Norm Lewis as Javert- Page 3

[theminutepast]

Posted: 7/7/06 at 11:49pm

As I said before, I like the idea of Norm Lewis playing Javert, but if you're arguing against the historically accurate point of view and that roles should be color-blind, does that mean a white woman could play Celie in The Color Purple?

[TonyaFanatic]

Posted: 7/7/06 at 11:50pm

Thomas Alexandre Dumas was general under Napoleon.....and he was black. Chevalier de Saint Georges. led an 1000 man army in the French Revolution. Jean Baptiste Belley and Jean Baptiste Mills were members of Parliament during what?.......the French Revolution.

Black people really can have positions of power in 1830s France! wow! questions answered.

Updated On: 7/7/06 at 11:50 PM

[jasonf]

Posted: 7/7/06 at 11:53pm

Tonyafanatic -- seriously, calm down. You have this tone like you need to defend yourself and I'm simply asking the question because I didn't know. Your examples helped answer the question, and I appreciate that. There's no need to be so defensive.

[TonyaFanatic]

Posted: 7/7/06 at 11:59pm

lol, whatever. im not being defensive. what would would i be defending? did i do something wrong?

[jasonf]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 12:01am

You're answering sarcastically like I'm levelling an accusation at you or something.


"Black people really can have positions of power in 1830s France! wow! questions answered."

That's not sarcastic? I agree with you on this and you're answering like I'm attacking you.

[ThankstoPhantom]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 12:01am

I think he felt you were defending black French leaders...which isn't a bad thing.

[jasonf]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 12:07am

It wasn't even that - it was an attitude like I had said "There weren't any black leaders, so we shouldn't have any on stage" -- that wasn't what I said at all. I simply asked IF there were any because I didn't know.

Additionally, I've been saying Norm should play the part since my first post on this thread - so we're on the same side of the argument!

[TonyaFanatic]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 12:13am

well did i single u out? i don think i did. if it doesnt apply to u then why are YOU being so defensive? but hell yea im being a little sarcastic and aggressive because im annoyed. this whole thread annoys and offends me. sorry just being honest.

p.s. and no a white woman couldn't play Celie because her race is integral to the story. it is about the plight of a BLACK. ABUSED.WOMAN.

[jasonf]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 12:16am

You TOTALLY singled me out! Look at the post RIGHT after I asked the question!!!

[TonyaFanatic]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 12:30am

o ok i kno what ur talking about. i said what i said. you said what you said. it was over. at least it was for me. don be so petty.

[jasonf]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 12:31am

all right - going to smash my head against the table, then go to sleep. Have a good night :)

[HamletWasBipolar]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 12:33am

The question really had nothing do about black,white,yellow,red, or pink. I believe someone mentioned the suspension of belief. If I saw a Chinese Henry Higgins, I would have a hard time suspending that belief. Could there have benn a Chinese linquistic professor in Victorian London? Probably...but would I buy him being the target of Eliza's slippers? No. Thats just me. Im a purist. There is a reason they call it non-traditional casting. Even they know they are going outside of the box. Some people may like it, I personally don't. I saw Les Miserables the first week it opened on Broadway with the original cast and I have seen it grow like a commercial monster since. I liked the traditional original. Some people like Shakespeare set in the Vietnam War. I don't. My personal belief is it if it aint broke, dont fix it. The show was great the first time I saw it, and since then its been a shuffling of names for a box office draw, taking away from the orignal concept that put it on the map. I've seen Ricky Martin and Lea Salonga and I didnt like it. It's like adding a kid in the last year of a television sitcom gasping for air. Like I said Im a purist....not saying I am right and anybody else is wrong. I'm just an actor with his opinion.

[sydney23]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 12:37am

Thank you Tonya for mentioning the Dumas and other history. I was about to make the point but decided to scroll down through nearly 3 pages of silliness first just to make sure no one had brought it up - but what took you so long?

interestingly - no one seemed to even register what you said! i'm afraid everybody is viewing Les Miz through an American prism - they have absolutely no clue that black people have a variety of different histories in other parts of the world. Yes, Javert most definitely could have been a black man. And - of course - so could have Valjean!

