance is you."

So she can treat anyone like trash and still have a fruitful career?That's WHITE PRIVILEGE my dear. You fail to admit it, but Black women are Black balled for such behavior.Patti is applauded. But no more."

Yes! This is exactly how people on this board look at her. She is "blunt", "straightforward" and a legend, thus whatever she says is admirable because it comes from her.

As Kad said on the first page of this board, agree or not, "Patti's gonna Patti."

Fighting her stand on this board is futile."

I don't find a single person describing her comments about Audra or Keisha as "admirable"? Link, copy, whatever your prefence. This is what's so singuarly insane about this argument. Pretty much EVERYONE has agreed it was a terrible way to address the issue. The response "Patti will Patti" is more a "What do you expect?" than "isn't it wonderful!" There are people who feel she was within her rights to ask for the sound levels to be lowered anda couple of people who think Keisha's original response to that was out of line.

But to paint all this aseveryone giving Patti a "You go, girl!" moment, let alone endorsing racism--the charge bandied about over and over again--is Just. Freaking. Nuts."

Well what are you doing by calling my POV nuts? Are you not endorsing her behavior? 

[joevitus]

Posted: 5/29/25 at 9:02pm

Ensemble1698878795 said: "joevitus said: "blaxx said: "Ensemble1698878795 said: "Midnight Radio said: "Here we go again, let's please identify her "racist tendencies." If your entire argument is she treats black people the same way she treats everyone else, the one failing to think critically or with nuance is you."

So she can treat anyone like trash and still have a fruitful career?That's WHITE PRIVILEGE my dear. You fail to admit it, but Black women are Black balled for such behavior.Patti is applauded. But no more."

Yes! This is exactly how people on this board look at her. She is "blunt", "straightforward" and a legend, thus whatever she says is admirable because it comes from her.

As Kad said on the first page of this board, agree or not, "Patti's gonna Patti."

Fighting her stand on this board is futile."

I don't find a single person describing her comments about Audra or Keisha as "admirable"? Link, copy, whatever your prefence. This is what's so singuarly insane about this argument. Pretty much EVERYONE has agreed it was a terrible way to address the issue. The response "Patti will Patti" is more a "What do you expect?" than "isn't it wonderful!" There are people who feel she was within her rights to ask for the sound levels to be lowered anda couple of people who think Keisha's original response to that was out of line.

But to paint all this aseveryone giving Patti a "You go, girl!" moment, let alone endorsing racism--the charge bandied about over and over again--is Just. Freaking. Nuts."

Well what are you doing by calling my POV nuts? Are you not endorsing her behavior?"

^^This? This line of "reasoning"? Purley nuts. 

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 5/29/25 at 9:05pm

joevitus said: "Ensemble1698878795 said: "joevitus said: "blaxx said: "Ensemble1698878795 said: "Midnight Radio said: "Here we go again, let's please identify her "racist tendencies." If your entire argument is she treats black people the same way she treats everyone else, the one failing to think critically or with nuance is you."

So she can treat anyone like trash and still have a fruitful career?That's WHITE PRIVILEGE my dear. You fail to admit it, but Black women are Black balled for such behavior.Patti is applauded. But no more."

Yes! This is exactly how people on this board look at her. She is "blunt", "straightforward" and a legend, thus whatever she says is admirable because it comes from her.

As Kad said on the first page of this board, agree or not, "Patti's gonna Patti."

Fighting her stand on this board is futile."

I don't find a single person describing her comments about Audra or Keisha as "admirable"? Link, copy, whatever your prefence. This is what's so singuarly insane about this argument. Pretty much EVERYONE has agreed it was a terrible way to address the issue. The response "Patti will Patti" is more a "What do you expect?" than "isn't it wonderful!" There are people who feel she was within her rights to ask for the sound levels to be lowered anda couple of people who think Keisha's original response to that was out of line.

But to paint all this aseveryone giving Patti a "You go, girl!" moment, let alone endorsing racism--the charge bandied about over and over again--is Just. Freaking. Nuts."

Well what are you doing by calling my POV nuts? Are you not endorsing her behavior?"

^^This?This line of "reasoning"? Purley nuts."

By saying we agree with you, but it's not racist is to discredit those that actually experience racism. Just bc you don't feel it doesn't mean it's there.

[Sally Durant Plummer]

Posted: 5/29/25 at 9:17pm

Ensemble1698878795 said: "By saying we agree with you, but it's not racist is to discredit those that actually experience racism. Just bc you don't feel it doesn't mean it's there."

You discredit yourself with every post.

 

[Mickey3309]

Posted: 5/29/25 at 9:22pm

Updated On: 5/29/25 at 09:22 PM

[joevitus]

Posted: 5/29/25 at 9:26pm

Ensemble1698878795 said "Just bc you don't feel it doesn't mean it's there."

