Simulated nudity? They're wearing heavy winter clothes under the sheet. That's not an opinion, that's a fact.
As for Contact being too theatrical- I've thought that since the first script was posted online last year with that number cut. Chris Columbus said they tried to choreograph it for months, but it just fell through.
Why aren't there more protests over Christmas Bells being cut? At least Collins and Angel kissed in that, instead of sitting on opposite sides of the table.
Stand-by Joined: 8/10/05
Tray Butler's comment stands: RENT is a straight man's take on queer sexuality. Play up the female-female, play down the male-male...simple skewing is what it's about. If you want to see base pandering to selective homophobia, this travesty would be a good start.
Collins and Angel *do* smooch in the movie. At least at the end of "I'll Cover You."
My boss said, "Eh, that movie is gonna be garbage!" CONFIRMED! CONFIRMED! THE MOVIE IS GARBAGE! I know becuase one person said so!!!
You are absolutely ridiculous, Art.
See, I think there's a way to make that moment just as stirring and powerful on film as it is onstage.
That's one of those great moments in theatre where you can't help but feel like you are a part of what's going on-which is a big part of the magic of RENT in my opinion. It was the first theatre piece to speak to me so directly. The film for me, was...well...strangely enough-2-dimensional. tee hee
And as far as CONTACT goes...do you not remember the dancers slamming one another up against the grate? they clearly were not in winter clothing. And even if the non-dancers were under a sheet, they are simulating sexual sounds and moves...that's pretty undeniable.
Updated On: 11/20/05 at 12:10 AM
LOL. Tray's OPINION stands. He's formulated one on his experience with the film Art2, as everyone else has said repeatedly - YOUR opinion remains to be validated.
The BEST thing you can do is simply say "this is what TRAY said" Saying what you have said as "fact" and assuming there's an agenda beyond that is merely speculation.
If you want to quote Tray.. not one person here would argue with that. But you aren't/haven't done that. Unless you're Tray - YOUR thoughts are limited to what you've read.
This monologue is fitting... it's fiction tho - from Good Will Hunting
-------------
"So if I asked you about art, you'd probably give me the skinny on every art book ever written. Michelangelo, you know a lot about him. Life's work, political aspirations, him and the pope, sexual orientations, the whole works, right? But I'll bet you can't tell me what it smells like in the Sistine Chapel. You've never actually stood there and looked up at that beautiful ceiling; seen that. If I ask you about women, you'd probably give me a syllabus about your personal favorites. You may have even been laid a few times. But you can't tell me what it feels like to wake up next to a woman and feel truly happy. You're a tough kid. And I'd ask you about war, you'd probably throw Shakespeare at me, right, "once more unto the breach dear friends." But you've never been near one. You've never held your best friend's head in your lap, watch him gasp his last breath looking to you for help. I'd ask you about love, you'd probably quote me a sonnet. But you've never looked at a woman and been totally vulnerable. Known someone that could level you with her eyes, feeling like God put an angel on earth just for you. Who could rescue you from the depths of hell. And you wouldn't know what it's like to be her angel, to have that love for her, be there forever, through anything, through cancer. And you wouldn't know about sleeping sitting up in the hospital room for two months, holding her hand, because the doctors could see in your eyes, that the terms "visiting hours" don't apply to you. You don't know about real loss, 'cause it only occurs when you've loved something more than you love yourself. And I doubt you've ever dared to love anybody that much. And look at you... I don't see an intelligent, confident man... I see a cocky, scared ****less kid. But you're a genius Will. No one denies that. No one could possibly understand the depths of you. But you presume to know everything about me because you saw a painting of mine, and you ripped my ****ing life apart. You're an orphan right?
You think I know the first thing about how hard your life has been, how you feel, who you are, because I read Oliver Twist? Does that encapsulate you? Personally... I don't give a **** about all that, because you know what, I can't learn anything from you, I can't read in some ****in' book. Unless you want to talk about you, who you are. Then I'm fascinated. I'm in. But you don't want to do that do you sport? You're terrified of what you might say. Your move, chief.
------------
In other words - go and experience it for yourself and then talk about it. Until you do - all you're doing is telling us someone else's opinion.
