Next To Normal (tomorrow night, 2/22)- Page 3

[snl89]

Posted: 2/23/08 at 5:45pm

Add in "I've Been" and you have the perfect score

so what do you say, wanna start a petition to have that song back in the show? :P Seriously, I LOVE it so much. And I just can't stop thinking "man oh man how Brian would rock it so hard".

[adamgreer]

Posted: 2/23/08 at 5:51pm

This is bizarre, but the song that has been stuck in my head is "Just Another Day."

I don't know why, since I don't even remember it being my favorite song from the show (that would be I Miss the Mountains).

[snl89]

Posted: 2/23/08 at 5:53pm

^Just Another Day is SO catchy though. That's actually one I should add to my list of "gets stuck in my head on a regular basis" songs :)

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 2/23/08 at 5:54pm

That's one of the four or five that get stuck in my head really often.

[snl89]

Posted: 2/23/08 at 6:00pm

I'd like to just throw out there that the most FUN songs, I think, are Costco and It's Gonna Be Good. Granted Costco really shouldn't amuse me as much as it does because like..she's having a mental breakdown. But it's just so FUNNY, and Alice does it so brilliantly! And It's Gonna Be Good I mostly just love for Brian/Dan's "Do I look great? I am!" because the way he says it is SO cute haha. But it's also just a really adorable, fun song. It makes you like.. want to bounce. haha

Updated On: 2/23/08 at 06:00 PM

[adamgreer]

Posted: 2/23/08 at 6:02pm

Costco is the one song I dislike in the show. It's not clear what's happening, and just doesn't work.

[snl89]

Posted: 2/23/08 at 6:05pm

yeah see I USED to not like Costco at all. But I love it now lol.

I do know what you mean though. I think if you don't go into the show knowing the story, when it gets to that point you're kind like "WTF?" lol. But at the same time, I'm not so sure that's a bad thing- because.. I think the whole point is that you're SUPPOSED to be going "WTF?" so that when you finally realize what's going on, it's made even more powerful. Or at least, that's kind of the way I view it :)

Updated On: 2/23/08 at 06:05 PM

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 2/23/08 at 6:07pm

I love it. I think that's because I grew up in the suburbs with parents who bought everything in bulk. The song is so funny.

Updated On: 2/23/08 at 06:07 PM

[snl89]

Posted: 2/23/08 at 6:09pm

lol, exactly! I swear, my parents practically used to LIVE in Costco. Now I live in Vermont and there's no Costco anywhere near us, but having grown up in the suburbs in Long Island NY? omg. It's like "need something? go to Costco and buy in bulk!"

Updated On: 2/23/08 at 06:09 PM

[East Village]

Posted: 2/23/08 at 7:37pm

Please don't hate me for what I'm about to say. Ben Brantley warned in the Times that folks' reaction to this musical might be a bit bi-polar -- so here goes my flip-side review. And please remember that I've already said I was deeply touched by this show.

However, what's wrong with N2N is that it fails to address that there is a world outside the teenage, musical theater sensibility of StageDoor Manor. Yes, N2N is staged really, really well. But could someone please inform Mr. Grief, and book writer Brian Yorkey, that there is another profession that exists outside musical theater -- and its called psychiatry.

Mr. Greif, I'm know you're a mensch, but not-for-nothing, our tribe knows about psychiatrists. Your show needs to be smart. And sadly, Next to Normal isn't.

Frankly a show like KYLE XY shows more understanding of the psychotherapeutic situation than what you presented on stage. Francis effin' Farmer's psychiatrist doled out more compassion and understanding than what poor Alice Ripley got.

So the show might be next to perfect, and filled with hummable, singable tunes for musical theater fans. But this is New York -- its the most literate city on the planet. I'm fine with broadstrokes and generalizations when they serve thought provoking ends. But what Next to Normal presents about psychiatry wouldn't even fly in a bad movie of the week. For that matter, even the most gross out horror films have served the profession better.

God, I don't mean to be wielding a sledgehammer here. I've already said I found much in the show to be admired -- and this is all said in the spirit of heavy handed criticism.

There is so much dead-on perfect about the mechanics of this show. I just hope the creators spend some time exercising the part of an artists' brain that is suppose to have something to say. If they do that, Next 2 Normal could - and should - end up on a bigger stage next year and be something more than next to perfect.






Updated On: 2/23/08 at 07:37 PM

[KChenowethfan]

Posted: 2/23/08 at 7:51pm

There is no song called "Next to Normal". The one that contains that lyric is called "Everything."

In any case, many of them get stuck in my head. The weakest songs (and plot points for that matter) involve Natalie and Henry's budding romance. I get why its there, but I just don't think it should be so heavily featured.

