#76
Posted: 7/8/06 at 1:33am
lol. touche, bitch. :)
"Girl, this cupcake is the jumpoff"- Adriane Lenox
Norm Lewis as Javert — Page 4
#77
Posted: 7/8/06 at 1:41am
I was going to say something profound and classy, but I see everything's been sloved.
I have NEVER met Cheyenne Jackson. I have never hung out with him in his dressing room, he did not tweet me, he never bought me a beverage, and he mostly certainly didn't tickle me. . .that is all.
#78
Posted: 7/8/06 at 1:43am
Ya see, thats what I thought too soapguy17 and that we all might live- happily ever aft-e-e-e-e-ER.
However, the madness has yet to die down, which I guess I should have expected anyway considering look where the hell we are
However, the madness has yet to die down, which I guess I should have expected anyway considering look where the hell we are
#79
Posted: 7/8/06 at 2:06am
Tracy, I call my boyfriend sista...a sense of humor goes a long way in this world. BTW, if an African American called you sista you wouldnt have a problem with it. So why when a lil' ole cracker like me says it, you get offended. Kind of a double standard me thinks. Defers to the Avenue Q soundtrack.
" I wish that the stage were as narrow as a tightrope wire, so that no incompetent would dare step upon it." -- Goethe (he wants you to go to my Myspace page www.myspace.com/jasonklemm
#80
Posted: 7/8/06 at 2:23am
Wow. Just... wow. To this whole thread.
'"Contrairiwise," continued Tweedledee, "if it was so, it might be; and if it were so, it would be; but as it isn't, it ain't. That's logic."'
~Lewis Carroll
#81
Posted: 7/8/06 at 2:36am
"BTW, if an African American called you sista you wouldnt have a problem with it."
and i really don't care about your boyfriend, once again he is not the spokesperson for the black race.for all i know he could be just as racist as you are coming across. you dont know me. you dont know anything about me. and i dont use the term, "cracker". but i do use the term, "loser".
and i really don't care about your boyfriend, once again he is not the spokesperson for the black race.for all i know he could be just as racist as you are coming across. you dont know me. you dont know anything about me. and i dont use the term, "cracker". but i do use the term, "loser".
"Girl, this cupcake is the jumpoff"- Adriane Lenox
Updated On: 7/8/06 at 02:36 AM
#82
Posted: 7/8/06 at 2:45am
I see my profoundness is needed. Dude, having an african american partner has nothing to do with anything. Would Eva Braun being Jewish change history? So, we can toss that out of the door. The fact that your partner finds you using the term "sista" funny can be tossed out of the door also. Even if there weren't black leaders during this time period, that SHOULDN'T take anything away from this staged production. Race has nothing to do with the plot. End of story. This post should have ended with that.
I have NEVER met Cheyenne Jackson. I have never hung out with him in his dressing room, he did not tweet me, he never bought me a beverage, and he mostly certainly didn't tickle me. . .that is all.
#83
Posted: 7/8/06 at 3:04am
THIS IS NOT ABOUT RACISM...It was a debate about whether people favored tradional v. non traditional casting and what effect, if any, it had on the show. Norm Lewis was used cause I read it today. If I read theat BD WONG was cast in The Immportance of Being Earnest I would have used that. These are both extremely talented actors, the question is would their casting affect the show. You struck at me first Tracy making accusations that I was racist. Well, ok you can pull up a plate to the inner city shelter in West Philly, that this " racist" volunteers his time every week. You should be ashamed of yourself for turning a theatrical debate question into a race thing. Get off the soapbox that has NOTHING to do with this thread. Soapqueen, I think having an african american partner should show that I am most certainly not a racist. You two sound like the bigotted ones. I probably do more work in the African American community than you 2 combined. yeah, I'm racist. In your words...puh-leaze.
