Student Expeled from art school for quoting Sweeney Todd- Page 2

[BroadwayPenguin2]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 6:01pm

Find your local NBC website and email the story in. They're amazing.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 6:24pm

I have to agree, contact the local media. Seriously. These days, schools are so hyper about everything, they need more pressure than one high school student appealing their (absurd, uninformed) decision. With Sweeney Todd now showing at 1600 theaters across the country, there's no excuse for ignorance on their part and they need to be called on it. Email Stephen Sondheim and get him to co-sign the appeal if need be. Dreamworks would probably love the free publicity as well.

[uncageg]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 6:33pm

Again, I don't think it matters that the movie is out. They will look at the lyrics alone. With a lot of the school shootings, and I live in Denver, the lyrics were posted on the nightly news. Most of the lyrics are dark in Sweeney. It would turn into a thing of why was he drawn to such lyrics, etc, etc. Just my thoughts.

[winston89]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 6:39pm

Let me bask for a second that someone has worse spelling then I. Cape, lemmie tell you something. If there is someone bad out there with bad spelling or whatever. There is bound to be someone out there with worse spelling.

I think you should appeal to the school and tell them what the lyrics were from. If it is an arts school and they realize that they are from Sweeney Todd then they might think of things differently.

As for the girlfriend grabbing the lyrics. You can say that I was writing them down in my personal diary and she had no right to get in the middle of it. However, then the qustion in rubettle might be then why were you writing it in the first place during english class instead of paying attention to what was going on.

The whole idea of schools getting out of hand is true and it is one that bothers me very much. My friend really loves hip hop and rap. He had his personal laptop opened and was listining to his Itunes with headphones on during lunch. He forgot to take the Itunes off the network and everyone was able to see that he had rap/hip hop on his computer. The school didn't like the fact that he was listining to these kinds of songs and that he was spredding them all across the student body. First off, the heads of the school have to realize that a majority of teens in high schools listen to hip hop/rap which do talk about sex drugs and the like.

[purpleprince101]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 6:49pm

Call Tappy Philips with 7 on your side =)

[Lisatwin-2]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 7:21pm

Back in the stone ages when I was in High School, a guy (a real rocker type), was writing the lyrics to Queens Bohemian Rhapsody on his PeeChee (boy that ages me!)...
Mama,just killed a man,
Put a gun against his head,
Pulled my trigger,now hes dead,
Mama,life had just begun,
But now Ive gone and thrown it all away-
Mama ooo,
Didnt mean to make you cry-
If Im not back again this time tomorrow-
Carry on,carry on,as if nothing really matters-

The teacher looked over his shoulder as he was writing it, freaked out and he was also kicked out, until further review and got back in. Seems like all you would have to do is prove to TPTB it was just lyrics.

[dramaparoxysm23]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 7:28pm

Appeal, definitely. I understand that they're being cautious, but that's just ridiculous.

[winston89]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 7:44pm

My brother's middle school had a project where everyone had to create thier own country/land and make up laws for it. My brother who was a bit of a trouble maker back in those days asked if he could do Hell. The teacher said no. So the loophole he found was creating " Heck." The school brought my parents in to talk to him and was worried that because he created Heck as place of choice that he was a worsheped the devil.

My parents just rolled thier eyes and laughed because the school was clearly over reacting to what was nothing. But, the school couldn't figure out why they didn't see this to be as giant an issue the school did.

Keep in mind that this was in the mid 90's before 9/11 or anything like that.

I just think that schools are always over reacting to things that turn out to not be a big deal at all. I feel that they think that they have the best interst of the kid at heart but in reality they are worried about a lawsuit and thus trying to work on saving thier own asses. But, that is just my two cents.

