Pacific Overtures — Page 2

After Eight, don't you ever get bored posting the same thing over and over? Many of us here can and do discuss Sondheim in a critical way: we love some shows, we like others, we think some others don't work. We find something interesting in each piece, but that doesn't mean we are blind to his shows that don't seem to work overall. (In this thread alone, posters have compared three productions of PO alone!)

In response, you post the same two ideas over and over: Sondheim's shows are "bad" (though you never explain what that means) and Sondheim fans are snobs.

I marvel at your patience for repetition.

Again, I ask you: If you do not like his shows..why do you see them? Why have you seen him? I am curious.

Look, I'm not the biggest Sondheim fan ever. I find a lot of his works to be beautiful and enjoyable (and you don't, which is fine: we all have different opinions, which is great). I like Into the Woods, Follies (though I will say some parts of the book need work), Company, and Sweeney Todd. I find Sunday in the Park with George to be OK.

But, that's not the point. The point is, maybe, instead of constantly insulting people's tastes and opinions, you should embrace the difference. Instead of taking your opinion as "it is", why not say try to find optimism and instead of negativity.


What do you like? Besides Into the Woods, Company, Follies, etc., I also like a few other musicals...do you like the Sound of Music? My Fair Lady? What do you like? We could all focus on what we all like in common rather than repeatedly going to a thread that has "keyword:Sondheim" in it to call his musicals "pretentious bores".


Just a few thoughts...and please answer the question I asked at the beginning of this post. Thank You!

It was a heavy-handed, pretentious bore.
Are you talking about yourself or Pacific Overtures?

"Again, I ask you: If you do not like his shows..why do you see them? Why have you seen him? I am curious. "


I didn't answer the first time because the answer is so obvious. How do I know I don't like a show until I see it?

"why not say try to find optimism and instead of negativity. "

I'm very optimistic. How else could I see the shows I see?

"What do you like?"

Good shows.

"do you like the Sound of Music? My Fair Lady?" What do you like? "

Yes. Yes. See above.

"We could all focus on what we all like in common rather than repeatedly going to a thread that has "keyword:Sondheim" in it to call his musicals "pretentious bores". "

The OP sought input from those who had seen the original production. I provided him the information he requested.

I hope I've answered your questions to your satisfaction.

And WL56: To answer your question: Pacific Overtures.

Updated On: 2/1/15 at 09:13 PM

Perhaps After Eight is a Lady who Lunches - and doesn't like that Sondheim can capture him so perfectly.

Showface, don't bother with After Eight. I tried to get him to talk about shows he actually liked and he refused. I thought we might be friends, but his awful demeaner and attitude turned me off.

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Updated On: 2/1/15 at 09:29 PM

Also, perhaps After Eight is upset that Sondheim is generally more well thought of then Jerry Herman (and more well known, people not related to theatre know who Sondheim is but no one knows who wrote Hello, Dolly!).

It is interesting that After Eight much more closely resembles a Sondheim character (which he detests) than a Herman character. I suspect they would not spend a fraction of their time thinking and arguing about things they disliked.

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Updated On: 2/1/15 at 09:33 PM

Fantod, I mean by name. If you ask a normal person to name a musical theatre composer they will name either Rodgers and Hammerstein or Sondheim. People may know Hello, Dolly!, Mame, and La Cage but they have no idea who wrote it. In fact, a lot of people think of Hello, Dolly! as that film with Barbra Streisand - not the hit musical that won 10 Tony Awards.

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I suppose, but I also don't think Sondheim is as recognizable as you think. I went to see Sweeney Todd with my grandmother a while ago and she had no idea who Sondheim was, despite living in New Haven for 30 years and having seen every show that passed through the Shubert during that time. Both my mother and father are casual theatre fans who have no idea who Sondheim is. His name is recognized amongst a certain crowd (mainly New Yorkers) and that's it. He is not as famous as people would like him to be. But then again, that's just my personal experience.

Also, Fantod, as musical theatre fans, I think we forget just how little known Broadway composers are nowadays. In the past, Rodgers and Hammerstein, Kurt Weill, ad many others were household names with a bunch of hits. Today, the common music is mindless pop.

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Let's not forget that Sondheim is one of the few Broadway composers (post Golden Age) to have a major Grammy winning POP hit with "Send in the Clowns."

The general public, even casual theater fans, just don't know songwriters in general. Even for pop music, they only would know the artist who made any given song popular rather than who wrote it.

The only theater exception I think is Rodgers & Hammerstein because their works are often branded with their names. Other than them it's impossible to say if Herman or Sondheim or Weill or Porter are more well-known.

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Not in modern mainstream America (anymore). Their songs may be well known but who wrote them are not.

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The only truth in an opinion, Long After Eight, is that it is yours.