" I wish that the stage were as narrow as a tightrope wire, so that no incompetent would dare step upon it." -- Goethe (he wants you to go to my Myspace page www.myspace.com/jasonklemm
#84
Posted: 7/8/06 at 3:34am
I never said you were a racist, I said that the discussion should have ended at the fact that Race has nothing to do with this plot.And been burined after TonyaFanatic posted that info. And the fact that your throwing, your "volunteer" work in my face makes me respect it ALOT less. I'm looking back and no one called yo racist. The fact that you feel a need to defend yourself personally insted of defending your opinion is giving me a weird feeling in my stomach. The fact that you think this any of that person information that you gave up would make me respect that opinion any better.
I have NEVER met Cheyenne Jackson. I have never hung out with him in his dressing room, he did not tweet me, he never bought me a beverage, and he mostly certainly didn't tickle me. . .that is all.
Updated On: 7/8/06 at 03:34 AM
#85
Posted: 7/8/06 at 3:51am
your statements are offensive within themselves:
"Well, ok you can pull up a plate to the inner city shelter in West Philly, that this " racist" volunteers his time every week."
So? Your comments weren't racist because you volunteer at a shelter with black people? Why is it so important to point out that it's in West? I'm from Philly and it's not all black people at the MANY shelters in the city.
"I probably do more work in the African American community than you 2 combined."
I beg your pardon sir, but as a black actress getting her education, promoting the importance of it in MY community, and busting her ass EVERYDAY to get somewhere in this white, male-dominated indusrty not just for herself, but more for the young, men and women of color who come after me one day. that is more than you could EVER do. you use your "volunteer" work as plus-points elsewhere. slinging soup for some black people doesnt make you black. having a black boyfriend doesn't make you black. or make your statements less offensive. and im done with you.
"Well, ok you can pull up a plate to the inner city shelter in West Philly, that this " racist" volunteers his time every week."
So? Your comments weren't racist because you volunteer at a shelter with black people? Why is it so important to point out that it's in West? I'm from Philly and it's not all black people at the MANY shelters in the city.
"I probably do more work in the African American community than you 2 combined."
I beg your pardon sir, but as a black actress getting her education, promoting the importance of it in MY community, and busting her ass EVERYDAY to get somewhere in this white, male-dominated indusrty not just for herself, but more for the young, men and women of color who come after me one day. that is more than you could EVER do. you use your "volunteer" work as plus-points elsewhere. slinging soup for some black people doesnt make you black. having a black boyfriend doesn't make you black. or make your statements less offensive. and im done with you.
"Girl, this cupcake is the jumpoff"- Adriane Lenox
Updated On: 7/8/06 at 03:51 AM
#86
Posted: 7/8/06 at 4:14am
Tonya,I got news for you. You take that attitude of yours out into the acting profession, and your gonna find yourself waiting tables your whole life. Noone likes the poor me crap anymore, its hard all over. You sound more and more like the militant one with the racist chip on her shoulder. Take some friendly advice... get a sense of humor, then get your union cards. Ive had both for eight years, they'll serve you well. By the way , gays dont have it to well in the white male dominated world either..have you read the papers recently?
" I wish that the stage were as narrow as a tightrope wire, so that no incompetent would dare step upon it." -- Goethe (he wants you to go to my Myspace page www.myspace.com/jasonklemm
#88
Posted: 7/8/06 at 4:19am
Hey baritone, this was a civilized discussion.
" I wish that the stage were as narrow as a tightrope wire, so that no incompetent would dare step upon it." -- Goethe (he wants you to go to my Myspace page www.myspace.com/jasonklemm
#89
Posted: 7/8/06 at 4:40am
Yes , you are correct. It was IMPLIED that I was racist, I was CALLED Adolph. You couldnt be more right , Tonya, my African American boyfriend doesnt consider himself a spokesman for the black race, but rather the HUMAN race. Both of us have assimilated into a world of "us", rather than " us against them" which you seem to dwell. You said you were " busting your ass" to make things better for woman and children of color who come after you in YOUR community. I choose to try make things better in OUR community, not picking sides or favorites. The oppressed victim thing doesnt reasonate anymore... as many, many people are oppressed for a variety of reasons these days, and to single out only one segment of the population to help...if that it isnt the definition if racist, I do not know what is.