[supportivemom]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 7:52pm

My son got a referral in middle school for quoting American Pie. "say my name bitch". That quote was actually written on his referral. I was laughing so hard and so were all of his other teachers. I mean, what can you say at this point? He went to a performing arts middle school. Anyway, good luck with your situation. If I was your mom, I would definitely put up a good fight! mom

[Minotaurx]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 8:09pm

Part of growing up is making mistakes and learning from them.
I am sure that you are a good person and meant no real harm to any person in your school. However, you are only looking at this situation from your perspective, and how it affects you and your life.
The school is responsible for the safety and welfare of many people. You may not have created the lyrics, but you chose to write them. If I were in charge of the school, my fear would be that you are expressing your feelings through the words of the lyrics. Why chose those lyrics? Why weren't you wriiting the lyrics "oh what a beautiful morning" or "the hills are alive with the sound of music." You didn't write those lyrics because that wasn't your mood. Your mood expressed "they all deserve to die."
Like it or not, our society has become increasingly violent. Acts of violence in public schools happen....they are not fantasies. Your school had to make an assessment of your behavior and come to the best decision.
Think of it this way. What if you were in a school auditorium and you decided to loudly sing a different set of Sweeny lyrics. "City on fire. Fire! Fire!" The auditorium panics and people push to the exits. Students are trampled. When it's over, you explain, I wasn't shouting FIRE, I was merely singing Sweeney Todd. I didn't mean anything by it.

Words have power. Words have meaning. Enough said.

[orangeskittles]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 9:47pm

You can't use the freedom of speech/shouting fire excuse when it's the written word, in someone's personal journal. If the original poster had spray-painted it on the wall at school, then it would be a legitimate argument, but at is, it holds no weight.

It's also incredibly petty to fault her for writing Sweeney Todd as opposed to The Sound of Music, as if her song preference suggests she has those feelings and is using the song to express them. I get random lines of songs stuck in my head all the time, that if spoken aloud would sound racist, sexist, homophobic and much more. That doesn't mean I am any of those things, or that I'm in a racist "mood". It means I have a song stuck in my head.

[Dover]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 10:23pm

One of the things you learn growing up is that school authorities have no interest in context when it comes to punishing kids for something that's perceived as wrong. It's not right, but it's an educational experience -- you learn by making mistakes how to protect your own [posterior].

When I was in 7th grade the girl who sat next to me in English class for some reason asked me what a swastika was. I gave a brief summary of Nazism and the association of the symbol with anti-Semitism, in what I perceived as an opportunity to educate a classmate about an important part of world history. So she had never seen one, and asked what it looked like. So I very lightly drew one in the corner of my paper, and then erased it. Obviously not well enough, because I then got a talking-to from the teacher asking why I was drawing swastikas. I was lucky to be the best-behaved, highest-scoring student in the school, and she believed my explanation of how it got there, but still sternly explained to me that it's not OK to draw that symbol no matter what the reason. I can only imagine had I instead been known as a trouble-maker or just somehow not in the teacher's favor, I would have been sent to the principal or worse.

What I learned from that is that it's not about whether you were doing something wrong, it's about whether it LOOKS like you were doing something wrong.

[dramaparoxysm23]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 10:42pm

If I were in charge of the school, my fear would be that you are expressing your feelings through the words of the lyrics. Why chose those lyrics?

I write lyrics down because I happen to have that particular show or song in my head that day. When I write the lyrics to Lovely Ladies, it's not because I'm considering prostitution - I just have Les Miserables in my head.

[myManCape]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 10:59pm

Anyone feel like there’s a little more to this story then we’ve been told?

[logan0215]

Posted: 12/26/07 at 11:51pm

I do! I do!

A. Why was your EX girlfriend sitting with you while you were writing in your private journal?

B. How did she grab and read it right after you were writing those specific lyrics?

C. If you were writing the lyrics to Epiphany minus the Lovett dialogue, I would be spooked too. You honestly didn't doctor the lyrics at all?

I'm sorry, if in your meeting you mentioned at all that they were direct quotes from a lyric I'm sure the school wouldn't have acted to rash.

There had to either be some kind of provocation or you must have not just written those lyrics as you've stated.

[JasonM12480]

Posted: 12/27/07 at 12:05am

Think about the lyrics from a teacher's standpoint...

"His throat was there beneath my hand..."
Ok, who's throat do you want to cut?

"I had him."
Who did you have?

"There's a hole in the world like a great black pit, and the vermin of the world inhabit it"
Are we angry at the world??

"We all deserve to die."
Oh my - mass killings?

"I want you bleeders."
'Nough said.

