New Tony Awards Category is crap...- Page 2

[Calvin]

Posted: 9/26/05 at 3:25pm

"Congratulations Brooke Shields and Rosie O'Donnell. Now maybe you'll get the 'recognition' you 'deserve'?"

Rosie will not be eligible, according to the article, because she won't be staying with the show long enough.

[Kringas]

Posted: 9/26/05 at 3:27pm

Kringas, my point is ...do you think that it's okay for categories to have "second chances"....

Yes, I suppose I do, though to split hairs, the category isn't really a "second-chance" for anyone. It's a first chance for someone stepping into a role.

There are other forms of recognition. So what if they are better and don't win an award?

Nothing. But I never took this to mean that this award was implying that the replacement was necessarily better than the originator. The people nominated aren't competing against those who originally played the role, they'll be competing against others in the same category.

I believe that when somone is cast in a role, and are able to qualify for THAT, then that's it...no take backs, no fill-ins, no second chances...

I'm not quite sure what you mean here. What's being taken back and who is being given a second chance?

[NYC_or_Bust]

Posted: 9/26/05 at 3:48pm

It's really one of those things that is harder to explain than to see in your own mind...

The second chance offered is for the CHARACTER not the actor. It's kinda like saying, "Well we didn't like how ______ played the role, she/he wasn't good enough to win a Tony, but your performance, _______________, was much better. So, we'd like to give you a Tony for stepping in and doing much better than they did."

What they're trying to do now is what happens over a period of years or decades...Someone plays a role, say...Tyne Daly for Rose...lets say she doesn't win the award...next time Bernadette Peters plays the role "stepping in" for the last Rose and getting a chance to be nominated...over a period of years, that's okay..to do it on back to back seasons...No

[Kringas]

Posted: 9/26/05 at 4:17pm

The second chance offered is for the CHARACTER not the actor. But characters aren't nominated for Tonys. Actors are.

It's kinda like saying, "Well we didn't like how ______ played the role, she/he wasn't good enough to win a Tony, but your performance, _______________, was much better. So, we'd like to give you a Tony for stepping in and doing much better than they did."

I still don't get where you're coming from. Just because one originates a role in a show doesn't mean one should automatically expect a nomination. It will be the same the replacement category.

And by your logic, would you be okay with someone winning a Tony as a replacement if the originator also won a Tony for the same role?

Updated On: 9/26/05 at 04:17 PM

[NYC_or_Bust]

Posted: 9/26/05 at 4:23pm

Simple, I don't believe in a TONY for replacements, regardless of if the originator won or for that fact, was even nominated.

[best12bars]

Posted: 9/26/05 at 5:14pm

This new category is extremely political (as I said on another thread).

Why is there still no recognition for Best Sound or Sound Design? We have Lighting, Sets, Costumes, Director, Orchestrations... but no Sound.

Why?... Because there's no money in it. Who cares, right? We'd rather give out an award to someone we can publicize. An actor that people might know, to help bring in more business. I hardly feel that replacement performers are the poor unsung heroes of the world.

Yet if you can't hear the performers or the music drowns them out, or a thunder storm off stage sounds more like a herd of buffalo coming at you from the wrong side, you'd notice, right? Sound design can help make or break a show!

(And, no, I'm not a sound designer... I just like and appreciate good sound design when I see a play or musical.) I'm just amazed and disgusted by the "priorities" being displayed by the American Theatre Wing.

[NYC_or_Bust]

Posted: 9/26/05 at 7:00pm

I agree, and especially since the tech side of the awards aren't even shown on CBS...would it really kill the american theatre wing to add a category for sound?

[BSoBW2]

Posted: 9/26/05 at 7:04pm

"I don't know anyone leaving a show that says "Wow, (stars name) was amazing, but that ensemble....YIKES""

Then meet me.

Megan Hilty - amazing. Ensemble of Wicked, horrible.