" I wish that the stage were as narrow as a tightrope wire, so that no incompetent would dare step upon it." -- Goethe (he wants you to go to my Myspace page www.myspace.com/jasonklemm
#90
Posted: 7/8/06 at 10:36am
I think we need to get a sociologist in here or something. I can't believe this thread went on like this after I left last night. phillyactor, my advice at this point, just end it. You are not going to get anywhere here. It's like the political discourse thread on the OT board is saying, a discussion about race in the theater can't be had apparently without slurs being flung around at each other, even though they're unjustified. The question put on the original board was based on a lack of knowledge which Tonya has now set straight. That's where this discussion should have ended. Tonya, NO ONE here had said anything that you should have been taking offensively until you become defensive for no apparent reason. Simply saying, "Yes, there were these black leaders in France at the time" would have ended the entire discussion.
Hi, Shirley Temple Pudding.
#91
Posted: 7/8/06 at 1:27pm
If there's one thing I've learned in life, it's to stay out of the way when people are on a moral crusade. Some people have the gift of being able to calmly discuss topics like this, but many do not. Trying to have these discussions is like walking on hot coals.
However, certain people need to stop looking for reasons to get offended and realize that there is a difference between being racist and making logical casting decisions. And that's all I'm gonna say about that.
However, certain people need to stop looking for reasons to get offended and realize that there is a difference between being racist and making logical casting decisions. And that's all I'm gonna say about that.
#92
Posted: 7/8/06 at 2:20pm
Sorry, I wasn't running away, just busy. My show opened last night.
Sorry if I offended anyone. Actually, the casting of Shaun bothered me a tad bit as well. Cornell is awful regardless of his race, yes. The man is pretty much tone-deaf and not imposing in the least bit. Regardless, though, is the fact that in the time period that LES MISERABLES takes place, a black man would never hold that kind of power. Period. So why is a black man playing the role? There's a difference between color-blind casting roles and being historically accurate. I am FAR from racist. I've dated guys of all different colors, for God's sake. It's got nothing to do with me being racist, but simply the fact that it does not make any sense.
That's like casting the mayor in LI'L ABNER black. It doesn't make sense.
Or maybe I don't. Who knows?
And Baritone, I appreciate that. Thank you. Because what I was trying to say may have come out a little offensive, but really, it was the truth. A black man would never had held that power then. It's incredibly sad to admit, but it's very, very true.
Sorry if I offended anyone. Actually, the casting of Shaun bothered me a tad bit as well. Cornell is awful regardless of his race, yes. The man is pretty much tone-deaf and not imposing in the least bit. Regardless, though, is the fact that in the time period that LES MISERABLES takes place, a black man would never hold that kind of power. Period. So why is a black man playing the role? There's a difference between color-blind casting roles and being historically accurate. I am FAR from racist. I've dated guys of all different colors, for God's sake. It's got nothing to do with me being racist, but simply the fact that it does not make any sense.
That's like casting the mayor in LI'L ABNER black. It doesn't make sense.
Or maybe I don't. Who knows?
And Baritone, I appreciate that. Thank you. Because what I was trying to say may have come out a little offensive, but really, it was the truth. A black man would never had held that power then. It's incredibly sad to admit, but it's very, very true.
"I know now that theatre saved my life." - Susan Stroman
#93
Posted: 7/8/06 at 3:03pm
So what? Talk about Irrational Fixation.
The Thenardiers never went and adopted a little Filipina girl out of the goodness of their hearts, either, but it seems to have happened an awful lot.
The Thenardiers never went and adopted a little Filipina girl out of the goodness of their hearts, either, but it seems to have happened an awful lot.
"This thread reads like a series of White House memos." — Mister Matt
#94
Posted: 7/8/06 at 3:15pm
Lizzie, I don't really agree with that either. I don't know. I love Norm, I think he'll be wonderful and sound divine, but at the same time, I just think it's a historical error that shouldn't really be overlooked.
Hey, *I* didn't start this debate.
Hey, *I* didn't start this debate.
"I know now that theatre saved my life." - Susan Stroman
#95
Posted: 7/8/06 at 3:56pm
Well, I am glad that the rational heads returned to this, and I thank a few of you for pretty much stating the points I was trying to make. I became a little angry at 3am after Tonya called me Adolph, and got on the soapbox/pulpit. I do like spirited debate..for an open mind can be changed or at least challenged. For a new idea cannot be grafted on a closed mind, and unfortunately I had two non-Kyra Sedgewick closers last night!
