RENT is confirmed to be selectively homophobic- Page 8
RENT is confirmed to be selectively homophobic
#175stop changing the damn thread title
Posted: 11/19/05 at 9:45pm
This is just going around in circles. He isn't going to change his mind.
However, this certainly is creating publicity FOR the film. I imagine people will want to see the film to see what the fuss is all about. Art2---you should know you only hurt your cause by stirring up controversy.
#176stop changing the damn thread title
Posted: 11/19/05 at 9:47pm
no, emcee--art IS right about that in this country. Straight America is ok with hot, lesbian sex. Look at frat parties or Spring Break. Look at straight porn.
"un-hot" lesbians and gay guys are "disgusting" and are a threat to masculinity at large.
#177stop changing the damn thread title
Posted: 11/19/05 at 9:51pm
Okay, noted. But it IS a sweeping generalization. There's plenty of the ideas that two men having sex is extremely attractive, and that lesbians are scary to go around. (Obviously, the generalization is slightly more valid if we're only discussing straight MEN, and leaving straight women out of this). Either way, point taken.
I'd rephrase my post, but it's a lost cause either way.
art2
Stand-by Joined: 8/10/05
#178stop changing the damn thread title
Posted: 11/19/05 at 9:53pmOne poster said earlier that his sister thought the relationship between Angel and Collins was a "buddy" thing. My goodness, if it's obscure as that in the movie then not only is it sterile, it is positively dried to a crisp. It's a straight man's take on gay male sexuality, devoid of the essential component that is included in all the other relationships.
#179stop changing the damn thread title
Posted: 11/19/05 at 9:54pm
Yep, sex. Just sex.
Yet you *admitted* that Rent was about love. Big difference, dude. And one is far, far more legitimate and meaningful than the other, in the grand scheme.
#180stop changing the damn thread title
Posted: 11/19/05 at 9:54pm
Queer as Folk lasted five seasons and ended on its own accord, because a bunch of middle-aged women like watching hot gay guys get it on.
The L Word was cancelled due to bad ratings.
Like a firework unexploded
Wanting life but never knowing how
Wanting life but never knowing how
#181stop changing the damn thread title
Posted: 11/19/05 at 9:54pm
Sure, but they are the minority.
You haven't been in a movie theatre and heard guys cheer on hot girls kissing? But if two guys did, they get all grossed out? That is what happens all across America. That is what the majority of Americans think. That is one of the ills in society that gays and lesbians and women in general have to fight against.
DiamondGirl
Stand-by Joined: 10/1/05
#182stop changing the damn thread title
Posted: 11/19/05 at 9:55pmIn addition to what Em and jrb-actor are saying, I'd like to point out a little more: True, some straight people find the idea of two lesbian girls hot and two gay guys repulsive, but let's face it. My guess is most of the people trying to keep gay marriage out of America don't get hot thinking about two girls. Likewise, most of the guys that do probably aren't protesting to let those two girls get married.
#183stop changing the damn thread title
Posted: 11/19/05 at 9:56pm
And as far as Angel and Collins are concened in that light, jrb, it goes back to the question of what's more important to portray and have it say something -- sex or love?
Rhetorical. 
If you can get people to accept two men in *love* that's going to be a lot more powerful, IMO, than the physical act of sex.
#184stop changing the damn thread title
Posted: 11/19/05 at 10:00pm
yes, but art's fear is that Rent is cowtowing to a nation who wants their fags passionless. Will & Grace--plenty of people watch and laugh at it, but if Will started getting busy, they would turn the TV off.
Some people are middle of the road--fags are ok if they are in drag, giving me a makeover, or not flaunting their sexuality with kissing and passion.
And, do not think that people going into voting booths voting against gay marriage don't turn right around and flip on lesbian porn or get freaky on the dl. The closet can be a sick place.
#185stop changing the damn thread title
Posted: 11/19/05 at 10:01pm
Art. Until you see the movie - your opinions as to how the relationships in the film lack any credibility. The saddest part of your "argument" is that you're "crying" homophobia based on hearsay - not first hand experience.
It's not sterile or toned down at all. Again - I've seen the film. It's definitely obvious they are a couple by several long lingering glances - their scene playing around manhattan, the funeral scene, etc.
Putting a male-male sex scene would be completely fabricating a plot element and would be worse because it would a) undermine their relationship as it was WRITTEN b) be added simply to be gratuitous which is also worse and c) be irrelevent to the story line.
You want to discount the stage production and only talk about the film but you can't here buddy. Because the film version is a pretty darn faithful adaptation.
The only thing you might/could whine about is the cutting of "contact" - which IS a very sexual #.. But you'd have little argument because to include it would probably boost the rating to an R (which would kill a huge audience for the film) and the song isn't all that important to the plot.
Sadly - you're argument is all bark and no bite.
