The Legit Musical Theatre Sound Today

[Soaring29]

Posted: 7/4/15 at 2:31pm

As a more classically inclined singer, I frequently look up articles about classical technique, vocal anatomy, and the state of the legit style on Broadway today, so it was no surprise when I came across this thread from way back in 2006: https://forum.broadwayworld.com/readmessage.php?thread=907060&page=1.  In a nut shell, the thread talks about how legit singing was disappearing from Broadway and also about how that is connected with singing technique, particularly for males who are  all (regardless of whether or not you're a baritone or a tenor) are  largely expected to sing very high notes that some felt are unreasonable and also how power belting and the pop sound is taking over for purely commercial reasons.  I'm interested in your guy's opinion on how the state of legit singing/pop singing  has changed in the past 10 years  and if you think there is a place for both.  And if any of the users who commented on the post are still out there, I'd love to know how are your thoughts from then to now.  

Updated On: 7/4/15 at 02:31 PM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/4/15 at 4:11pm

The best way to understand the state of singing in musical theatre over the last decade is to look at the Tony Award nominees over that frame. What you will clearly see is an increasingly smaller minority of shows that would cast anyone who reads as "musical theatre." And if you look at the new shows folks are excited about for the upcoming season, you'll see the same thing, to an even more pronounced degree. 

There will remain a place for old-fashioned singers as long as there are revivals being done and a few composers still working in the musical theatre style. But if you are asking the question strategically, I would recommend being able to hide your more traditional sound, if you can.

[Phillypinto]

Posted: 7/4/15 at 4:29pm

no dont listen to him!!!

DO NOT CHANGE A THING ABOUT YOUR SOUND!! The reason why we don't get that many composers writing classical music is because there aren't many people singing that way who do musicals. Most people just belt now because thats what Broadway is mostly made up of, but if you have a more classic sound STICK WITH IT!! Composers WILL write for you're voice if you're a Kelli (Bridges of Madison County), Audra (Ragtime, 110 in the shade, Marie Christine), or a Kristin (a little classical in Wicked). A lot of broadway choruses still have a legit sound to them. People like Laura Osnes (The Bandstand, Somewhere In Time) and Rebecca Luker (Little Dancer) have a legit sound, and composers will write accordingly. 

Updated On: 7/4/15 at 04:29 PM

[broadwaybabywannabe2]

Posted: 7/4/15 at 4:42pm

i love the "MUSICAL THEATRE VOICE"...what i do not like are the small stage bands that back up most new shows...with a very few exceptions... most pit orchestras are small these days due to budget reasons i gather...and this has greatly effected the sound you hear especially when they record the soundtrack...go back ten years and you still had a full sounding orchestra to most musicals and the music sounded glorious...

 

that's my rant on this!...:)

[JustBe23]

Posted: 7/4/15 at 4:53pm

Whooooah, that's super wrong, phillypinto. There's less "legit" singing because the music of today doesn't really jive with that particular stylistic mode, and theater has always reflected popular music styles.

As for the training of tenors/baritones/the rest singing stuff out of their natural ranges, that's more result than cause. Power ballads are the thing nowadays, and unfortunately very few of those power ballads stay below an Ab, making them unsingable for a lot of baritones, particularly the actor-firsts.

But speaking as a singer, we should be able to adapt our voices to most given styles. Check any good musical theater school and you'll see them putting their kids through classical and pop and rock and jazz and new theater and golden age styles because everything is on Broadway nowadays. Saying "don't change your sound" is inviting laziness.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/4/15 at 5:02pm

"The reason why we don't get that many composers writing classical music is because there aren't many people singing that way who do musicals."

First of all, I don't know any composers writing classical music for the Broadway stage.

Second, composers (at least the good ones) write the music that speaks to them, and they write for themselves, not for specific people who they want to be in their show. that is one of the best formulas for writing a terribly bad show I have ever heard. Do you think Sara Bareilles would write music for people who "sing that way" if they were available to perform it? Lin-Manuel Miranda? Sheryl Crow? Duncan Sheik? etc etc You are talking nonsense gurl.

