POCAHONTAS as a Stage Musical but not about Pocahontas

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 8/12/15 at 3:05am

I was just listening to Pocahontas's brilliant score and wondering about the inevitable stage potential.

 

THEN I thought what if they took the songs and basic story but divorced them from the history that the movie maligns? The main problem with the movie I think is it's lamentable playing with historical fact, since the animation is stunning and so is the music. So why not try to take the good parts and morph it into something workable on its own without the historical figures.

 

Anybody have any ideas on how this might work?

 

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 8/12/15 at 3:27am

You mean like putting "Colors of the Wind" in a new musical about hurricanes or just changing the characters names to disassociate the story with history? Couldn't they just use the songs in a more historically accurate adaptation of the Pocahontas legend? Similar to the way the Mary Poppins musical used songs from the film in an adaptation that more closely resembled the original novels rather than just plopping the film on stage.

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 8/12/15 at 3:35am

I meant something a little more re-worked than just changing the names but for all intents and purposes yeah something like that. 

 

I don't know how well these songs would really fit into the true story of Pocahontas, being rooted as they are in falseness and over romanticized untruths. But they are lovely songs.

 

(Also Pocahontas is not a legend, but a real historical figure! Though the Disney version is pretty much a myth)

Updated On: 8/12/15 at 03:35 AM

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 8/12/15 at 3:50am

I know she was a real person, but are the facts not a bit hazzy? I've always assumed the romanticism was the result of the actual facts being twisted and embellished over the years. Would they not be able to go back and find a happy middle ground between truth and fiction rather than the completely misguided film version?

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 8/12/15 at 3:59am

The romanticism surely is the result of embellishing over the years but today the true facts of her life are well-documented and easily available (as they undoubtedly were 20 years ago which makes the misguided film all the more baffling).

 

Now whether or not they would make a good musical is hard to say. The focus would probably have to be more on her being paraded for the British (which was the subject of the DTV sequel) which would count out the original film songs. I don't think they could get away with a middle ground type thing, if they wanted to make it more accurate they would have to go all the way and that would necessitate starting from scratch.

[ggersten]

Posted: 8/12/15 at 9:51am

When Mel Gibson was asked about the historical inaccuracy of the movie he responded:  "There's a talking tree."

[Phyllis Rogers Stone]

Posted: 8/12/15 at 9:54am

I think a whole show about how listening with your heart can make you automatically speak a foreign language would be good. 

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 8/12/15 at 10:02am

Wow, they've really limited our editing options in the revamp of the SmartText editor. Was gonna put this as a YouTube link. Instead, since that URL is not supported in the media embed function, I'll have to quote the damn thing. Thanks Rob. Thanks a lot.

 

Anyway...

 

On the popular television situation comedy Parks and Recreation, Ron Swanson (played masterfully by Nick Offerman) once offered this pearl of wisdom: "I used to work in a sheet-metal factory, but then a job came along at the tannery. The hours were better, and I would get paid. Also, I'd have the chance to work with leather both before and after it was on the cow, which had always been a dream of mine. I didn't want to give up my sheet-metal job, so I tried to do both jobs and finish middle school. [...] The point is, I was so tired, I tried to puncture an eight-gauge aluminum foil with a leather awl. I learned a lesson: Never half-ass two things. Whole-ass one thing."

 

I quoted way more of that speech than was necessary to make my point, but still my point is made. Mr. Nowack, you're trying to have it both ways: an adaptation of a successful legitimate theatrical release animated feature motion picture by Disney, and a historically accurate treatment of the true story of Pocahontas. You would be better served by doing either one or the other, not trying to have it both ways. The Hunchback of Notre Dame just tried to have it both ways, and now it's going directly into stock and amateur licensing and a studio recording rather than a run on Broadway. Successfully doing one or the other is possible; successfully accomplishing both is significantly harder.

Updated On: 8/12/15 at 10:02 AM

[Gorlois]

Posted: 8/12/15 at 10:29am

I think the myth of Pocahontas, almost like the American La Malinche, where we have an Indian princess who becomes the mother of two nations is still very potent. After all, isn't the joke "What do you call 32 white Americans in a room together? 1 Indian princess." It's ingrained in us; the baptism of Pocahontas hangs in the rotunda of the Capitol building underneath a mural of George Washington ascending to heaven. For years and years, the figure of Pocahontas has been so important to the American psyche as a birth right claim to the ground that this nation was established on. I'd love a more measured take on Pocahontas, that eliminates the Romeo and Juliet romance amongst all the many other inaccuracies inherent in the fable. But I think that treatment of Pocahontas would also have to ask a lot of uncomfortable questions of its audience, and, speaking as someone who grew up loving the 1995 film which led me to research the historical truth, I'm not sure Disney is the entity to take that on. Nor do I think audiences would riot if Disney brought Pocahontas to the stage untouched. After all, perhaps the fact that Pocahontas is now a legitimate Disney Princess with toys and dolls and theme park appearances is proof that Americans are just as unwilling as ever to reevaluate their relationship with the historical Matoaka.

