Some questions for the Local 1 guys on this board- Page 2

[Albin]

Posted: 11/14/07 at 12:52pm

Snafu, do all the stagehands live in Manhattan?

As I said in my original post, I understand the cost of living is higher in New York City, but I do believe I could live comfortably there if I grossed 67000 a year.
Updated On: 11/14/07 at 12:52 PM

[BrianS]

Posted: 11/14/07 at 12:55pm

billynj,

Please don't bring the name-calling into this thread. If there are guys making 100k, then link to a source, but just keep this thread focused on facts and figures. Once the name calling started on the other threads, it seemed like the actual information when out the window.

[SNAFU]

Posted: 11/14/07 at 1:11pm

No Albin they don't, but rents and mortgages anywhere within an easy commute to the city are MUCH MUCH higher then that in Buffalo. Believe me, $67,000 a year for anyone who works and lives near NYC is a tight squeeze. Granted elsewhere in the State or country for that matter, if seems like a lot! I am not taking sides on this matter. I just know from working and living here that $67,000 is barely enough for a single person to surrvive on comfortably let alone a family.

Updated On: 11/14/07 at 01:11 PM

[uncageg]

Posted: 11/14/07 at 1:16pm

Before I comment (again!) I will ask a few more questions as they seem to be being answered here on this thread...

Is the center of all of this on the load-ins? When I hear that stagehands are leaving early but getting paid for a full day or that when one stagehand gets paid overtime, the rest do also even if they didn't work overtime, is this for load-ins or also for the run of the show? Also, do the stagehands that are hired for the loadins also work the show's run or are there other stagehands hired for the run?

Updated On: 11/14/07 at 01:16 PM

[bugmenot]

Posted: 11/14/07 at 3:25pm

> Is the center of all of this on the load-ins?

No, it is only one of many areas where the producers have been looking for changes.

> When I hear that stagehands are leaving early but getting paid
> for a full day or that when one stagehand gets paid overtime,
> the rest do also even if they didn't work overtime, is this for

Neither of these bits are factual, so I think you may be misunderstanding what you've been reading. We generally work on a basis of "calls". Depending on when that "call" is held, it is either a four hour call or an eight hour call (there are a few exceptions I won't go into -- 1 hour calls, a special type of 2-hour call, etc) or a "show call". Depending on when in the production process or run of the show the call is held, there may be only one employee on the call, or there may be dozens. During any four or eight hour call, all of the employees on that call work the full four or eight hours (though if they run out of work for us to do, we may be dismissed early). We don't get paid when we're sitting at home (how I wish we did). A "show call" ends when the curtain comes in at the end of the show. One of the disputes in this is that the producers have sought to redefine when the show call ends, now they want it to end, for instance, at 11PM rather than when the curtain comes in, and do things like have us set up the next day's show, thus reducing most of the show crew's work week pay by 8 hours. That works out to about a 20% cut in gross pay for each week during the run of the show. And that is one of the things the producers implemented on us last month.

If you're an Equity member, imagine this scenario: you've been a chorus member on a show that's a year or two into its run. The show ends at 10:15. One day, the Producers come to you and say "from now on, we're doing either a brush-up vocal rehearsal or dance rehearsal, after every single show, until 11PM, and you'll be getting no additional pay for it, and this is to avoid paying you for weekly rehearsals during the days". How well would that go over with the cast?

> Also, do the stagehands that are hired for the loadins also
> work the show's run or are there other stagehands hired for the
> run?

Three will be there for the run, for sure. The head carpenter, the head electrician, and the head prop person. Other than that, it depends on the show. Those three are the only "guaranteed" positions.

Updated On: 11/14/07 at 03:25 PM

[uncageg]

Posted: 11/14/07 at 3:36pm

I didn't misunderstand what i read, I just wanted to know if what i read was true.

So are you saying that they want you to work a longer "call" time with the same pay? Sweeping that hour "call" time iread about into the regular work time? (Does that make sense?!) And I suspect t hat when you say "when the curtain comes in" you mean the end of the evening's performance. The final curtain.

Updated On: 11/14/07 at 03:36 PM

[Fosse76]

Posted: 11/14/07 at 3:48pm

"Nurses/doctors, stagehands, TV show writers, trash collectors I understand their jobs are vital and need to be taken care of. Stop the madness and accommodate them!

All of whom belong to unions. As for someone elses comment about $67,000 being enough...they are NOT arguing for pay increases...they are simply fighting for their right to work. And that is ONLY if they work the full year...which most don't. As I said in another post, who would you rather determine how many stagehands are needed to SAFELY load-in a show and run it: stagehands or the producers? I would rather have more stagehands than necessary than less, and you know that the producers would hire less than what is needed to do it. I wouldn't want to be on stage when a spotlight comes crashing down because a stagehand was overworked because there weren't enough of them to do the job.

[bugmenot]

Posted: 11/14/07 at 3:52pm

> So are you saying that they want you to work a longer "call"
> time
> with the same pay? Sweeping that hour "call" time iread about
> into the regular work time? (Does that make sense?!) And I

Yes, you got it. But that is only ONE of many issues -- there are a whole pile of them.