Finally, any well-trained singer can sing across a broad spectrum. But at every EPA, casting directors will tell you how ridiculous it is when people come in singing like they just stepped out of The Sound of Music to audition for a contemporary musical. 

Now if you are only interested in performing in revivals or those new shows that are channeling a past era, that's great. Nothing wrong with that. But if you are a young actor trying to break into the business and you can only sing "legit," you should understand that you are severely limiting your opportunities.

Listen to whosoever you want. I have a funny feeling more people will listen to me than pinto.

[Elfuhbuh]

Posted: 7/4/15 at 5:08pm

I dislike the term "legit singing." It makes it sound as if the more modern and contemporary singers of Broadway today are untalented or just plain not worthy of being called real singers, when really they're just making their voices match up with the kind of music that many popular shows require nowadays.

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/4/15 at 5:35pm

elfuhbuh, I agree, although obviously we both know it is used to refer to a specific style. But your point is taken. I usually refer to it as "musical theatre singing, " but that too has bad implications. Of course the irony of using the term "real" is that those very same singers (Audra included) are regularly disparaged by opera singers.

[Phillypinto]

Posted: 7/4/15 at 5:39pm

LOL okay Hogan. So singers should just try to "hide your more traditional sound." Because thats a really great thing to do.

BULLSH*T.

A lot of composers WANT to write for the person who is going to be singing their music. For example, Kelli O'hara in the Bridges of Madison County. 

LOL Hogan. For your information. A lot of opera singers dive into different genres nowadays. They do not "disparage" other singers just because they are not singing opera. That is the biggest stereotype i have ever heard.

[Phillypinto]

Posted: 7/4/15 at 5:46pm

"composers write the music that speaks to them, and they write for themselves, not for specific people who they want to be in their show. that is one of the best formulas for writing a terribly bad show I have ever heard."

Composers wrote FOR Ethel Merman in the golden age of broadway jesus christ!!

im not saying composers are just going to write music that they don't like. But there are a TON of composers who WILL wrote FOR the person singing the music. (Jeanine Tesori, JRB, ALW, Sondheim, even ****ing Cyndi Lauper for crying out loud)

[Call_me_jorge]

Posted: 7/4/15 at 5:51pm

My voice teacher was telling me how Broadway is becoming more and more contemporary and he was saying how upset that The Lyric opera in Chicago is having to take time out of their year to produce a show that's non operetic and that was like people say legit musical theatre. It shows that classical shows are becoming like operas in terms of their fate. Opera are dieing out and now classical shows are also dieing out. It's said especially for me, because I'm a baritone, but I have such a hard time with the high notes. I can sing up a high f sharp I believe. I don't remember.

[Phillypinto]

Posted: 7/4/15 at 6:00pm

"Finally, any well-trained singer can sing across a broad spectrum."

right, because Renee Fleming, one of the best singers in the world, can sing ****ing defying gravity right? You don't understand. As someone who is operatic, we can't sing much else. The technique of singing is like no other. Every other genre of music is pretty much belted out after that (jazz, hip hop, rap, country, pop) I am making it my goal to create new operatic roles on broadway, and composers WILL write for me. 

You can also belt as a baritone jorge. And i don't think the classic broadway shows will ever die lol.The reason why opera is dying right now is because there aren't many people writing good operas anymore. We need people to write new operas with fresh new stories to be told. 

 

[JustBe23]

Posted: 7/4/15 at 6:16pm

""Finally, any well-trained singer can sing across a broad spectrum."
right, because Renee Fleming, one of the best singers in the world, can sing ****ing defying gravity right? You don't understand. As someone who is operatic, we can't sing much else. The technique of singing is like no other. Every other genre of music is pretty much belted out after that (jazz, hip hop, rap, country, pop) I am making it my goal to create new operatic roles on broadway, and composers WILL write for me. 
You can also belt as a baritone jorge. And i don't think the classic broadway shows will ever die lol.The reason why opera is dying right now is because there aren't many people writing good operas anymore. We need people to write new operas with fresh new stories to be told. 
 "

Philly, you're wrong. I'm getting my graduate in vocal performance (classical) right now, and everything that I've been hired to do at a regional level since I was a teenager was contemporary. Technique is technique. All that changes is your vowel shaping and your use of chest in your upper register. Look up Morgan James if you need a solid example, but you are wrong.

