Pacific Overtures- Page 2

[GavestonPS]

Posted: 2/1/15 at 7:10pm

After Eight, don't you ever get bored posting the same thing over and over? Many of us here can and do discuss Sondheim in a critical way: we love some shows, we like others, we think some others don't work. We find something interesting in each piece, but that doesn't mean we are blind to his shows that don't seem to work overall. (In this thread alone, posters have compared three productions of PO alone!)

In response, you post the same two ideas over and over: Sondheim's shows are "bad" (though you never explain what that means) and Sondheim fans are snobs.

I marvel at your patience for repetition.

[After Eight]

Posted: 2/1/15 at 7:21pm

^

The truth can never be repeated enough.

Especially here, where it is so sorely needed, and so rarely heard!


"don't you ever get bored posting the same thing over and over?"

Do you? Does Eric? Does PJ, or any of the others here who trot out the same tired phrases time and time again? I've read them so often I can recite them by heart.

Not trying to blow my own horn here, but at least I tell it like it is. Updated On: 2/1/15 at 07:21 PM

[Showface]

Posted: 2/1/15 at 8:45pm

Again, I ask you: If you do not like his shows..why do you see them? Why have you seen him? I am curious.

Look, I'm not the biggest Sondheim fan ever. I find a lot of his works to be beautiful and enjoyable (and you don't, which is fine: we all have different opinions, which is great). I like Into the Woods, Follies (though I will say some parts of the book need work), Company, and Sweeney Todd. I find Sunday in the Park with George to be OK.

But, that's not the point. The point is, maybe, instead of constantly insulting people's tastes and opinions, you should embrace the difference. Instead of taking your opinion as "it is", why not say try to find optimism and instead of negativity.


What do you like? Besides Into the Woods, Company, Follies, etc., I also like a few other musicals...do you like the Sound of Music? My Fair Lady? What do you like? We could all focus on what we all like in common rather than repeatedly going to a thread that has "keyword:Sondheim" in it to call his musicals "pretentious bores".


Just a few thoughts...and please answer the question I asked at the beginning of this post. Thank You!

[Charley Kringas Inc]

Posted: 2/1/15 at 8:45pm

You're a gigantic douchebag, After Eight.

[Wickedlover56]

Posted: 2/1/15 at 8:52pm

It was a heavy-handed, pretentious bore.
Are you talking about yourself or Pacific Overtures?

[indytallguy]

Posted: 2/1/15 at 9:03pm

Coke's #makeithappy Super Bowl ad campaign was created exclusively for After Eight comments.

[After Eight]

Posted: 2/1/15 at 9:13pm

"Again, I ask you: If you do not like his shows..why do you see them? Why have you seen him? I am curious. "


I didn't answer the first time because the answer is so obvious. How do I know I don't like a show until I see it?

"why not say try to find optimism and instead of negativity. "

I'm very optimistic. How else could I see the shows I see?

"What do you like?"

Good shows.

"do you like the Sound of Music? My Fair Lady?" What do you like? "

Yes. Yes. See above.

"We could all focus on what we all like in common rather than repeatedly going to a thread that has "keyword:Sondheim" in it to call his musicals "pretentious bores". "

The OP sought input from those who had seen the original production. I provided him the information he requested.

I hope I've answered your questions to your satisfaction.

And WL56: To answer your question: Pacific Overtures.








Updated On: 2/1/15 at 09:13 PM

[Showface]

Posted: 2/1/15 at 9:22pm

"Good shows."

Exactly my point. The way you express your opinion puts down others...it's rather not nice, IMO. Because, guess what? Your opinion is not right! Neither is mine! That's a fact! Because...there is no "right or wrong" in opinions.



"I didn't answer the first time because the answer is so obvious. How do I know I don't like a show until I see it?"

I guess I could consider this a coherent response. I just am...perplexed that you seem to have seen most, if not all of Sondheim's shows, and you seem to not have liked any of them. Surely, you would have noticed a trend a some point, therefore maybe putting a seed of thought in your mind that would trigger an idea: "maybe if I didn't like this show...I wouldn't like this one...do I really want to take this gamble?" It's fine if you want to take the chance though, perfectly fine!

So you like the Sound of Music and My Fair Lady? Great! So do I? Oh, but does my liking of Sondheim's shows declare me "tasteless"? I think not.


Well, I hope I've responded to your satisfaction...and please remember:

Opinion is different than fact!

[Sally Durant Plummer]

Posted: 2/1/15 at 9:29pm

Perhaps After Eight is a Lady who Lunches - and doesn't like that Sondheim can capture him so perfectly.

Showface, don't bother with After Eight. I tried to get him to talk about shows he actually liked and he refused. I thought we might be friends, but his awful demeaner and attitude turned me off.

Updated On: 2/1/15 at 09:29 PM

[Charley Kringas Inc]

Posted: 2/1/15 at 9:31pm

After Eight is also thinks that there is an actual cabal of "bad guys" attempting to ruin the quality of Broadway musicals, like some spooky circle of evil people rubbing their hands and cackling about bringing down Big Musicals.