[snl89]

Posted: 2/23/08 at 9:13pm

There is no song called "Next to Normal". The one that contains that lyric is called "Everything."

Seriously? on all the audios I have it's called Next to Normal! haha. Very interesting... I guess people just assumed it was called Next to Normal!

Updated On: 2/23/08 at 09:13 PM

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 2/23/08 at 9:18pm

That's because the audio labels for any of the new songs are just guesses. With no song list in the Playbill, how would be people have any way to know what it was actually called? Not faulting the exclusion of a song list, I'm sure there's a valid reason, I just mean, well, why wouldn't they be guesses?

As of the press performances, there was still no song list, no. I don't know if there is one now, but yes, the song is called "Everything."

Updated On: 2/23/08 at 09:18 PM

[snl89]

Posted: 2/23/08 at 9:27pm

just curious, how do we know now that the song is called "Everything"? cause there's still no song list right?



and East Village-
although I don't necessarily COMPLETELY agree on the extent to which the phsychiatric aspects of the show are not strong, I def understand where you're coming from. And I def think I feel pretty much the same way as you in that, BECAUSE the show has so many great things going for it, I WOULD love them to work on those weaker parts of the show.

It's hard though.. because, I don't know about you, but I know I personally can't quite put my finger on how I think things could be made better without having to change the entire book. In fact, I have trouble even pinpointing exactly what IS weak about the book- I just know that it does have weak spots. Out of curiosity, what are the parts you find most unrealistic?

For me, I think the only thing that really seems a bit too far fetched is the complete memory loss after ECT. Granted her memory comes back, which I think is realistic, but I DO see why people would have a problem with the whole "Song of Forgetting" part of the show if they've known people with ECT and they know that that would pretty much never happen. As far as the other parts of the show, I don't necessarily think there's a whole lot else that's REALLY unrealistic, but I'm curious to know if there are any other weak parts for you as far as the book is concerned.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 2/23/08 at 9:32pm

I know someone who is involved with the show, and it was referred to as "Everything" in a discussion we had. That's what it's called. Just because you don't know what it's called doesn't mean nobody does.

Updated On: 2/23/08 at 09:32 PM

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 2/23/08 at 9:33pm

If you ask the right people, they can tell you. Instead of asking for a picture at the stagedoor, why not ask the actor about that?

Updated On: 2/23/08 at 09:33 PM

[snl89]

Posted: 2/23/08 at 9:41pm

I know someone who is involved with the show, and it was referred to as "Everything" in a discussion we had. That's what it's called. Just because you don't know what it's called doesn't mean nobody does.

oh no I was just curious! Because like.. up till tonight I'd never heard it referred to as Everything. I trust that that's right though :)

[armageddoni]

Posted: 2/23/08 at 10:14pm

"Add in "I've Been" and you have the perfect score"

A-fricken'-men. I miss that song so much. *cries*

[snl89]

Posted: 2/23/08 at 10:36pm

^Seriously, we need a petition I tell you!!

Updated On: 2/23/08 at 10:36 PM

[East Village]

Posted: 2/23/08 at 11:07pm

Oh SNL, I'm so glad you responded because I didn't want you to be mad -- I completely felt like I was kicking a dog by criticizing the show. And thanks to you, I've gotten to hear the music again.

What did I find unrealistic? Well here we go re-writing musicals. Basically, the entire role of the psychiatrist is wrong.

This woman would have had a terribly understanding psychiatrist -- so there certainly could have been room for a more intimate portrayal of their relationship. There isn't a good shrink anywhere who wouldn't have felt some sense that they were betraying their patient by recommending ECT. And frankly, no one throws around ECT anymore like they did in the 50s or 60s. There's a lot of drama there. So maybe I see a Bruno Bettelheim figure in that role -- or even a Bibi Anderson in "I never promised you a Rose Garden." (Hey even Dr. Melfi would have been better -- I'm kidding.)

I don't think the above is a total re-write of the book. Just re-writing the schlock, rock and roll character of the evil psychiatrist who more closely resembles the "Little Shop of Horrors" dentist rather than a fair representation of the psychiatric profession as it exists in 2008. We could see a modern psychotherapy taking place on that stage -- experience its successes, its reversals, its limits, and ultimately the heart wrenching decision to try ECT when all else has failed.

I loved this show. It has a lot of intensity -- and a fair amount of tripiness (but I won't reveal any spoilers.) But it cops out with the subject matter that would have elevated it to the status of high art. We should leave the theater asking serious questions about mental illness; not making comparisons with "Rent" and "Little Shop", rather thinking more about Ingmar Bergman and mental health in the 21st century.

