Riedel: PIRATE QUEEN Could be $16 Million Flop

[Yankeefan007]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 9:34am

"Last fall, when "The Pirate Queen" opened in Chicago, it appeared to be blub, blub all the way. Savaged by critics and poisonous word of mouth, the then-$12 million musical looked as if it were headed straight to the bottom of the lake (the city being Chicago, the lake was Michigan rather than Superior).

But rather then, well, give up the ship, Doherty and McColgan threw a chunk of their vast personal fortune (they're said to be among the richest people in Ireland) at "The Pirate Queen," mounting what has become one of the most expensive salvage operations in Broadway history.

"They've poured money into it," says a source, who estimates that the cost of "The Pirate Queen" is now more than $16 million - neck-and-neck with "Mary Poppins" as the most expensive show of the season.""

http://www.nypost.com/seven/03232007/entertainment/theater/arrr_for_rewrite_theater_michael_riedel.htm?page=1

[Popular]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 9:44am

"But, by all accounts, this isn't the same show that opened - and nearly sank - in Chicago.

Whether it will float in New York, however, won't be known until April 5. That's when "The Pirate Queen" will find itself at the mercy of a band of cutthroats more vicious than Blackbeard, Red Beard and Captain Hook: namely, Clive Barnes, Ben Brantley and John Simon."

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 9:45am

That's a weird article.
He actually says nothing.

[Popular]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 9:49am

Exactly, Curtain.

It's more of an advertisement for the show: "Hey guys, the underdog is about to open! Here is the background on why it might not do so well. But then again, it might. We'll wait and see."

[Raviolisun]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 10:11am

For some reason, I'm really pulling for this show.

[BroadwayAbridged]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 10:32am

The first time I read the article, I thought it was a typical Riedel "this show is going to bomb, let's take glee in it".

Then 2/3rds of the way through it changes to "but hey, they spent a lot of time on it. Did they fix it? They could very well have".

Is this MICHAEL Riedel?

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 10:35am

Gil, have you seen The Pirate Queen? If so, well... I think you know what I'm going to ask.


Please?

[TechEverlasting]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 11:07am

I disagree with Riedel's conclusion that it's the New York critics who are going to determine whether or not this show runs. Does anyone here really expect this show to get raves from those guys? If Pirate Queen lasts it will be because of countless tourists and bridge and tunnel folk who will buy full priced tickets based on word of mouth and an interest in the material and Irish dancing.

Stranger things have happened.

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 11:43am

I agree with you on that, Tech. The critics are going to hate this show. At this point, I really feel like that's a given. The people who seem to be liking this show are the ones who aren't familiar with a lot of theatre and are just in it for spectacle. A few friends of mine who saw it, all of whom don't go to the theatre that much, really loved the show.

Now, please, for those of you on the boards who do really like The Pirate Queen, don't think I'm insulting you. I'm making a generalization and generalizations ALWAYS have exceptions. This is just what I've noticed so far.

[BroadwayAbridged]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 11:59am

I haven't seen PQ. I may very well not at all... time's rare these days, and there's too many other things I want to see first.

[Vespertine1228]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 12:04pm

If Hot Feet can last for 2 1/2 months in the Hilton before closing, The Pirate Queen can do at least the same. I'll make sure to see it right after it opens just to make sure though.

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 12:07pm

1. HOT FEET was much cheaper than THE PIRATE QUEEN.

2. Your seeing it right after it opens makes nothing sure.

3. Even if THE PIRATE QUEEN did muster out a 2-3 month run, which wouldn't surprise me, it would still be a flop.

So what's your point?

[AudreyTwoTwo]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 12:13pm

I think that no matter what happens in that theatre it's going to close, cause a lot of things there (recently) haven't opened for long. But I plan to see it in previews.

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 12:56pm

So you're going on the theatre's karma to determine how long it'll be open. Ok.


P.S. Your signature worries me.

[queenbee2]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 12:56pm

I find it so strange on here when people speak of things they know nothing about.

Just as a point of interest, when I went to the show last week I asked the lady at the box office about how ticket sales were going and what the shows advance was. She told me that while they aren't allowed to give out specific numbers, nor did she seem to know them when I pushed a bit, Pirate Queen has the largest advance this theater has ever had. And that includes shows like 42nd Street and Ragtime (I know Ragtime did not recoup, but did run for about two years, no?).

So the comparisons to shows like Hot Feet are really irrelevant, aren't they. I know Earth Wind and Fire were popular in their time, but can you really compare their following in the theater to that of Riverdance, Les Miz and Miss Saigon combined? Whatever you feelings are for the show, you have to understand that like it or not there IS a built in audience for it.

-QB

Personally, I was somewhat shocked that Mr. Reidel wasn't completely negative about the show and stated that it is a completely different show than was in Chicago.