[TonyaFanatic]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 12:38am

"....not saying I am right and anybody else is wrong. I'm just an actor with his opinion."

youre just an idiot who thinks race is an issue when it comes to casting. "i jus don like it" puh-leeze buddy.

and sydney i dont like to post b4 ive read ALL the garbage, but yea this guy is really trying to sugar-coat this board into a question on historical accuracy, when he should just admit it is him having a problem with seeing "traditional" roles cast with "non-traditional" actors. kiss my fist!

Updated On: 7/8/06 at 12:38 AM

[HamletWasBipolar]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 12:44am

As the orginal poster, I will admit that I did not know that history and I was under the impression that it was historically inaccurate. But the original question could be used using a chinaman as Javert...it really had nothing to do with the actual race, but the fact that I understood it to be non-traditional. All that crap about not thinking the black man could have the power...please..why must things always go that route. It had nothing to do with that...but more a question as to what people thought about non-traditional casting. Hell, I make mistakes with caucasian history...all that posturing in the pulpit, however...totally and unfounded.

[TonyaFanatic]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 12:49am

"chinaman as Javert"


are you serious? chinaman? do people really still say things like this? wow. im done with this....come on out the closet, Adolf.

[C is for Company]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 12:50am

I think that the original poster had everything come down to the accuracy, while also taking in the image. In no way did he degrade the fact that a black man is playing Javert, simply the fact that he was unsure of the accuracy and disagreed with that. However, with the rectification of the situation with Tonya answering this question, the topic should already be dead by now.
Question answered, case (bitching) closed.

[Lavieboheme3090]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 12:51am

You say that I couldn’t suspend belief for a character such as Henry Higgins and maybe that is a legitimate argument for THAT character. Looking at Les Miz, however, you have to take the characters into consideration. They are so universal that everyone can connect to them, and that is what has made this book and musical so popular, that everyone can say that in some point in their life that have been or have known one of those characters. Does that make any since? It is so easy for me to see any of these characters played by a person of any race, because all of these characters CAN be anyone.

[HamletWasBipolar]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 12:55am

Tanya ..for gods sake.. MY PARTNER IS AFRICAN AMERICAN...and he didnt know that history either. Calling me Adolph was immature and hateful..check yourself in the mirror, sistah before you start playing the race crap. You obvioulsy cant have a conversation with the close minded...which is what leads to real racism.

[TonyaFanatic]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 1:02am

alright, calling you Adolf was uncalled for, but it was funny. I didnt think before i typed that. my apologies. but in NOOOOOOOO way does your partner's race make your comments any less offensive or totally change the possibility of your racist opinions (whether you think they are racist or not).

p.s.- calling me "sistah" was just as bad as calling you Adolf.

Updated On: 7/8/06 at 01:02 AM

[HamletWasBipolar]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 1:07am

Tonya what I am saying is that I didnt like Rosie O'Donnel in Fiddler on the Roof. I had a problem believing the irish chick was Jewish, shoot me. That's all. No racism.My partner is laughing right now for you calling me racist. Im not even going to get into the community service projects I do. Usually when someone sees something in someone else they dont like, psychologists say that they themselves have that defect. Food for thought

[TheEnchantedHunter]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 1:14am

Norm Lewis is wrong for Javert not because of the color of his skin but by the fact that he has never been a particularly compelling performer and, more importantly, conveys little of the complexity or depth necessary for a tormented character like Javert.



Allison Mackenzie
Peyton Place, New Hampshire


Updated On: 7/9/06 at 01:14 AM

[Over_the_Moon]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 1:17am

This whole arguement is pretty silly.

Colorblind casting for the sake of being politically correct is not okay.

No one complains about the lack of diversity in other physical aspects, do they?

Aside from Tracy Turnblad, what leading roles on Broadway are played by anyone above a size 4?

Granted it's not Broadway, but to be a Rockette, you have to be what, 5'6" at least, so they can all look the same, right? Why not make all the Rockettes white so they can look uniform?

This, "I'm offended by blah blah blah" really needs to stop. Stop looking for excuses to be pitied.

[TonyaFanatic]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 1:22am

i dont need anyone's pity. i was just stating a fact about how i felt sweetheart. your pity or anyone else's means zilch to me. i found this thread offensive and wanted to voice it. thats my right. just like you voiced your opinion about not having enough fat girl roles on broadway.

[Over_the_Moon]

Posted: 7/8/06 at 1:31am

Someone that I'm not familiar with at all calling me "sweetheart" is offensive to me. It's condescending and I don't have to stand for it.