[JonnyV]

Posted: 9/26/05 at 7:10pm

I dunno... it might be fun to see Patti LuPone on stage accepting an award again (she'll totally win the first one - lend it credence blah... blah... blah...). Give one to Christina Applegate or Glen Close and I'm coming after someone. Did you hear the rumor that she beat out Barbra Streisand for the movie Sunset Boulevard?!?

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 9/26/05 at 7:19pm

Lupone will be eligible for Best Actress this year, not the new category. She's originating a role in a new production, not replacing anyone in an old one.

[JonnyV]

Posted: 9/26/05 at 7:24pm

Thanks for the clarification. I was way off on that one! So, that might make Cyndi Lauper eligible when Patti leaves. That'll be a weird evening of Tony's.

Posted: 9/26/05 at 7:28pm

has Cindy ever won Grammy?

[JonnyV]

Posted: 9/26/05 at 7:31pm

My gay lover says Yes.. for Time After Time... and I don't doubt his weird knowledge of music awards!

[slimandslam]

Posted: 9/26/05 at 8:03pm

Cyndi Lauper's Grammy was for Best New Artist in 1984.

I found this by searching at grammys.org. It's so easy to find these answers when you're already online...

[MargoChanning]

Posted: 9/26/05 at 8:29pm

While sound designers certainly deserve to be honored, there's a problem with determining the proper winner for that category in most years -- unlike the other design awards where it's fairly easy to see the nature of the accomplishment (sets, costumes and lighting are easy to SEE and evaluate), oftentimes the best sound design is the least noticeable. Many times (ESPECIALLY for non-musical plays) if a sound designer has really done a fantastic job, it's not obvious that there's any amplification in theatre at all.

An acquaintance of mine has been the sound designer for a dozen Broadway shows and several dozen off-Broadway and regional productions and what's remarkable about the shows he designs is that you can rarely tell that the shows have any amplification at all and that the sound seems so natural and purely acoustic that most in the audience think that the actors are being heard unaided. There was actually on debate on BWW last season as to whether there was any amplification for one of the shows he designed -- I knew there was because I saw and spoke to him at a preview performance where he was there making subtle adjustments to levels of the floor mikes and directional mikes he'd hidden around the stage.

Also, he's told me that some theatres are a LOT more difficult to do sound for than others because of differences in acoustics. Should the awards reflect doing a great job in an acoustically challenged theatre? Would the 750 Tonys voters be able to fairly judge one sound design from another?

It reminds me of how for several years back in the 1950s and 1960s the Tonys had categories for Best Conductor and Best Stage Technician. Now, while both professions deserve to be honored, as a practical matter, the fact is most voters lack the skill to determine what makes one conductor better than another, and unless one is sitting backstage and/or in the lighting booth at every show on Broadway, I frankly have NO IDEA how one determines the "Best" stage technician.

Similarly, I don't think that most of the 750 voters are equipped to judge the best sound technician, when the sound at most shows is very professional, with none truly standing out from the others in a given year.

[Mister Matt]

Posted: 9/26/05 at 8:35pm

"A least when it comes to Broadway and Tony Awards, I personally don't believe in second chances for a performer in a show that qualified LAST season"

Once again, apples and oranges. The performer is not getting a second schance and neither is the show, since the show itself is not eligible for another Tony. Regardless, the category exists and actors will get a shot at a Tony for an award-winning performance that the Tonys have previously ignored. Bravo! I'm all for it and I see nothing in the world wrong with the idea. Why is it only the original cast should be recognized? Rarely does the show itself undergo changes drastic enough to recall the same show for any other category, yet casts change draastically from season to season, yet only the original cast is ever deemed worthy of a Tony. It's ridiculous. For that matter, why not just close every show when the first original cast member leaves since ayone who follows will no longer matter?

[Fosse76]

Posted: 9/26/05 at 8:44pm

Well, CCBB definitely SHOULD NOT win any sound design awards. It's so loud and static-y that you don't know if the actors are speaking (or singing) or if they are just lip-syncing to a recording! It was awful.