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men" - Willy Wonka
#186stop changing the damn thread title
Posted: 11/19/05 at 10:02pmThere's so much passion in that relationship, though. That's why everyone's saying "see the movie." It's a much more subtle, deep sort of passion, compared to the passion of lust you see in the girls.
Broadway Legend Joined: 12/31/69
#187stop changing the damn thread title
Posted: 11/19/05 at 10:03pm
"One poster said earlier that his sister thought the relationship between Angel and Collins was a "buddy" thing."
OH. MY. GOD.
That is PROOF you don't read or listen.
THAT WAS WILSON, ART. NOT A POSTER. WILSON TOOK HIS SISTER TO SEE THE MOVIE AND SHE CLAIMED THAT ANGEL AND COLLINS SEEMED LIKE FRIENDS AS WELL AS LOVERS.
WHICH, if you actually READ the quote and the interview (which your remark proves you did not), you'd see that he and his sister agreed that this was a GOOD THING. They saw that Angel and Collins' love was based on a deep friendship, life partners, friends who were lovers. And therefore, deeper and more beautiful. NOT that, "oh, they seemed like just friends."
My God. There is NO WAY someone could be this dense.
::headdesk::
Updated On: 11/19/05 at 10:03 PM
#188stop changing the damn thread title
Posted: 11/19/05 at 10:04pm
Personally I find the portrayal of Angel and Collins' relationship to be one of the more honest portrayals of a homosexual male relationship. This coming for my own perspective of course, based on the wonderful gay men in my life.
(Small note - The L Word wasn't cancelled.)
"The theater is my life. I live it. I breathe it. I fondle it till it falls asleep." Jack (Will And Grace)
http://feathah.blogspot.com
#189stop changing the damn thread title
Posted: 11/19/05 at 10:05pmI hear ya--but I must say that if I see the film and they come off like platonic buddies, I'LL be on here decrying the film.
#190stop changing the damn thread title
Posted: 11/19/05 at 10:06pm
Oh, sorry. I thought I heard it was being cancelled this summer. I don't watch the show.
jrb, personally, I don't kiss my platonic buddies, but that's just me.
Like a firework unexploded
Wanting life but never knowing how
Wanting life but never knowing how
#192stop changing the damn thread title
Posted: 11/19/05 at 10:09pm
https://www.broadwayworld.com/viewcolumn.cfm?colid=5961
again - watch the interview with Wilson and Jesse and see the clips of them in the city...
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men" - Willy Wonka
#193stop changing the damn thread title
Posted: 11/19/05 at 10:10pmMaureen is basically a tramp. (I love her, but it's true) She leaves mark for Joanne. She cheated on Mark, she probably cheated on Joanne. The relationship they have IS very sexual. Collins and Angel meet and fall in love. They are the functional, loving couple. I have had relationships like both. BOTH are realistic.
Pretty pretty please don't you ever ever feel like you're less than f**ckin' perfect!
#194stop changing the damn thread title
Posted: 11/19/05 at 10:13pm
I say watch the video because you see first hand the affection between colins and angel as they walk down the street not only holding hands - but affectionately stroking each others hand..
Jesse and Wilson also comment on the direction they were given when creating the roles on stage - and reactions to their roles from the gay community.
"A little nonsense now and then is relished by the wisest men" - Willy Wonka
#195stop changing the damn thread title
Posted: 11/19/05 at 10:14pmUnfortunately, Craig, it's probably useless. Art's liable to say they're lying to save Sony's ass for PR purposes, not to change his mind.
art2
Stand-by Joined: 8/10/05
#196stop changing the damn thread title
Posted: 11/19/05 at 10:22pm
Craig,
You are flopping about trying to construct a rationale for something that is discriminatory. You end up making a fool of yourself by including such enlightening pointers as "they look at each other in a lingering way" or some such. I repeat what I alluded to earlier: Collins and Angel have been placed at the back of the bus when it comes to their sexuality. I don't have any documentary evidence yet but I suspect that Sony stipulated minimal or no male-male eroticism beyond a small kiss in drag.
#197stop changing the damn thread title
Posted: 11/19/05 at 10:25pmI don't have any documentary evidence yet but I suspect that art was dropped on his head as a child.
Like a firework unexploded
Wanting life but never knowing how
Wanting life but never knowing how
#198stop changing the damn thread title
Posted: 11/19/05 at 10:25pmart2--you can expect people to respect you, if you don't give them respect. Your insults to Craig, who is highly intelligent and well read on theatre and film just prove to me what an insidious, hateful child you are. You aren't helping the gay civil rights movement with that behavior either--one fag to another.
#199stop changing the damn thread title
Posted: 11/19/05 at 10:25pm
I don't have any documentary evidence yet
Case in point. Bother us after you think you have evidence.
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