Norm Lewis as Javert — Page 2

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#26

re: Norm Lewis as Javert

Posted: 7/7/06 at 5:53pm

No director in the world is brave enough (or crazy enough) to try that. I would have less problems with an all-female cast of 1776 than having a black man play Ruteldge - it just COMPLETELY defies the entire point of the character. Aside from it being an obvious stunt, casting a black man as Ruteldge wouldn't serve any purpose. It would confuse the hell out of the audience (especially one who had never seen the show before and lacked basic historical knowledge, which, let's face it, is most of America) and make his entire argument about the benefits of slavery meaningless. At best, a director who chose to do this would THINK they were making a statement about how far we've come as a nation, but in fact the play does that on its own and does not need the distracting "here-I'm-hitting-you-over-the-head" stylistic choice.
Like I said, if the role doesn't depend so heavily on the race of the character (as Ruteledge - and indeed most of the 1776 cast - clearly does) then I'm all for color blind casting, even if historical accuracy is forfeited (ie Javert).

Hi, Shirley Temple Pudding.

#27

re: Norm Lewis as Javert

Posted: 7/7/06 at 5:53pm

Theres always one who gleefully dances off to join in on the dumbing down of America.

" I wish that the stage were as narrow as a tightrope wire, so that no incompetent would dare step upon it." -- Goethe (he wants you to go to my Myspace page www.myspace.com/jasonklemm

#28

re: Norm Lewis as Javert

Posted: 7/7/06 at 5:55pm

not you jasonf, you seem to be quite the knowledgeable theatre afficianado.

" I wish that the stage were as narrow as a tightrope wire, so that no incompetent would dare step upon it." -- Goethe (he wants you to go to my Myspace page www.myspace.com/jasonklemm

#29

re: Norm Lewis as Javert

Posted: 7/7/06 at 5:58pm

Thanks for the clarifying post :)

Hi, Shirley Temple Pudding.

#30

re: Norm Lewis as Javert

Posted: 7/7/06 at 6:01pm

Lets be real....it seems many of these posters on this site think that theatre didnt exist before Phantom of the Opera or Wicked, and the fact they own Kristin Chenoweth's latest album makes them an expert. Ask them who Chekhov is, and they'll give you a Star Trek reference. Not all...but many.

" I wish that the stage were as narrow as a tightrope wire, so that no incompetent would dare step upon it." -- Goethe (he wants you to go to my Myspace page www.myspace.com/jasonklemm

#31

re: Norm Lewis as Javert

Posted: 7/7/06 at 6:14pm

The roles in Les Miserables can be played by anyone who can sing regardless of race. As long as there is no specification in the script about race, I don't see a problem.

#32

re: Norm Lewis as Javert

Posted: 7/7/06 at 6:22pm

In the script for , Ain't Misbehavin' it doesnt specify African American casting. I know a caucasian that can sing the hell out of Ole Man River...but we all know there werent white sharecropper slaves, and there werent african american french police lieutenants in 18th century France. If the talent argument is used, then have an asian american sing Joe in Showboat. An african american lead in Damn Yankees? Yes, I totally can buy it. But not in something where the obvious should be obvious.

" I wish that the stage were as narrow as a tightrope wire, so that no incompetent would dare step upon it." -- Goethe (he wants you to go to my Myspace page www.myspace.com/jasonklemm

#33

re: Norm Lewis as Javert

Posted: 7/7/06 at 6:41pm

but as people have said there are shows that are not race driven which Aint Misbhavin is...Les Miz isn't and while it goes against what history would allow...you CAN do that in theater. Thats the beauty of theater. I think Norm will be amazing and his race won't bother me one bit when I see it...nor will any of the other cast memebers. It's gonna be an interesting mix.

RIP Natasha Richardson. ~You were a light on this earth ~

#34

re: Norm Lewis as Javert

Posted: 7/7/06 at 7:15pm

I agree...he will be amazing..and im sure I will enjoy the production. This whole thing was just something to think about during the dog days of summer.