> suspect t hat when you say "when the curtain comes in" you mean
> the end of the evening's performance. The final curtain.

correct. The actors go home, the musicians go home, the ushers go home...they want us to keep working until 11. Not the final curtain. Until 11.

[uncageg]

Posted: 11/14/07 at 3:55pm

Well not knowing everything, I am tending, now to sway towards the side of the stagehands. I was in the middle on this. As I have posted in other threads, I am bothered by the producers' "warchest". I had no idea I was paying a surcharge for the past few years for this. I really want to know where that money is going.

Updated On: 11/14/07 at 03:55 PM

[Mooo]

Posted: 11/14/07 at 6:59pm

"Okay so here is my question and I know there are people on here who do not like what I have to say about all this but I just want to know --

If you do 3-4 months with Pirate Queen (for example) why are you not allowed to work the rest of the months? I do believe that there are shows opening and closing all the time so logistically you could go from the closing of The Pirate Queen to another show. Is this not correct?"

I hesitate to answer your question because you tend to ask questions when you really don't want the answer but here it goes anyway.

People tend to stay with their theater so when your show closes you probably have to wait for the next show to open at the theater you work at. Since Broadway is busier than ever these days (I guess because the producers are losing soooo much money!) you probably won't have to wait too long for the next show to load-in. There are always shows waiting for a theater to open up.

It's possible to shift to another show but it's not like you just walk into another theater and get the job. It helps to know a lot of people. If a department head has to choose between someone he has worked with before and someone he hasn't he's going to hire the person he knows. It also helps the department heads to have people on the crew that know the specifics of each theater since every house is different.

I'll now leave it to you to tear this up and come up with your next reason why the producers are perfect and we're fat greedy pigs.

[me2]

Posted: 11/14/07 at 7:29pm

This is some good information. Thanks for giving it to us. Some of the union publications are myred in vague wording that reflecting emotional appeals rather than logical ones, which makes it easy to side with the producers. Your info is very much appreciated!
Broadway Blog: Wicked: The Grimmerie

[uncageg]

Posted: 11/14/07 at 8:10pm

I second that the information is very helpful and explained so it can be understood and I thank those answering the questions and I thank especially for not being nasty to those of us who feel we may be asking a silly question.

You just explained something else I didn't know. I was under the impression that stagehands moved around from theater to theater. So here is another question. I have heard that stagehands can get jobs at the Met and Radio city. Do those two venues use the same staff or is these places where stagehands, such as those who worked on "Pirate Queen" possibly go for work until another show goes into the theater they usually work at?

[Mooo]

Posted: 11/14/07 at 8:59pm

I work in another theater though I won't say which one. We are all in the same union and can work on Broadway, Radio City, Lincoln Center, Madison Square Garden, television studios and various other venues. I could quit my job today and move to Broadway but it would be hard to make all of the contacts I would need to make enough money on Broadway for quite a while.
Regardless of what is being reported by some, Broadway pay isn't great considering our cost of living here. You really have to work a ton of hours in several different theaters usually to support a family. Local 1 members usually have a preference as to what type of theater they like to work in. They are all different in several different ways. One example is most people would think I am crazy if they heard how many hours I have to work in a week in my venue. I don't see much of my family.
p.s. before people attack I'm not complaining.

[uncageg]

Posted: 11/14/07 at 9:13pm

Well I know the cost of living there is high and for those who are saying that even 90,000 is too much, I say try doing that with a family and kids. I was going to relocate back to NYC 2 years ago but could not accept the job offer because of the salary. It was under 45,000 and I want to live in the city. My friend pays 1,200 a month for a small studio apt. And he said that was a deal for the area he lives in. It is not cheap. These people need to take into account the rent, food, bills (Phone, Cell phone, Heat/air) and then money for entertainment. And if you have a family, there are more costs with kids.

[UnionMade]

Posted: 11/14/07 at 9:42pm

I love that this thread has stayed cordial and informative. All recent questions have been very well answered. I have been doing my best to find answers to questions on this board while working the picket lines. To be honest I did not have every answer and am only willing to give answers to things I believe I can truthfully answer.
I wanted to add a little info that I found today. I was talking with one of the Broadway Technical Supervisors today. A Technical Supervisor is hired by the producers and is in charge of setting calls during load-ins/outs and to put it basically to keep the flow and efficiency of the process moving. We were talking about the new minimum hiring numbers that the League is proposing. He was using a rather small load-in for a straight play as an example. He told me that there is no way he can get the show loaded in, in the time frame the producers want with the new minimum numbers.

[BrianS]

Posted: 11/15/07 at 1:06am

I have learned more from the Local One guys in this thread about what your issues are than everywhere else put together.

When I originally posted this, I really was siding with the producers based on what I had read elsewhere. The only "voice" I heard from Local One was that press conference that seemed more political than informative.

You guys on this thread are the first I've seen to get that specific about issues so thanks for that. You've definitely moved me tmuch closer to your side on this issue and I really hope that you reach a fair agreement for everybody this weekend so we can all go back to normal.