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 12:58pm

"I find it so strange on here when people speak of things they know nothing about."

Well, thank the Almighty that you're here to enlighten us, no?

[keen on kean]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 1:01pm

Isn't the point that failure to recoup is the definition of flop, and with $16 million invested, the likelihood that it will recoup is limited, no matter how long the run?

[munkustrap178]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 1:03pm

Exactly.

THE PIRATE QUEEN could very well run for 3 years and still close a flop. Something doesn't have to close on opening night to be labeled a flop.

[Dover]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 1:15pm

I still think Reidel wants to see it flop -- then he can use all those sinking metaphors again. But I must admit, he's kind of amusing when it's not your impending unemployment that he's taking so much pleasure in. I have a couple friends on PQ, so I certainly don't want to see it (or any show, for that matter) flop, but $16 mil is a lot of money for any show to ever make back, even with a respectable run.

I saw it on Wednesday night, and I thought the direction and physical production were beautiful, the actors were all very good, but the score was derivative. If you've never seen or heard Les Miz or Saigon, it would probably be a lot more enjoyable without that distraction. And some of the lyrics (like many in Saigon, IMHO) are really bland and predictable. But overall, I was entertained, and moved, by the show. I always find it hard to answer the question of "would you pay to see it?" because frankly I don't think anything is worth $111, nor could I afford it if it was, but I would say if you were going to buy a ticket to something, PQ might not be the best show out there, but it wouldn't be a bad choice either.

[Popular]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 1:55pm

A show can be a hit (run a long time, be adored by audiences) but still be considered a flop financially. A show "flopping" doesn't necessarily mean it's a bad show, just as a show being financially successful doesn't mean it's a good show.

WIKIPEDIA:

"Flop-hit, a term coined by American critic Frank Rich in his book The Hot Seat, refers to a theatrical production (often on Broadway, where economics are difficult) that appears to be a hit but turns out to lose money (a "flop.")

The mechanics of a flop-hit are complex. As Rich explains it, in order to produce a play a certain amount of capital must be raised; when the play runs, it has weekly expenses that must be paid by weekly ticket receipts. In order for a play to run it must meet this weekly break-even point, but that initial capital (sometimes over many millions of US$)) is only paid back in weekly bits out of whatever is left over after the expenses are met. Thus a play can run indefinitely and appear to be a runaway hit, but close to a large financial loss for its initial backers.

Some recent Broadway productions that fall into the category of flop-hit are Woman of the Year, Jerome Robbins' Broadway, The Will Rogers Follies, and Sunset Boulevard, the latter of which ran more than two years on Broadway in the mid-90s without paying back any of its more than US$10 million outlay"

[Shakespearean]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 1:57pm

Popular wrote:

Whether it will float in New York, however, won't be known until April 5. That's when "The Pirate Queen" will find itself at the mercy of a band of cutthroats more vicious than Blackbeard, Red Beard and Captain Hook: namely, Clive Barnes, Ben Brantley and John Simon."

More vicious than these boards? I'm be crestfallen if I knew where my crest was. Granted, they may have a few more readers, but some of us make Blackbeard look like an attractive prospect to bring home to mom . Hrm, shirtless pirates... no wait, that's another thread...

OK, seriously, I wrote my review and my second visit didn't change my opinions but they're just that, my opinions and I don't begrudge anyone their opinions on any show. I truly hope to see PQ succeed. The cast is awesome even if the only way I can remember the songs is to put the words from les Mis and Miss Saigon back to them.

I still long for the day when they start converting multiplexes back into theatres because there are too many shows waiting. The problem is that the opinions of the critics do matter to Ma and Pa Oakley out in Lackadolla trying to decide what shows to see on their trip to the big city. I wonder if the ad money isn't better spent on free tickets for concierges and tour bus guides? Think the critics don't have an agenda? Think again? As a Professor once told me, if 95% of the class gets a C, average, the A for excellence actually carries some weight". Some of us still want everyone to get an A but Clive still needs to sell papers.

[theaterdude87]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 1:58pm

It seems to be doing very well in previews. I guess we will wait and see.

[SorryGrateful]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 2:00pm

Actually, just to clear it up, Shakespearean, Popular was quoting from the article, not stating her own opinion.

[CurtainPullDowner]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 2:07pm

Where's Lakadolla?

[mamaleh]

Posted: 3/23/07 at 2:07pm

I've got news for Tech Everlasting: The savvy, frequent theatergoers from the B&T crowd (of which I am one) don't pay full price for tix. We subscribe to the same papering services & discount alerts that you city dwellers do.

Haven't seen PQ yet but have tix for a later date--at a substantial discount, of course. I do wish it the best, especially because I've gotten to know Stephanie Block a bit and she's talented and nice enough to merit a skyrocketing career.