Just bc you feel it in this instance, doesn't mean it's there.

[SteveSanders]

Posted: 5/29/25 at 9:27pm

joevitus said: "The response "Patti will Patti" is more a "What do you expect?" than "isn't it wonderful!"

I'm an organizational development consultant and I've been thinking a lot about this situation through my professional lens, so forgive the dispassionate thinking that follows.

I agree that reacting in this manner is not an endorsement of what she is saying.

But on some levels, "Patti will Patti" also gives LuPone a pass, a courtesy a lot of other performers would not (and do not) receive. 

Who gets a pass and whose outspokenness is celebrated or condemned tends to reflect group beliefs and culture and how power and privilege operate within an organization or community.

I imagine many people here can think of someone in an organization they've been a part of at some point in their lives who got away with things that few other people would.  It's reasonable for someone to want to challenge that difference or at last want to understand why it exists.

And as far as the "what do you expect?" question, I would hope we could expect any performer as experienced and intelligent as LuPone to understand the historic and current inequities in theater, television, and movies, to appreciate that their personal and professional experiences may differ from their colleagues, and to speak in a manner that reflects these understandings.

We all have the ability to edit whatever we say in any setting to reflect the values we want people to associate with us as people and professionals.

 

Updated On: 5/29/25 at 09:27 PM

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 5/29/25 at 9:44pm

SteveSanders said: "joevitus said: "The response "Patti will Patti" is more a "What do you expect?" than "isn't it wonderful!"

I'm an organizational development consultant and I've been thinking a lot about this situation through my professional lens, so forgive the dispassionate thinking that follows.

I agree that reacting in this manner is not an endorsement of what she is saying.

But on some levels, "Patti will Patti" also gives LuPone a pass, a courtesy a lot of other performers would not (and do not) receive.

Who gets a pass and whose outspokenness is celebrated or condemned tends to reflect group beliefs and culture and how power and privilege operate within an organization or community.

I imagine many people here can think of someone in an organization they've been a part of at some point in their lives who got away with things that few other people would. It's reasonable for someone to want to challenge that difference or at last want to understand why it exists.

And as far as the "what do you expect?" question, I would hope we could expect any performer as experienced and intelligent as LuPone to understand the historic and current inequities in theater, television, and movies, to appreciate that their personal and professional experiences may differ from their colleagues, and to speak in a manner that reflects these understandings.

We all have the ability to edit whatever we say in any setting to reflect the values we want people to associate with us as people and professionals.

"

Thank you. Finally some sense on here. 

[Azúcar!]

Posted: 5/29/25 at 9:59pm

Steve makes sense .  You don’t.

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 5/29/25 at 10:07pm

Azúcar! said: "Steve makes sense . You don’t."

Was that suppose to hurt me? Steve obviously understood what I was saying amidst my anger. Some of you like gas lighting til a person breaks.

[ER765]

Posted: 5/29/25 at 10:10pm

Give it a REST. 

My God…

[abcd12]

Posted: 5/29/25 at 10:15pm

The irony of straight up attacking people in an attempt to make a point about the wrongness of someone else attacking people….

[MB124]

Posted: 5/29/25 at 10:19pm

Ensemble1698878795 said: "Azúcar! said: "Steve makes sense . You don’t."

Was that suppose to hurt me? Steve obviouslyunderstood what I was saying amidst my anger. Some of you like gas lighting til a person breaks."

If you’re going to “break” because of a BroadwayWorld thread, it might be time to log off. 

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 5/29/25 at 10:29pm

MB124 said: "Ensemble1698878795 said: "Azúcar! said: "Steve makes sense . You don’t."

Was that suppose to hurt me? Steve obviouslyunderstood what I was saying amidst my anger. Some of you like gas lighting til a person breaks."

If you’re going to “break” because of a BroadwayWorld thread, it might be time to log off."

It’s not the thread it’s the gaslighting from the people on it. 

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 5/29/25 at 10:30pm

For what it’s worth, here are my two cents (which is probably what it truly is worth):

While I don’t think Patti was inherently being racist, the “Patti is just being Patti” excuse is just unacceptable.

She is a grown woman, and as such she had a choice on how she was going to respond.

She made the wrong choice.

And unfortunately it’s biting her in the @ss.

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 5/29/25 at 10:30pm

ER765 said: "Give it a REST.

My God…"

You could too but here you are.

[Ensemble1698878795]

Posted: 5/29/25 at 10:32pm

abcd12 said: "The irony of straight up attacking people in an attempt to make a point about the wrongness of someone else attacking people…."

Attacking people or not backing down to a mob of ignorance? Bc other folks are actually agreeing with my same points. I may not articulate it in the way you want, but that doesn’t make the point invalid. 