[Phillypinto]

Posted: 7/4/15 at 6:39pm

 "Philly, you're wrong. I'm getting my graduate in vocal performance (classical) right now, and everything that I've been hired to do at a regional level since I was a teenager was contemporary. Technique is technique. All that changes is your vowel shaping and your use of chest in your upper register. Look up Morgan James if you need a solid example, but you are wrong."

whaaat are you saying?????? the belting technique and classical technique are completely different so i have noooo idea where you got your info from. 

Updated On: 7/4/15 at 06:39 PM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/4/15 at 6:41pm

Pinto, who knew you were operatic? You never cease to amaze. I wish you luck. As I said above, I would never step on anyone's ambitions, but the OP appeared to be asking for strategic advice and I gave accurate and factual input. Feel free to follow your own dream, but be aware that it is based on a lot of misconceptions. You may be able to find a composer to write an operatic musical just for you. But you should be prepared to sing it into a mirror, or maybe in some church basement in Summit, NJ, as I do not think it is likely you or your composer will be working on Broadway anytime soon. 

[Phillypinto]

Posted: 7/4/15 at 6:46pm

How is that based on a lot of misconceptions? PLEASE enlighten me. Hogan, you have no idea who i am. I am not just a little kid thats hoping maybe broadway some day. It WILL happen as I am VERY ambitious, VERY motivated, and VERY determined, and nobody is going to stop me. Its easy for you to say that now, but i WILL be a star one day

Updated On: 7/4/15 at 06:46 PM

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/4/15 at 7:11pm

Pinto, I'm not trying to trample on your ambitions but I am offering valuable guidance toward an awareness of reality. There is a pretty big chasm between what you seem to want and the nature of the Broadway musical. Broadway is, as you presumably are aware, mostly a commercial enterprise that succeeds by attracting audiences. And today's audiences are mostly not interested in opera (which has a hard time succeeding even in the non-profit world) or old school musical theatre.

Broadway is a form of popular entertainment. Now I have a great interest in theatre that is not and will never be popular, but that's something that I find on Broadway only once in a blue moon. And even then not usually in musicals.

So to be clear, I am not telling you not to do what interests you. Give it your all. But sometimes it is prudent to appreciate where what you are interested in fits in the greater scheme of things. 

It's called expectations management.

Updated On: 7/4/15 at 07:11 PM

[Fantod]

Posted: 7/4/15 at 7:33pm

I have an operatic style voice that goes all the way down to a B, so I'm a pretty heavy bass. I personally like the classical style of singing as well, and I actually had to stop performing in musicals because my voice became so low that even the lowest roles weren't in my range. I really dislike the poppy sound of today's male singers. The second that Jeremy Jordan sang Losing My Mind I lost hope that the theatre would regress back into what it was. But theatre is always changing, so there's no real point in fighting it. But I just want to complain more that Jeremy Jordan sang Losing My Mind. Like, what an awful choice to sing. I might as well sing I'm Still Here because I guess anything goes nowadays!

 

And pinto, if you ever make it to a Broadway stage in an acting capacity I will eat my hat.

[Showface]

Posted: 7/4/15 at 7:41pm

You know how there is an "Alto's Lament"?

There should be a Bass/Baritone one

Updated On: 7/4/15 at 07:41 PM

[Ado Annie D'Ysquith]

Posted: 7/4/15 at 8:09pm

I also try not to call it "legit" singing. Maybe I am biased as a "jazzy" mezzo, but I think we have problems of our own. In the R+H era, people with my kind of voice never got to play the pretty girl, or the ingenue. We were automatically second bananas and/or comic relief. Don't get me wrong, I absolutely LOVE those roles, but it doesn't say much for our ability to have "above the title" potential, so to speak. Therefore, I think more modern musicals (and several Mermanesque revivals) have got it right in their tendency to give brassier singers the potential to play leading ladies. I think a comic, non-ingenue soprano is always a fun twist. (It is for this reason, incidentally, that Judy Kaye to me is one of the best performers of all time...she nails every voice/character type combination you could think of.)