[Sally Durant Plummer]

Posted: 2/1/15 at 9:33pm

Also, perhaps After Eight is upset that Sondheim is generally more well thought of then Jerry Herman (and more well known, people not related to theatre know who Sondheim is but no one knows who wrote Hello, Dolly!).

It is interesting that After Eight much more closely resembles a Sondheim character (which he detests) than a Herman character. I suspect they would not spend a fraction of their time thinking and arguing about things they disliked.

Updated On: 2/1/15 at 09:33 PM

[Fantod]

Posted: 2/1/15 at 9:44pm

WHAT!!!??? Jerry Herman is one of the most well known composers of theatre working today. I don't think a single thing Sondheim has written aside from West Side Story is as well known as Hello, Dolly! And anyone who doesn't know who Herman is is doing themselves a disservice.

And, to set the record straight, Jerry Herman thinks very highly of Sondheim's work, calling him a genius in several interviews, though it doesn't work vice versa.

[Sally Durant Plummer]

Posted: 2/1/15 at 9:52pm

Fantod, I mean by name. If you ask a normal person to name a musical theatre composer they will name either Rodgers and Hammerstein or Sondheim. People may know Hello, Dolly!, Mame, and La Cage but they have no idea who wrote it. In fact, a lot of people think of Hello, Dolly! as that film with Barbra Streisand - not the hit musical that won 10 Tony Awards.

[After Eight]

Posted: 2/1/15 at 9:56pm

"attempting to ruin the quality of Broadway musicals"

"Attempting," you say? Sorry, Charley, but you need to get your tenses --- as well as your senses --- right.

They attempted, and succeeded, long ago.

Alas.

[Fantod]

Posted: 2/1/15 at 10:00pm

I suppose, but I also don't think Sondheim is as recognizable as you think. I went to see Sweeney Todd with my grandmother a while ago and she had no idea who Sondheim was, despite living in New Haven for 30 years and having seen every show that passed through the Shubert during that time. Both my mother and father are casual theatre fans who have no idea who Sondheim is. His name is recognized amongst a certain crowd (mainly New Yorkers) and that's it. He is not as famous as people would like him to be. But then again, that's just my personal experience.

[Sally Durant Plummer]

Posted: 2/1/15 at 10:01pm

Fantod, just look at Facebook. The topic "Jerry Herman" has 1,283 likes. The topic "Stephen Sondheim" has 14,265 likes.
Not to emntion the "Stephen Sondheim (Masterworks Broadway)" topic, which has 61,558 likes.

[Sally Durant Plummer]

Posted: 2/1/15 at 10:02pm

Also, Fantod, as musical theatre fans, I think we forget just how little known Broadway composers are nowadays. In the past, Rodgers and Hammerstein, Kurt Weill, ad many others were household names with a bunch of hits. Today, the common music is mindless pop.

[Fantod]

Posted: 2/1/15 at 10:03pm

Sally, I'm not saying Herman is more recognizable than Sondheim (he isn't), I'm just saying that Rodgers, Hammerstein, Porter, Berlin, Gershwin, and even Bernstein would be way more recognizable to the general public.

[ljay889]

Posted: 2/1/15 at 10:15pm

Let's not forget that Sondheim is one of the few Broadway composers (post Golden Age) to have a major Grammy winning POP hit with "Send in the Clowns."

[Fantod]

Posted: 2/1/15 at 10:26pm

Andrew Lloyd Webber

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 2/1/15 at 10:41pm

The general public, even casual theater fans, just don't know songwriters in general. Even for pop music, they only would know the artist who made any given song popular rather than who wrote it.

The only theater exception I think is Rodgers & Hammerstein because their works are often branded with their names. Other than them it's impossible to say if Herman or Sondheim or Weill or Porter are more well-known.

[Fantod]

Posted: 2/1/15 at 10:42pm

Irving Berlin and Cole Porter are both really famous.

[Mr. Nowack]

Posted: 2/1/15 at 10:57pm

Not in modern mainstream America (anymore). Their songs may be well known but who wrote them are not.

[frontrowcentre2]

Posted: 2/2/15 at 2:28am

I did not see the original (until I was given the DVD of it) but I bought the cast album and the published script when they were released. I was lucky enough to be in New York one weekend in November 1984 and caught the original cast of SUNDAY, the NYCO production of SWEENEY and the revival of PACIFIC Overtures at the Promenade. For me it was fantastic theatre weekend.

PACIFIC OVERTURES fascinated me and when it ended I was wishing it would be done on PBS just so I could see it again. The audience that afternoon was filled with fans who knew they liked the show going in. The reviews had come out a week or so before I saw the production and had been very enthusiastic. The audience that afternoon was packed with fans relishing the chance to see this rarely staged musical. No matter what anyone says nothing will take away the happy memoirs of that weekend in New York.

I don't understand why After 8 jumps in to any chat about Sondheim shows to trash them. It's a really twisted obsession he has. I just bypas his comments. He never says anything new or insightful anyhow.

[Idiot]

Posted: 2/2/15 at 2:46am

The only truth in an opinion, Long After Eight, is that it is yours.