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 8/12/15 at 2:02pm

JUST TO BE CLEAR

 

I did not make this thread to advocate a true to life musical about the life of Pocahontas. I don't think such a project, whether based in the Disney Fairy Tale version or started from scratch, is necessary or even a very good idea. I was pointing out the downfalls of such a project in the light of the suggestion that they could just rework the movie. Maybe it would work as a movie in the style of the Cate Blanchett Elizabeth movies but not as a musical.

 

I was suggesting recycling the songs and basic concept in a new project that didn't use maligned history as its template.

[Charley Kringas Inc]

Posted: 8/12/15 at 2:41pm

I dunno, I think a more accurate musical would be really interesting, particularly given her later marriage and journey to England, where she actually wound up running into John Smith at a party.

[CATSNYrevival]

Posted: 8/12/15 at 4:34pm

I'm still confused, Nowack. Do you want a fictional romantic musical about a Native American girl and an English explorer using the Disney songs, but not specifically based on the story of Pocahontas? I'm still trying to figure it out.

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 8/12/15 at 4:37pm

My point remains. Mr. Nowack, you're trying to have it both ways: an adaptation of a successful legitimate theatrical release animated feature motion picture by Disney, and a historically accurate treatment of an original story involving an unrelated Indian princess. You would be better served by doing either one or the other, not trying to have it both ways. The Hunchback of Notre Dame just tried to have it both ways, and now it's going directly into stock and amateur licensing and a studio recording rather than a run on Broadway. Successfully doing one or the other is possible; successfully accomplishing both is significantly harder.

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 8/12/15 at 11:15pm

"a historically accurate treatment of an original story involving an unrelated Indian princess."

 

I was imagining something even more distanced from the history, maybe not even about a Native American Princess and an English explorer. The lyrics aren't super specific to Native American culture I don't think. What the replacements might be I couldn't say, that's why I started the thread! Though I guess something along those lines might be the happy middle ground CATS spoke of.

[PatrickDennis92]

Posted: 8/13/15 at 7:25am

Avatar the Musical 

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 8/13/15 at 3:31pm

"Avatar the Musical "

?Seriously that's kinda what I had in mind!

[firebolts]

Posted: 8/13/15 at 3:40pm

No.

[g.d.e.l.g.i.]

Posted: 8/13/15 at 3:42pm

"I was imagining something even more distanced from the history, maybe not even about a Native American Princess and an English explorer. The lyrics aren't super specific to Native American culture I don't think."

 

...you're kidding, right? Please tell me you are. The lyrics alone are so rooted in Native American culture it's not funny.

 

By Stephen Schwartz's own account, the lyrics to "Colors of the Wind," for example, were inspired by a famous letter written by Chief Seattle to Congress, which has been re-printed many times. He went out of his way to use Native American locution and imagery, and the specific wording was influenced by some of the Native American poetry he'd been reading as research. (And this is saying nothing of the countless uses of Native influences ranging from Algonkian to Southwestern tribal language.)

 

You could no more place the score of Pocahontas in a show utterly divorced from its context than you could shoehorn "The Star-Spangled Banner" into a Frank Wildhorn musical. It just doesn't work that way. Which again returns me to a variation of my point: you wanna write a musical of Avatar, do it. You wanna write a musical of Pocahontas, do it. But trying to do both in one show is just foolhardy.

Updated On: 8/13/15 at 03:42 PM

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 8/13/15 at 3:48pm

I'm sorry I really did not know.

 

These are just my late night ramblings, uninformed and as you put it foolhardy.

[pnewelljr]

Posted: 12/11/15 at 11:15am

To be fair, with some slight lyrical changes to If I Never Knew You and other songs here an there, removing the romance (allowing Pocahontas to be a younger girl) and a rewritten script, the songs would all work.

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 12/11/15 at 2:29pm

Oy not one of my finer ideas!

[OperaGhost2]

Posted: 12/11/15 at 3:48pm

Pocahontas is about racism, white superiority, valuing materials  over mother nature are all themes that are very current.

[darquegk]

Posted: 12/11/15 at 5:24pm

How about a play about Merlin in which Merlin doesn't appear? It'll be very Greek- "Did you hear about what Merlin did, just over there offstage?"

[ErinDillyFan]

Posted: 12/12/15 at 1:06pm

I know, I love the music from "The Sound of Music", but let's tell the true story of the Van Trapp family and not some overly saccharine tale that removes all truth except the names of some real people.