" I wish that the stage were as narrow as a tightrope wire, so that no incompetent would dare step upon it." -- Goethe (he wants you to go to my Myspace page www.myspace.com/jasonklemm

#35

re: Norm Lewis as Javert

Posted: 7/7/06 at 7:22pm

Who cares at least Norm has the voice of an angel!

#36

re: Norm Lewis as Javert

Posted: 7/7/06 at 7:22pm

Haha phillyactor - you're giving WAY too much credit to some of these people if you think they would know Chekhov from Star Trek!

Hi, Shirley Temple Pudding.

#37

re: Norm Lewis as Javert

Posted: 7/7/06 at 7:24pm

yes BwayBaby18 yes he does...can't wait to hear his Stars

RIP Natasha Richardson. ~You were a light on this earth ~

#38

re: Norm Lewis as Javert

Posted: 7/7/06 at 7:29pm

re: AIN'T MISBEHAVIN' - the absolute climax of the show is a song called "Black and Blue", which has lyrics that would make absolutely no sense sung by white performers.

re: Les Miz - If I can go to the opera and accept a 55-year old, 200 pound Italian woman as AIDA, I can accept Norm Lewis as Javert. The show is NOT about race, and the characters are fictitious.

re: 1776 - the characters in this show ARE real, and it teches about history. Imagine a 10 year old child asking his parents, "So there were black people in congress, even when there was slavery?"

#39

re: Norm Lewis as Javert

Posted: 7/7/06 at 7:36pm

God, people are so sensitive.

The topic of colorblind casting comes up quite frequently on this board, and I would like to once again throw in my two cents on this matter: IT DEPENDS ON THE ROLE. I'm all about giving so-called "minorities" (even though no such thing exists in America anymore) an equal chance when it comes to casting. And there are many roles that are colorblind. However, many are not, especially when it comes to historical piece such as Les Mis.

However, many shows (especially musicals) are non-realistic in style. Some musicals are "realistic" enough that they have to be done with a certain acknowledgement of race (i.e. My Fair Lady), but others are "fantastical" enough in style that race doesn't that much matter (i.e. Pippin). Of course it usually makes sense to cast characters who are related to each other as the same race (i.e. if Pippin is black, Charlegmagne should probably be so too), and when race is an issue within the show (such as in Ragtime), of course appropriate casting must follow. So it really depends.

I personally feel that Les Mis is a realistic enough musical that it would be hard to swallow seeing a black man as a police officer in 19th century France, but hey, I'm not the director so it doesn't matter what I think.

Norm Lewis is awesome though.

#40

re: Norm Lewis as Javert

Posted: 7/7/06 at 8:13pm

Creating a world of theater that more truly reflects the theater WORLD will only serve to help carry live performance into the future. Most, if not all, of the people who post on this board love theater and probably performed at some point in their lives. Does anyone remember the magic of being in their first shows and performing characters that were "traditionaly" older, younger, different races or even different sexes? It was magic. At least it was for me, once a 80 scrooge and then a 20 year old chorus girl. Theater should challenge us and make us think. Let's not kill the magic by worrying about how realistic it is.

#41

re: Norm Lewis as Javert

Posted: 7/7/06 at 8:33pm

By "lead" in Damn Yankees, do you mean Joe or Applegate? Because in a show set in 1950s America, wouldn't race be as limiting as in 19th century France?

If we're talking Joe, we're also talking Negro Leagues or integrated baseball, and if we're talking integration, that doesn't fit with how the team, and the press, accept Joe.

If we're talking Applegate, then there's the dual problem of Satan being black and a middle aged white guy in the 1950s making a deal with a random black guy who comes to his door? It's not period.

Yes, it can be modernised in setting - however, the tone is very definitely 1950s and it'll never read as well when pulled out of its setting. Heck, Les Miserables was done in a modernised production in Australia, complete with runaway car rather than cart. Some elements of that likely read a bit oddly in modernisation, too.