[NYC_or_Bust]

Posted: 9/26/05 at 8:56pm

This new category has nothing to do with a performer....Its money, matt...So many people on this board totally changed their tunes when the word TONY was mentioned....before this, it was all "stunt casting" to them..by adding the words "TONY AWARD", that's supposed to make everything okay? Hardly.

And to answer your question why a show doesnt close after a lead leaves....MONEY...Performers keep the shows alive in spirit. MONEY keeps a show running....Audience approval/applause doesn't pay the production costs.

[Born2cthelightsofbway]

Posted: 9/26/05 at 9:00pm

I have to admit, I like the New Tony category. I never thought it was fair that just because someone wasn't fortunate enough to create the role, doesn't mean that they aren't just as good as the original and they don't deserve the tony.

[ray-andallthatjazz86]

Posted: 9/26/05 at 11:36pm

I hate the political implications (as best12bars so well puts it)of this award but still when you look the artistic side of it, I think it's awesome for people like Charlotte D'Amboise, Fierstein, and Brooke Shields that have substituted original casts so well.

[alterego]

Posted: 9/27/05 at 12:50am

I echo 'theatreboy33' thoughts about how producers will now (more than ever) have to keep shows in tip top shape. But with added categories how much longer will the evening go? Will they have to sell hampers in the foyer to help the audience quell their hunger pains? They may have to have have a separate ceremony luncheon or whatever like they do for the Oscars to cover all the awards.

[Radioactiveduck]

Posted: 9/27/05 at 2:12am

I think the category is late in coming. So many spectacular performances that should have been Tony-winning got glazed over, because they were only 15 years old when the musical first opened umpteen-hundred years ago.

Hugh Panaro as the Phantom...Best Performance by an Actor Recreating a Role. C'mon!

[Whiteguy2088]

Posted: 9/27/05 at 2:22am

I think their should be ensemble and also replacement stars...I mean yeah its great to honor those who originated the roles...but what about the stars who come take a new approach to a character replacing the lead? Its long overdue if you ask me.

[best12bars]

Posted: 9/27/05 at 10:24am

Margo -- I agree that an award for Best Sound design might be challenging for a committee to judge, but I think they're up to the challenge, as much as they're up to the challenge of judging the music & orchestrations for a show, which they also can't "see." Some pit orchestras have six musicians, some have 25. So even that isn't a level "playing field." They vote for what is the most effective to them (hopefully). As far as sound, the voters would know in advance what shows had been designed with amplification, mixing and audio effects. And I think the fact that a given production appeared to have "natural" acoustics could only add to its impressiveness. Academy Award voters have judged two Sound categories for many years now, without knowing the technical aspects or limitations of the movie (i.e., was it done in mono, stereo, 6-track Dolby, Digital Surround, THX, etc.). They all compete for the same award, regardless.

As far as certain theatres being acoustically challenged, I don't think it's any more unfair than certain theatres who compete for the Best Sets or Lighting awards with their varying wing space or fly space. There are 100+ year old theatres, competing right alongside relatively brand new ones. All of varying sizes. The modern amenities of a given theatre vary drastically, and that will always be the case for any of the technical awards.

I appreciate your time and thought into this, but I strongly believe the award is long overdue (at least for the past 15 years or so), given that virtually EVERY Broadway show (play or musical) has sound design involved in it today. There are no solid excuses remaining as to why recognition for their crucial efforts is still being overlooked.

...Oh, yeah, except that there's no money in it, as I said in my other post.

P.S. -- My hat is off to your friend who does this! Hopefully he'll be recognized for his contribution to live theatre someday.

Updated On: 9/27/05 at 10:24 AM

[Miki]

Posted: 9/27/05 at 1:34pm

Yeah it may be political but that's the nature of a lot of award shows. It doesn't keep me up at night though. Having said that, I for one think it's a great idea to finally have this category. Too many great performances have been passed over through the years.