I don't really need to go on - after the Columbine shootings, the Virginia Tech massacre - ANY indication that a student may have some sort of thoughts towards violence is cause for concern. I don't care if the lyrics DO come from a musical. The teacher and school may not know that. And the story is about a homicidal barber who kills people. So, as much as I personally love Sondheim and his masterworks, I have to side with the school and say that I understand why they took action. Is it a bit much? Sure. Did you need to be expelled? No. But, you made the choice to write those lyrics, and not pay attention in class - therefore, you have to accept responsibility for your actions.

Next time, write something like lyrics to "If I Loved You", or "Climb Every Mountain." Something light and frothy :)

[MerMaggieGalinda]

Posted: 12/27/07 at 12:10am

I think the school really should have considered the history of the student before expelling him. If he had a history of destructive behavior and depression, than I would understand them taking offense to the lyrics. But if they only looked at the words without a thought than that was very irresponsible of them.

[winston89]

Posted: 12/27/07 at 1:16am

The general thought process of most public schools is this. That regardless of the kind of studnet the kid is there is a chance for each and every one to go a bit loony.

And, they tend to read WAY to much into things sometimes. For most people, saying I was listing to the Sweeny Todd sountrack on my ipod this morning on my way to school. And I got that song stuck in my from that. That might be true. ( Notice I am using the lisiting to it on your Ipod thing as an example. Not saying you were.) But, they get convinced that there MUST be more to it then that.

I think that pbulic schools tend to get themselves into a fit when there isn't need for one. They start to ask qustion after qustion about the given incident that they start to scare themselves.

I go to a middle school/high school ( all under one roof) where they undrstand that many of the studnets that currently go there came from rough backrounds so they are understanding. But, most schools aren't

[SpellingBeeFan4Ever]

Posted: 12/27/07 at 10:46am

A while ago (I regret this 100 percent) I called someone an ffing jew after they were making fun of me (they were NOT jewish s it wasn't too offensive) and the teacher heard me mumble it and they gave me an inschool. Then on my refferal it said "called student f*@#ing jew."

[postergirl]

Posted: 12/27/07 at 11:05am

Oh gosh, hardly offensive at all if they weren't Jewish.

Posted: 12/27/07 at 11:39am

Yeah, if he wasn't Jewish they could only say you were Anti-Semitic, foul mouthed and stupid.

[PalJoey]

Posted: 12/27/07 at 12:19pm

I don't believe a word of this story. Every word of it is a lie, including the misspellings.

[jake6970]

Posted: 12/27/07 at 12:30pm

Spellingbeefan forever- so you think it would be ok to call some an effin f*g if they weren't gay? You should have gotten more than an inschool.

[allofmylife]

Posted: 12/27/07 at 4:41pm

PalJoey is probably right. Most of if not all of this is bull.

However...

If it isn't, I suggest you contact the American Civil Liberties Union. There is an office in most towns. They spend a great deal of time fighting heavy-handed school districts. Even if they can't help, they may suggest someone who will.

[Annas_Priest]

Posted: 12/27/07 at 5:53pm

I am sorry PalJoey that you do not beleive my story, but it is 100% true. I wish I could make this stuff up.

I have retyped the story a little but clearer,

and maybe this can spread some better light on the matter.

I was writting down the lyrics to the song Epiphany from the musical SWEENEY TODD in a notebook.

Elizabeth, my ex-girlfriend had been telling her friends for a month that she was looking for a reason to get me sent home.

So, Looking over my shoulder, she read's the notebook.

She took the notebook to the head of student life, and told him that I was making a death threat to her, and the rest of the campus.

The next thing I know, I am in the director of student services office, and I am being accused of witting a "death threat" to my ex-girlfriend, and the rest of the school.

I explained to them calmly what I was doing. I had my iPod alarm clock on shuffle, and I was woken up to the song. It was still stuck in my head. And I thought that they understood.

So, they told me that they where going to send me home until Sunday (This happened on a Wednesday), and It was going to be all excused absentees, and my future at the school was not in jeopardy at all.

Then Friday night, they call and tell me I am expelled, for a death threat.

They had my "trial" without me there to defend myself. I could not present my story, only Elizabeth could.


That, my friends, Is the full story