Staged Right: The Creation of Evita The Musical

[Patti LuPone FANatic]

Posted: 11/5/23 at 4:46pm

Fascinating!  https://youtu.be/wivRS9LHSN0?si=seiZb8P0O3Pmq_Bj

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/5/23 at 5:26pm

Thank you.

Tim Rice and Andrew Lloyd Webber's own political views are abhorrent to me, so I'm not sure I would trust their judgement on Eva Perón anyway. Whatever about politics, there is definitely a misogynist element to this show. Sure, it has a woman as the main character, but it shames and treats her like a prostitute using her body to climb the ladder. Seems a little unfair, seeing as how it was her husband who passed on an STD which killed her. The same one which killed his FIRST wife. His womanizing is not shamed, or even mentioned. Sad.

[Patti LuPone FANatic]

Posted: 11/5/23 at 5:48pm

I was puzzled by Julie Covington's refusal to continue on with the role of Evita. Even when she initially decided to undertake a 1989 Australian production, she backed out at the last minute.  I was surprised that both Patti LuPone and Elaine Paige shared similar "trials" with their alternates.    Both ladies ffaced a media onslaught and obviously had difficulties with the vocal demands of the role.  I had the "experience" of seeing Elena Roger in the second preview of Evita in 2012.  While her acting was okay, her singing was decidedly underwhelming. 

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/5/23 at 6:27pm

I don't think Elaine Paige's voice ever really recovered. Even when she's speaking, it can sound like she has blown her sinuses out.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 2:08pm

Jay Lerner-Z said: "Thank you.

Tim Rice and Andrew Lloyd Webber's own political views are abhorrent to me, so I'm not sure I would trust their judgement on Eva Perón anyway. Whatever about politics, there is definitely a misogynist element to this show. Sure, it has a woman as the main character, but it shames and treats her like a prostitute using her body to climb the ladder. Seems a little unfair, seeing as how it was her husband who passed on an STD which killed her. The same one which killed his FIRST wife. His womanizing is not shamed, or even mentioned. Sad."

Is it me, or do you just hate the British.

And as far as EVITA is concerned, you can't really fault Lloyd Webber and Rice for her characterization, because at that point in time all the information available about Eva Peron was less than flattering but there is quite a bit of truth in that she did what she had to in her quest to get to where she did. 

SANTA Evita is the oxymoron of oxymorons. 

Updated On: 11/6/23 at 02:08 PM

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 2:59pm

It's just you. I do not hate the British.

[CarlosAlberto]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 3:41pm

Jay Lerner-Z said: "It's just you. I do not hate the British."

Ahhh, there it is....

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 4:00pm

There what is?

Let's compare Britain to Downton Abbey. I hate the lords and ladies, but love the servants. Just like Evita herself would.

[BETTY22]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 4:11pm

I remember ALW saying as a white, English man, couldn't write this show today. 

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 5:06pm

Was Evita not white? Spanish speakers are not automatically people of color.

[kdogg36]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 5:11pm

BETTY22 said: "I remember ALW saying as a white, English man, couldn't write this show today."

He said it in an interview earlier this year, but it's not true. Whatever problems Here Lies Love is facing, there is no widespread condemnation of the fact that it was written by white men (I'm sure you can find isolated complaints about it, of course). 

More geographically on the nose, I don't think anyone has condemned LaChiusa for writing book, lyrics, and music for a show about a woman from Argentina.

[chrishuyen]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 5:59pm

Jay Lerner-Z said: "Was Evita not white? Spanish speakers are not automatically people of color."

This is sort of why Hispanic/Latino is considered an ethnicity and not a race, and there's been some back and forth on whether white Latinos count as people of color (a lot of this discussion was regarding Hamilton casting that I saw)

[fosterfan2]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 6:03pm

Jay Lerner-Z said: "Thank you.

Tim Rice and Andrew Lloyd Webber's own political views are abhorrent to me, so I'm not sure I would trust their judgement on Eva Perón anyway. Whatever about politics, there is definitely a misogynist element to this show. Sure, it has a woman as the main character, but it shames and treats her like a prostitute using her body to climb the ladder. Seems a little unfair, seeing as how it was her husband who passed on an STD which killed her. The same one which killed his FIRST wife. His womanizing is not shamed, or even mentioned. Sad."