[JustBe23]

Posted: 7/4/15 at 9:27pm

" "Philly, you're wrong. I'm getting my graduate in vocal performance (classical) right now, and everything that I've been hired to do at a regional level since I was a teenager was contemporary. Technique is technique. All that changes is your vowel shaping and your use of chest in your upper register. Look up Morgan James if you need a solid example, but you are wrong."
whaaat are you saying?????? the belting technique and classical technique are completely different so i have noooo idea where you got your info from. "

Years of training and experience. You're wrong, philly. If you are as ambitious and determined and motivated as you say you are (and by the way, and I don't mean this to discourage you, you are one of hundreds if not thousands who go to the city every year proclaiming exactly that) then you need to start studying and figuring this stuff out now.

But back to the subject - as far as the word "legit" goes, I think people are confusing legit with classical. Classical is classical, legit is... kind of an umbrella term we lend to mix-y, vibrato-y singing. Part of a Painting from Edges and One Last Prayer from Republic are goo examples of  contemporary legit pieces. We use the term legit because they're pure technique - not that pop music can't be, but the limitations of most rock songs are such that vowels can't be totally open and your airflow can't be as free as it would be otherwise. Contemporary styles were created and largely fostered by the untrained, so technique needs to be repurposed if you don't want to go in sounding like a confused opera singer. Calling a song legit is simply saying that it needs a sense of line, even vibrato, balanced breath pressure, etc. Not a judgement, just an observation.

Updated On: 7/4/15 at 09:27 PM

[Phillypinto]

Posted: 7/4/15 at 9:35pm

Yeah i get that Hogan. I think its also important to point out though that there are many shows that are rooted in opera though that are very successful. Phantom being one of them, and Sweeney Todd being another.

"And pinto, if you ever make it to a Broadway stage in an acting capacity I will eat my hat."

what do you mean?

and JustBe23, YOU are wrong.

[Soaring29]

Posted: 7/4/15 at 9:36pm

I  do agree that singing different styles is very important today in broadway and singers should be able to do anything.  It's easier said then done though.   I have to start working on pop songs in my voice lessons and I know it'll be challenging. But that's  why we sing after all.  

That being said,  it is my main goal to work at Lincoln Center in  a golden age musical or  in  a more classical show like Light In The Piazza  or on Broadway in a revival of a Golden Age show.  So I have no intention of not doing legit repertoire   because the reality is my voice is much more suited to legit singing.  

I do wish that more composers would write shows like Bridges Of Madison County where the score is still contemporary, but has a classical sound to it. I would love to sing in shows like that. 

 

 

[Phillypinto]

Posted: 7/4/15 at 9:40pm

Yeah!! Or like Phantom where its mostly classical singing with contemporary orchestrations. I love that sound!!

[HogansHero]

Posted: 7/4/15 at 10:26pm

Pinto,

If you look back to the first item in this thread, you'll see it asked about the last 10 years. And then you give Phantom and Sweeney as examples. 

If you want to limit yourself to that sort of work, fine. Just understand that once mommy and daddy have cut you loose, making a living may loom large for you. And even if you have a trust fund to live off of forever, most performers would rather work onstage rather than sit around waiting for the roulette wheel to land on their number. My sense is that Soaring is interested in the best path to maximize the chances of finding gainful employment in the business. Now I know plenty of people who want to do only what they want to do, and some actually pull it off. But I also know plenty who get dispirited when they see that they are waiting tables and some of their college friends are up on stage every night. But the choice is yours;I just offer that you may rue the day that you followed a path that foreclosed your future options. Who would I offer you as a role model? Michael Cerveris, who has been able to negotiate everything from Tommy and Hedwig to Sweeney and now Bruce. Not shabby.

And soaring, it's great to love LCT but that's a pretty crowded audition room you are trying to bust into, and it is worth remembering too that composers like JRB aren't writing hits.