Sondheim / Bacharach & David

Posted: 2/23/07 at 7:07am

have Sondheim or Bacharach ever commented on each other's work?
i'm so curious what they think of each other.

what do you think they think about each others work?
Updated On: 2/23/07 at 07:07 AM

[Smaxie]

Posted: 2/23/07 at 7:19am

I can't answer about what they think about each other. But there is a tempo marking in the dance music for "The Right Girl" that says "a la Bacharach". Company's "Tick Tock" also has a bit of a Bacharach sound to it. And Jonathan Tunick orchestrated his first Sondheim show (Company) soon after Bacharach's Promises, Promises, so perhaps there is some mutual appreciation between the two composers...

Posted: 2/23/07 at 7:22am

thank you for that info, smaxie!

quite a lot of their music reminds me of the other.
its been something ive been thinking about, & last night it really struck me on THE ROAD YOU DIDNT TAKE...not only is the tempo so Bacharach, the sentiment of the song is as well.

[miss pennywise]

Posted: 2/23/07 at 8:38am

I never really thought of them as comparable...until now. Growing up, I probably listened to them more than any other composers, when I think back. (They were my parents' two faves.)

Promises, Promises actually shares quite a bit with Company.

Posted: 2/23/07 at 9:19am

I like them both, but I have to give Sondheim the edge as he's never appeared in a commercial singing "I hope I never get hit in the rear again!"

[best12bars]

Posted: 2/23/07 at 9:24am

n69n---Well, you can't leave Hal David out of the equation. Bacharach is a music writer only... the bittersweet, defining lyrics you quote are Hal David's. And I think he had as much of an influence over Sondheim's early '70s work (Company & Follies) as Bacharach did.

There is definitely a noticeable influence though. Even "The Ladies Who Lunch" from 1970 sounds like it could have been a classic Bacharach/David "bossa nova" hit single from around 1966.

[sondhead]

Posted: 2/23/07 at 10:55am

Remember, Sondheim didn't write Tick Tock.

And while some of Hal David's lyrics are fine, others sound like this: "I'm afraid my heart isn't very smart."

Love that song though..

[Borstalboy]

Posted: 2/23/07 at 11:02am

There's really no comparison between the two. However, I do think the then-groundbreaking sound and ultimate success of PROMISES, PROMISES paved the way for COMPANY.

[doodlenyc]

Posted: 2/23/07 at 11:08am

I've thought about this as well...I love both composers, and often feel a similarity between Company and PP. It should be said that, Tunick's orchestrations for each would have something to do with that as well, and both scores reflect the pop music of the day as they were both contemporary books.

One of the most amazing people in the theater, I always marvel at Tunick's abilities when I ponder that he orchestrated Company, Follies and Night Music one after another...and he still amazes me.

[Mother's Younger Brother]

Posted: 2/23/07 at 11:22am

Who wrote "Tick Tock?" Was it just Tunick orchestrating Sondheim's exhisting melodies from the show?

[Smaxie]

Posted: 2/23/07 at 11:29am

"Tick Tock" was arranged by David Shire.

Updated On: 2/23/07 at 11:29 AM

Posted: 2/23/07 at 11:31am

i didnt mean to shortchange Hal David!

as Dionne Warwick says, "Hal David's lyrics; you can SPEAK them!""

[bk]

Posted: 2/23/07 at 12:04pm

Jonathan Tunick told me that Bacharach taught him how to do rhythm charts - and the "sound" of Company was absolutely influenced by Promises, Promises, right down to the rhythm section and the pit girls - Promises really deserves the credit as the show that changed the sound of Broadway musicals.

[Kringas]

Posted: 2/23/07 at 12:11pm

I like them both, but I have to give Sondheim the edge as he's never appeared in a commercial singing "I hope I never get hit in the rear again!"

He wasn't in this, but does anyone remember the "Stove Top tonight!" commercial with a jingle to the tune of "Comedy Tonight"?

The only lyrics I remember are

"You can serve four
Or even more
Stove Top with dinner
Always a winner!"

Updated On: 2/23/07 at 12:11 PM

[Mother's Younger Brother]

Posted: 2/23/07 at 12:15pm

Well, one of the reasons I love them both is the "sound" of the orchestrations.

...which is why, no matter how otherwise excellent newer recordings of Company may be, they'll never replace the original.

[sondhead]

Posted: 2/23/07 at 12:50pm

It's so true. Fantastic orchestration.

Anyone else have a serious serious love for pit voices? Theatres today.. such pussies. They always try to work in the pit parts to some ensemble group on stage. Especially in The Wiz. Just do them as they're intended! They're AWESOME!!

Posted: 2/23/07 at 6:40pm

Two of my top composers (well Bacharach/David anyway not so keen on some of his other stuff)

i know at the time many found Promises Promises "overly slick"--the ultimate Dave Merrick machine of a musical but SOndheim obviously saw it I think to get Tunick's orchestrations. the "sound" of the original COmpany is similar in general to Promises-- and techniques like singers in the pit, etc. (And I assume someone noticed Michael Bennett's choreography and hired him...)

Too bad Bacharach hated the experience of doing a Broadway show so much

[otis33]

Posted: 2/23/07 at 6:46pm

I had the opportunity to direct "Back to Bacharach and David" this past summer, and both Hal and Burt came a few times. Burt was really fantastic, and sat backstage with the cast for about 45 minutes the first time he saw the show. He talked a lot about how he has a hard time watching shows with his music, hearing other people play his music, and how he fought to have the Bway revue of his music stopped. Very cool guy. And Hal David's lyric - brilliant!

Posted: 2/23/07 at 6:53pm

Yeah the man is just too much of a perfectionist... WHich is why though David LOVED the Braodway experience Bacharach hated it (it even drove him to get reeally sick, didn't it?) He hated the fact that his songs WOULDN'T sound *exactly* the same night after night, was driven crazy by the fact that a member of the pit could be sick and replaced by someone who had never played the score before, etc etc

E

[otis33]

Posted: 2/23/07 at 7:00pm

We were all dreading Burt coming to see "Back to Bacharach..." because ALL of the songs have new arrangements, and often don't sound anything the original. They're all fantastic arrangements, though. But, we were sure he wouldn't make it past the first few numbers. He said he appreciated to the new take on some of the songs and loved that a new generation was being exposed to them in a fresh way. I don't know, maybe he's loosening up as he gets older.

ps...our piano player was sick to his stomach the few days before Burt came to the show. I've never seen someone sweat so much on stage.

[bk]

Posted: 2/23/07 at 7:18pm

I can only tell you that I did two Bacharach albums (plus the two cut songs from Promises) and he loved all of it, and let me tell you there were definitely some arrangements that were, well, outre, but everything was in the Bacharach spirit, plus I had his guitar player (on his live gigs) on the album. I later did an all instrumental CD with the same guitar player - Grant Geissman, and he loved that, too. Anyone from his generation who wrote pop music was all about getting as many versions as possible recorded.

Posted: 2/24/07 at 12:08am

Not tyring to be snarky as I'm not a regular on here but who's you? :)

[bk]

Posted: 2/24/07 at 1:36am

Me's the man who produced The Burt Bacharach Album, BAcharach: The Instrumental Side, both for Varese Sarabande, and the cut Promises songs were on my albums Lost in Boston 1 and 2.

[otis33]

Posted: 2/24/07 at 2:37am

Very cool. I enjoyed getting to meet him. Sounds like you got to spend much more time with him than we did. I've always been a big fan of his.

[andyf]

Posted: 2/24/07 at 2:58am

I'm surprised no one mentioned "Unworthy of Your Love" yet.

Brilliant.