[DanS3]

Posted: 5/29/25 at 10:36pm

Updated On: 5/29/25 at 10:36 PM

[DanS3]

Posted: 5/29/25 at 11:09pm

Patti LuPone has a huge ego, and is frankly, a bully.  I mean to this day (30 plus years later) she still thinks it's funny to diss Madonna's performance in Evita.  Sure, that was not an Oscar winner, but, come on, girl, give it a rest.

And the "isn't it a beautiful day" comment was completely unnecessary.  Personally, I can't even listen to Patti LuPone sing "Everything's Coming Up Roses", but, cannot get enough of Audra's version.

And, there is this.  PERFECT timing.

Take that Patti!
 

[BJR]

Posted: 5/29/25 at 11:25pm

Y'all get how just taking sides and dissing Patti isn't exactly demonstrating how she was wrong to escalate things, right?

It proves the point of every side, but only escalating things. 

Personally, I think Patti's Rose was the best I've ever seen, but also think she can be cruel and unnecessarily destructive and self-destructive. 

[joevitus]

Posted: 5/30/25 at 1:24am

SteveSanders said: "joevitus said: "The response "Patti will Patti" is more a "What do you expect?" than "isn't it wonderful!"

I'm an organizational development consultant and I've been thinking a lot about this situation through my professional lens, so forgive the dispassionate thinking that follows.

I agree that reacting in this manner is not an endorsement of what she is saying.

But on some levels, "Patti will Patti" also gives LuPone a pass, a courtesy a lot of other performers would not (and do not) receive.

Who gets a pass and whose outspokenness is celebrated or condemned tends to reflect group beliefs and culture and how power and privilege operate within an organization or community.

I imagine many people here can think of someone in an organization they've been a part of at some point in their lives who got away with things that few other people would. It's reasonable for someone to want to challenge that difference or at last want to understand why it exists.

And as far as the "what do you expect?" question, I would hope we could expect any performer as experienced and intelligent as LuPone to understand the historic and current inequities in theater, television, and movies, to appreciate that their personal and professional experiences may differ from their colleagues, and to speak in a manner that reflects these understandings.

We all have the ability to edit whatever we say in any setting to reflect the values we want people to associate with us as people and professionals.

"

I'm not surt what "give her a pass" means in this context, as if any of us are in a positon to effectivey reprimand her. I mean, please. Who has been able to? Ever?

And look, there's a chain of events here. It didn't start with Patti just going off on Keisha and Audra (and Glenn, but that keeps being ignored because it doesn't fit a certain narrative). Patti made a request for sound levels to be lowered--which I am certain she would have done were the show Hell's Kitchen, The Who's Tommy or Tristan and Isolde. That's really is just Patti. And I have no doubt that if Audra made a similar request while a very loud show was playing next to the quiet comedy she was appearing in, that would likewise have been acceded to. 

But Keisha made it about race, and that was--is, in my opinion--out of place. Totally fine to call Patti out for diva behavior if Keisha wanted to, but it wasn't about "Black people have to be quiet for the white people." It. Just. Wasn't.

That said, I think Patti's response in the New Yorker was stupid, thoughtless, egotistical and cruel. She shouldn't behave that way. She sounds like a loon, and she's the one who comes off badly here. 

I also think she doesn't give a flying you-know-what what I or anyone else thinks about it, so going on a tirade agaist something that isn't going to chance--and isn't about race at all, but about Patti's ego in relation to literally the entire population of earth--is a colossal waste of time. And trying to make this a racial issue, and then attacking everyone who won't see it as a racial issue, and painting everyone with the same broad brushstokes of insult/condescension (I am not referring to you here, I hope that's clear), does nothing but alienate all the people here who, yes, think, as in so many instances, it would have been better if Patti had not said what she said. 

Updated On: 5/30/25 at 01:24 AM

[binau]

Posted: 5/30/25 at 2:17am

People are taking the phrase "Patti is being Patti" out of context. It's being used here specifically by many to talk about causality not to excuse her behaviour - that what is happening here is a result of Patti's individual disposition which she indiscriminately applies to everyone regardless of race or gender - and in fact her targets are primarily white people and often white men. 

No one is defending Patti's behaviour - most people agree she is outrageous and well a bitch. The specific issue is that people who have reacted to this lack precision in their assessment of what is happening - and instead of everyone being able to mutually accept that she is outrageous and a bitch, we have some people that want to suggest that this is racism and white supremacy. This is what is being challenged. 

I even agree that there is probably something privileged about Patti being able to carry on with her antics and if any black actress tried the same thing the reaction might be different - but this is a separate issue and discussion to the question at hand, which is on whether racism motivated Patti’s comments towards Kecia and Audra. No matter what mental gymnastics we keep getting back the fact of the matter is it’s objectively true that she treats people the same regardless of race. Therefore, there is no racism. 
 

I don’t and will never accept the idea that treating people equally regardless of race can be racist. It’s the opposite of it. 

Updated On: 5/30/25 at 02:17 AM