She died of breast cancer.

 

[ajh]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 6:11pm

I thought she died from cancer of the uterus?

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 6:50pm

My understanding is she died from cervical cancer, brought on by an undiagnosed and untreated STD. Juan Perón's first wife Aurelia died of the same cause in the late 1930s. Very sad. His third wife, Isabel, is still alive to this day. Quite a contrast.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 7:01pm

Chrishuyen, I don't know who gets to decide these things. I remember Penelope Cruz being celebrated as a person of color recently. It was news to her. She's Spanish, from Spain, in Europe. They don't regard their population as people of color... but Americans seem to. Strange.

Updated On: 11/6/23 at 07:01 PM

[Patti LuPone FANatic]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 7:05pm

If people could pivot back to the featured players.. Elaine.. Patti...all that.  It would be much appreciated.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 7:17pm

Sorry, sometimes I can get carried away by conversation.

Returning to the subject, I have more appreciation for Madonna's performance than I used to. Patti and Elaine's portrayal ,under the direction of Hal Prince, was too overly dynamic and all-conquering. Madonna showed the more human side, and I'm glad she ignored Alan Parker's direction in that regard.

[John Adams]

Posted: 11/6/23 at 9:02pm

Jay Lerner-Z said: "Was Evita not white? Spanish speakers are not automatically people of color."

Evita's lineage is Basque (the region along the northern border of Spain and southern France)
Argentina is largely a population made up of Italian and German immigrants. IMO, "European" describes the population more so than "Hispanic".
Argentines don't speak Spanish. They speak Castellano (not to be confused with Spanish Castilian). Castellano utilizes the archaic vosotros form of speech. Accents fall on different syllables. For example, if you want to say, "Leave me be!" in Spanish, you would say, "DEjame" (with the accent on the first syllable). In Castellano, you would say, deJAme vos" (with the accent on the second syllable).
Another fun fact: "che" is not a person's name. It's a vocative expression similar to, "buddy", "man", "gurl", etc. It's mostly used only in Argentina (very few other SA countries) and unlike other Hispanic words, it's neither masculine nor feminine. "Che" can be used to capture the attention of both men and women, equally.
Ernesto "Che" Guevara earned the nickname due to his fondness for, and over-abundant use of the expression.
Another fun fact: After Evita's death, Peron's third wife, Isabel, became the first female president of any country following Peron's death in 1974.
I was a foreign exchange student to Argentina in 1975. Isabel Peron was president while I was living there. There were *many* comparisons made between Isabel and Evita, both positive and negative.
I discovered the white concept album for Evita while browsing in a record store shortly after I returned to the US. I was both very surprised that it existed ...and also disappointed.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/7/23 at 12:40pm

That's interesting. I think they tried to christen her "Isabelita" at the time, hoping to recapture the magic of Eva. It didn't work.

Che Guevara had Irish ancestry, his father was a Lynch. The founder of the Argentine navy was also Irish. The current Pope is from Argentina, his parents were Italian.

[BuddyStarr]

Posted: 11/7/23 at 4:50pm

Just caught this last night as I was going down a YouTube hole. Very interesting episode and up to date to include the recent “revival”.

[Ke3]

Posted: 11/8/23 at 11:01pm

Jay Lerner-Z said: "Sorry, sometimes I can get carried away by conversation.

Returning to the subject, I have more appreciation for Madonna's performance than I used to. Patti and Elaine's portrayal ,under the direction of Hal Prince, was too overly dynamic and all-conquering. Madonna showed the more human side, and I'm glad she ignored Alan Parker's direction in that regard."

Evita is the only role I've ever found Madonna convincing in. It's not a well directed movie but she delivers.

[Jay Lerner-Z]

Posted: 11/12/23 at 7:04pm

What did you not like about Alan Parker's direction? I loved it. He made a movie, not a screen version of the stage show. Which is always good. Cinematic. Expansive. Not like Susan Stroman's Producers movie. Not awful and completely clueless about musical potency like Tom Hooper.