Angels in America made a point to go very theatrical with certain aspects of that movie. it is written into the script that the ropes holding the angel up were to be seen. They were able to take such liberties with that film. RENT just didn't go in that direction. But Contact being cut doesn't really play into Art's argument because EVERYONE was boning. That cut was indiscriminate. Gay, lesbian, straight, masterbatory, it ALL got cut.
I don't know; I thought the way they did the death scene was really powerful in the movie, but to each his own.
First, I have yet to see the film. That being said, my understanding is that the death scene in the movie allows for much more intimacy between the men. Is this true, Em? (Or whomever else has seen the film.)
Masterbatory. Heh. Poor Mark.
*Spoilers*
JerseyGirl, you see Collins and Angel together in a corner seat on the subway. Angels is in Collins' arms, shaking. They're presumably on their way to the hospital. There are several hospital scenes, Collins always by his side. Angel dies in his arms, both in the hospital bed together.
*end spoilers*
Angels in America is a totally different animal -- it's a fantasy, in many ways.
I'm still baffled as to how one random guy's opinion is fact, other than that art would like it to be.
Stand-by Joined: 8/10/05
Craig,
You must be living in noddy land if you think that discussions weren't held in relation to issues pertaining to the visual depiction of the gay male relationship. When it comes to the gay male relationship, RENT has failed the test of inclusion, pure and simple.
Art, WHERE are you getting this???? Are you a Sony exec? If not, you have no idea what you are talking about. And stop trying to attack Craig. We all know you are the mayor of nddy land. I think maybe you need to get laid.
YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE
YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE STAGE SHOW.
YOU KNOW NOTHING.
STOP PRETENDING YOU DO.
Art must be in a land where he was privy to all of these discussions that he knows happened.
Stand-by Joined: 8/10/05
At the end of the day, no matter what you say, the gay male relationship in RENT has been treated with kid gloves. This is the hard fact staring at you from the cold face of reality.
Your metaphors aren't going to change my mind.
At the end of the day...you haven't seen the stage or screen production of RENT. Thus, your arguement is invalid.
Alright, I'll go with Art...
But what if I were to say, Art, that RENT is in effect a childrens film? That it may be an adaptation of the Broadway hit, but that the entire thing was made for a target audiences of teenagers. Thus, all the sex, drug use, and unpleasant things hinted at in the stage production are kept as just hints?
Would the film still be wrong for wearing the gay relationship with kid gloves? Or should it be applauded for displaying a positive gay relationship in a very mainstream film teens can see without their parents? I personally think that is a very beautiful thing. Gay teenagers can find penetration all over the web. But seeing a loving relationshp between gay lovers is much more rare. I think the film will speak to a lot of kids struggling with their sexuality. How many films when you were a teen even touched on the subject?
If anything, I applaud Columbia and Columbus for that much.
Updated On: 11/20/05 at 12:48 AM
I think endless discussions were had about every aspect of the film. How to stage scenes. How to translate the stage show to the screen. How everyone would be costumed. Where to put the lights. How to stay true to Jonathan's vision.
I wouldn't argue that at ALL. I'm not living in noddy land at all. I'm not basing my thoughts and opinions on what I've read. I'm basing my comments on what I've seen with my own two eyes.
To me basing my observations on first hand accounts is more realistic than someone regurgitating someone else's opinion. I'm not the one in noddyland my friend..
Other than you regurgitating Tray's opinion, you've offered little else in way of "evidence". And until you do, I'm afraid most people here aren't going to take you seriously.
That's my advice. Do with it what you want.
p.s. Art. As it appears you seem to be posting this opinion over and over again on various message boards (not just this one everyone) it looks more like you are looking for validation than substantiating your opinion.
Sincerely - how many times do you have to start the same thread on IMDB? Surely one thread is enough. I guess you're hoping that eventually someone will cry out "OMG!!! You're right".
Sadly... I think most people are formulating their own opinions and won't react the way you want simply because you've stated someone else's opinion as your own.
why are you all feeding this thread? You're giving this art thing fuel to keep going........stop posting and let the little mind go away......
He isn't worth it........
Elphaba is right... I call for a threadjack!
Did anyone else eat Chinese for dinner tonight?
OMG! ART, You are RIGHT! Now go away.
I tried the threadjack already. Emcee and I are starting a band called Silver Snail Shredder. Ad_Libbing is writing our lyrics.
Videos