" I wish that the stage were as narrow as a tightrope wire, so that no incompetent would dare step upon it." -- Goethe (he wants you to go to my Myspace page www.myspace.com/jasonklemm
#96
Posted: 7/8/06 at 4:06pm
I don't understand why the filling of a role like the authoritarian Javert by an African American actor would be such a challenge to believe. As mentioned earlier, prior companies of 'Les Mis' have utilized multiracial casts, and an African-American Javert is far less historically inaccurate than a little white girl who ages ten years to become an Asian Eponine. Similarly, think of all of the African-American Fantines (Melba Moore, Thursday Farrar, Tonya Dixon) who have "given birth" to white Cosettes. And don't forget about Fuschia Walker, the actress who played Madame Thenardier on Broadway for a good 3-4 years, who was also black (and the actresses who played Eponine during that time: Sarah Uriarte-Berry, Megan Lawrence, Kerry Butler-all white actresses). 'Les Mis' delves into subjects that supercede things like race, which is arguably why it has been so universally successful. Just my thoughts on the matter.
#97
Posted: 7/8/06 at 4:07pm
"A black man would never had held that power then. It's incredibly sad to admit, but it's very, very true."
you're very wrong and trying to come off as the paragon of truth. it's incredibly sad to admit, but it's very, very true. i sat here and posted numerous men who were black in the time, in the middle of the French Revolution, who held positions of power and you totally ignored them. and before checking your facts or even doing a little research, you couldn't wait to exclaim how a black man in the 1830s "would never hold that kind of power. Period." why such a definite assumption? black people werent slaves in France at the time unless they were in the country with masters from other countries. France has always generally been a place of freedom and equality when it comes to race. why would it have been so impossible? tsk tsk
"Well, I am glad that the rational heads returned to this"
are they rational because their thoughts are just as close-minded as yours?
you're very wrong and trying to come off as the paragon of truth. it's incredibly sad to admit, but it's very, very true. i sat here and posted numerous men who were black in the time, in the middle of the French Revolution, who held positions of power and you totally ignored them. and before checking your facts or even doing a little research, you couldn't wait to exclaim how a black man in the 1830s "would never hold that kind of power. Period." why such a definite assumption? black people werent slaves in France at the time unless they were in the country with masters from other countries. France has always generally been a place of freedom and equality when it comes to race. why would it have been so impossible? tsk tsk
"Well, I am glad that the rational heads returned to this"
are they rational because their thoughts are just as close-minded as yours?
"Girl, this cupcake is the jumpoff"- Adriane Lenox
Updated On: 7/8/06 at 04:07 PM
#98
Posted: 7/8/06 at 4:23pm
You are assuming that I , or the other poster, believe that a black man couldnt have held that kind of power in France. I admitted I made a historical error, that you corrected. But if I were to say that a black man couldnt have been an american congressman in 1810, I would be correct. I wasnt making a judgement as to whether or not he SHOULD have had power, but rather, COULD have had power. Was it morally RIGHT that there couldn't have been a black congressman, of course not. But that's history. I didnt know French history, and I am glad that was possible in France. I keep posting because, I dont like the implications that I am in any way racist. That is just as hurtful to me, as some words I am sure would be hurtful to you. I just think that you are missing the krux of this discussion and turning it into something else.
" I wish that the stage were as narrow as a tightrope wire, so that no incompetent would dare step upon it." -- Goethe (he wants you to go to my Myspace page www.myspace.com/jasonklemm
#99
Posted: 7/8/06 at 4:45pm
I hear ya, philly.
"I know now that theatre saved my life." - Susan Stroman
#100
Posted: 7/8/06 at 5:28pm
Quite frankly, I'm not blind nor are most people. But it's not the unsighted who demand color-blind casting. I'll lay the entire issue to rest when Rebecca Luker is given the chance to play Ottilie in House of Flowers and "Little Joe" Jackson is played by Hugh Jackman 
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