I hope and pray that's where they're going with this because the plot devices, the mechanics and staging are all so clever. Plus the show has a great heart. It just needs to ask more intellectual questions about the nature of madness, the brain and modern psychiatry to make it the work of art -- and truly complex drama -- that it deserves to be. All that could be achieved by turning that schlocky, plot device of a character into a real psychiatrist asking real questions of his patient -- and of the audience. Updated On: 2/23/08 at 11:07 PM

[jordangirl]

Posted: 2/23/08 at 11:43pm

East Village ~ I see your point, but they do make it clear that this is one of those extreme cases where ECT is in fact indicated. It's not thrown out as a first solution ~ drugs haven't worked, talk therapy hasn't worked. What the doctor says is actually true ~ with her history of drug resistance to simply send her home with or without a prescription would in fact be asking her to try suicide again.

That said... :)

Couple of oops moments tonight. (I guess spoilerish)

1) Alice broke the chair in "You Don't Know" the second time she set it down. One of the front legs just like fell down.

2) In the scene with the pictures, with the pics of Natalie's sophomore piano recital, rather than saying "stuck in the car" Alice accidentally said "stuck in the bathroom". She had the presence of mind to say bathroom again in that one and then she used car for the gymnastics meet. It was really smooth, so unless you knew they were usually reversed, you wouldn't have known it.

It was excellent tonight ~ even if the audience was a tad subdued.

[luvtheEmcee]

Posted: 2/23/08 at 11:49pm

I completely felt like I was kicking a dog by criticizing the show.

You are allowed to be critical of things you like, you know.

[snl89]

Posted: 2/23/08 at 11:54pm

ahhh, I def see what you mean! And you know, the nice thing about that is that.. it actually DOES kind of all come back to Dr. Madden. And hey, if they could almost entirely re-write Natalies character from how she was back in the Feeling Electric days to how she is now in Next to Normal, there's no reason they couldn't do a big re-write of Dr. Madden's character too, right? :)


Although.. see.. the thing is I don't necessarily think Dr. Madden is completely portrayed as the "evil phsychiatrist" type. Maybe I'm just too attached to his "rockstar" side because I find Diana's hallucinations of his rockstar..ness... really amusing haha. But like.. I DO think that once you get past that there is some depth to the character. I agree though, it could be even stronger. I think the main thing they could do (and should do) is re-work the scene where Dr. Madden is telling them about the ECT. Because I totally see what you mean: ECT, though it seems like it's pretty effective and safe these days, is still quite a big deal. And they make that clear through the REST of the characters, but Dr. Madden's character really doesn't seem to really think too much of it. So I think they could just.. make him a little bit more sympathetic to the fear that the family has of Diana getting the treatment, and a little more assuring in his explaining it to them, so that you DO get that it's a big deal for him to be recommending it. But I do also agree with jordangirl in that the path leading UP to his recommendation of ETC is pretty well fleshed out.

As for the other parts of the show, there are parts that I would keep in terms of his character (again, I personally really like the whole rockstar hallucination thing, as well as the sillyness of the "My Phsychopharmocolagist and I" scene, just because.. they're in Diana's mind, so I feel like you can get away with it being unrealistic. Plus it adds needed lightheartedness to the show over all). But there are also parts I would change (namely, as you said, making him a bit more sympathetic and really showing his eagerness to help her). And that could easily be done, actually, through some simple wording changes and stuff within some of the scenes.

The more I think about it though, the more you're definitely right in that Dr. Madden is by far the least developed and humanized character of the bunch. The rest of the characters (save for maybe Gabe, for obvious reasons) are so beautifully fleshed out and they have real character arcs throughout the show. but Dr. Madden, right now, really does seem to be there simply as kind of a plot device rather than another actual character. And I think that improving that could make a HUGE difference. And like I said, it's just a matter of little changes in the dialague and wording throughout the show.

And on another note, I still stand by adding "I've Been" back in because I think it really fleshes out Dan's character arc, and it kind of necassery. I mean Dan's character is developed enough without it, but with it, his character is even more easy to sympathize with.

Updated On: 2/23/08 at 11:54 PM

[East Village]

Posted: 2/23/08 at 11:55pm

I'm so jealous. Would loved to have seen the show again tonight. If you couldn't tell, I'm a sucker for anything psychiatric.

We haven't even mentioned Aaron Tveit. I've never seen him before. That kid is great -- and what fun freaking role that must be to play. Ditto for Jennifer Damiano. I kind'ov wish her boyfriend was a little more interesting. I kept thinking that's what Michael Greif must have looked like as a teenager:)

[jordangirl]

Posted: 2/23/08 at 11:59pm

Oh Aaron's definitely great. He had a group of friends there tonight that make some kind of sound that sounds like booing ~ but it's not. It's "their thing" ~ Alice said he'd warned them that it was NOT booing. LOL.