[rgaywrites]

Posted: 11/15/07 at 3:00am

This is all very interesting, but I will say that while $67,000 is a lot of money, many of you are underestimating the cost of living in NYC. I would say its far more than 150% the cost of living in, say, Buffalo. Not only are rents more expensive, so is everything else. You simply cannot compare a NYC salary with a salary in a smaller city. Its not the same thing.

There are plenty of people who survive in NYC on far less than $67,000, but that doesn't mean its a good thing and who wants to just get by?

[roadguy]

Posted: 11/15/07 at 5:32am

BrianS,

So a broaday load cost between $1.5 and $2 million.. fine.. if a stagehand makes a salary(we are paid hourly, so salary is already BS from the League), I'm gonna say $250,000 a year, because that's the highest BS number I've seen so far.. A load in takes say 4 weeks to complete. $250,000 / 48 weeks(I'm gonna leave 4 weeks for vacation) = roughly $5208.33 a week. DAMN, why don't follow a stagehand home one time and tell me if they live in a penthouse in Manahattan, because with over 5k a week, there shouldn't be any problem. Back to my point. 1 hand, according to this logic, makes $5200 a week during load in, takes 4 weeks to perform so he makes $20800 per 4 week load in. Problem is there's 70-80 guys on the call setting up this show. SO 70 guys times $20800 per load in = 1.4 million dollars. you say a load in cost between 1.5 and 2 million, that leaves about 600,000 for other costs related to a load in. SPecialty tools required to install a show, materials to install a show, trucks to transport gear from shops to the theatres, wages for truck drivers, wages for security/doorman, rental of the theatre for the 4 weeks, utilities for the theatre(don't think the theatre owners pay for electricity and water do you??), i'm sure i'm forgetting plenty of other costs....

If you had an idea about what takes place and what costs there are related to a load in you would understand that the numbers just don't add up.


"Right now, the view seems to be that the stagehands shut down broadway, that load-ins cost $1.5 to $2 million (a huge part of a shows cost), and that stagehands are getting paid not to work. "
Updated On: 11/15/07 at 05:32 AM

[uncageg]

Posted: 11/15/07 at 11:05am

Roadguy, take out taxes and all the costs of living, I don't think that they have that much left over to buy that penthouse. And I doubt all stagehands are doing back to back load-in's all year.

Updated On: 11/15/07 at 11:05 AM

[singtopher]

Posted: 11/15/07 at 11:40am

Thank you to Brian for starting this highly informative thread for those of us who were in the dark about what was going on. I too was siding heavily with the producers until reading some of this information.

The way I see it is this. There is a difference between doing your job and doing work. You pay a security guard to sit watch on an office building overnight. You hope they never have to do any actual work, but their job is to sit there in case.

[don logan]

Posted: 11/15/07 at 12:09pm

Happy to see people getting informed. Now let's get both sides in a room to resolve this. I'm starting to freak out that my show will close.

[uncageg]

Posted: 11/15/07 at 12:15pm

don logan, they go back to the table this weekend.

[allofmylife]

Posted: 11/15/07 at 1:27pm

In fact, I'll even thank BrianS for starting one of the most interesting and technical questions I've ever seen on this board.

And I'm sorry if I pooped all over you, kid. It's just that, as a member of the WGA, I've been suffering through all sorts of planted questions about MY union on movie boards and I kinda thought you were doing the same. Clearly I was wrong.

I used to work as a stagehand in college at the National Arts Center in Ottawa, Canada, the biggest professional theater in the country (or one of, before FrontRowCentre corects me!) and I can tell you one other learned fact:

If I was an actor, creator, producer or yes, a stagehand, I'd want the guys rigging and lashing the heavy equipment which hangs over my head during each performance and rehearsal to be the best-paid guys in the house. Bar none.

[rgaywrites]

Posted: 11/15/07 at 1:30pm

AllofMyLife, I couldn't agree more. When you look up from the stage and see all those huge set pieces just hanging there between the lights, it is one less thing to worry about to know that it won't fall and kill you.

[BwayInsider]

Posted: 11/15/07 at 4:27pm

Great post with well intentioned answers. However, Bugemenot, I think even you are misinformed as to the position of the producers on the 'show call' consideration. the producers want to have the flexibility to have the local one members perform necessary work during the 'show call' not just show related work. Local one members are not paid by the show, they are paid by the hour so if a show runs from 8-10:35 the stage hands are paid up to 11pm. However, at the close of the show, they are not permitted to do any other work for the remaining 25 minutes until 11. If work is required the stage hands want to be paid another full hour starting at 10pm. That just seems to be unfair.

Furthermore, your use of the actor's rehearsal analogy is flawed in that the actors don't get paid extra for rehearsals. They are contracted to rehearse for 8 hours per week without any extra compensation. Having been in Broadway shows myself, I have always envied the stage hands who were being paid to be in the theater while we rehearsed for no extra compensation. Mind you not all stage hands have much to do during the rehearsal call so there is a lot of soduku and magazine reading going on then.

Updated On: 11/15/07 at 04:27 PM