So I'm just curious why you could accept interracial casting in a piece that reads as part of a period where that was unacceptable, but you can't accept it in another piece that definitely takes place in a period where that was unacceptable.

I don't even know why I'm posting this - the whole topic is a dead horse.

#42

re: Norm Lewis as Javert

Posted: 7/7/06 at 8:40pm

Jackie Robinson broke the color barrier well enough in advance that a black Joe Hardy would totally be acceptable and possible. I think that actually would be a nice casting choice.

" I wish that the stage were as narrow as a tightrope wire, so that no incompetent would dare step upon it." -- Goethe (he wants you to go to my Myspace page www.myspace.com/jasonklemm

#43

re: Norm Lewis as Javert

Posted: 7/7/06 at 10:42pm

i think that a black javert is no more or less logical than the color blind casting in chicago; i.e. the most powerful defense lawyer in chicago in 1920 can be a young black man (taye diggs etc.) and roxie hart can be black (robin givens) and married to a white man. Both worked (in billy flynn's case many many times over) brilliantly so lets all turn a blind eye to this and hope they put out a damn good cd.

"Grease," the fourth revival of the season, is the worst show in the history of theater and represents an unparalleled assault on Western civilization and its values. - Michael Reidel

#44

re: Norm Lewis as Javert

Posted: 7/7/06 at 10:50pm

In a theater class a few years ago, we were taught about "suspension of disbelief". If the piece of work establishes that something is so, that's it - its so. With Norm as Javert, they are establishing that black men were police officers in France at the time.

If you can't get past a black man playing Javert because its 'not how it was', then you must not get Les Mis in the least. I'm pretty sure that the people of France spoke French and didn't sing all the time.

#45

re: Norm Lewis as Javert

Posted: 7/7/06 at 11:35pm

Phillyactor, The French generally arent a racist people or a people who consider race an issue as much as other people (Americans). Why wouldn't a black man be Javert? maybe not in america, but in France it's very possible. Javert wasn't written as a Black man, but the position couldve been a black man. sorry to offend you by seeing a black man in power.

"Girl, this cupcake is the jumpoff"- Adriane Lenox

#46

re: Norm Lewis as Javert

Posted: 7/7/06 at 11:38pm

Yes, it's true Javert should not be black for historical reasons; however, the change in ethnicity will add to the character. Javert prides himself on being born in a jail to a poor family and on moving past that. That's part of why he believes that a strong work ethic and faith in God leads to a successful life. So if in addition to overcoming an impoverished/imprisoned family, Javert is also black in a time of racism, that makes his belief system even more believable and understandable. So I like that Norm Lewis is playing Javert even if the history is inaccurate. It will work for this musical.

#47

re: Norm Lewis as Javert

Posted: 7/7/06 at 11:38pm

Wait a second -- like I said, I have no problems with Norm playing the role - I think color-blind casting is absolutely fine here - historically speaking, WOULD a black man have been a police inspector back then?? I'm not so sure he would have...

Hi, Shirley Temple Pudding.

#48

re: Norm Lewis as Javert

Posted: 7/7/06 at 11:41pm

well i dont care what you are so sure of, stop acting as if it's impossible

"Girl, this cupcake is the jumpoff"- Adriane Lenox

#49

re: Norm Lewis as Javert

Posted: 7/7/06 at 11:43pm

I'm not acting as if it's impossible, I'm ASKING if it's historically accurate.

Hi, Shirley Temple Pudding.

#50

re: Norm Lewis as Javert

Posted: 7/7/06 at 11:49pm

I think the problems people have with race is that they feel the reality basis of the show (no matter how fanciful), needs to be accurate. They want the world that is affected by the fantasticallness to be accurate.

Personally speaking, I have no problem with interacial casting unless the show's characters need to be racially segregated or monotone (such as in Hairspray or Show Boat).

How to properly use its/it's: Its is the possessive. It's is the contraction for it is...

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